The Sportster and Buell Motorcycle Forum - The XLFORUM®
 

Go Back   The Sportster and Buell Motorcycle Forum - The XLFORUM® > SPORTSTER MOTORCYCLE FORUM > Sportster Motorcycle Era Specific and Model Specific > Frame Mount EVO Sportster Talk (1986-2003 models)
XLF Blogs XLF Arcade XLF Disclaimer/Privacy Statement/Terms Of Use

Active Threads
0 HOW BIG? Mikuni on a 1250 kit?
Last Post: aswracing
Posted On: 1 Minute Ago
Replies: 32
Views: 636
0 1972 Build thread please subscribe
Last Post: Gold Member
Posted On: 6 Minutes Ago
Replies: 68
Views: 3,993
0 "S" model specific Q&A
Last Post: Hippysmack
Posted On: 22 Minutes Ago
Replies: 1,991
Views: 405,372
0 Official XL Forum Random Image Thread (NO NUDITY!)
Last Post: Graywolf
Posted On: 28 Minutes Ago
Replies: 47,749
Views: 7,649,034
0 Current projects (2 of them anyway)
Last Post: Iron Mike
Posted On: 28 Minutes Ago
Replies: 9
Views: 156
0 Highway cruise speed
Last Post: lespaul6
Posted On: 34 Minutes Ago
Replies: 14
Views: 961
0 Adjusting Drive Belt While On A Lift
Last Post: Folkie
Posted On: 40 Minutes Ago
Replies: 4
Views: 91
0 N65C or N65A
Last Post: lespaul6
Posted On: 45 Minutes Ago
Replies: 17
Views: 1,103
0 Tappet blocks and tappets
Last Post: Scott
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 24
Views: 784
0 Real Horse Power Difference in Head Treatments
Last Post: Highly-Dangerous
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 35
Views: 567
0 Turbo Iron 883
Last Post: Ghostdog
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 41
Views: 1,916
0 Chinese S&S carbs
Last Post: Steve9
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 58
Views: 2,652
12 Crankcase breathing?
Last Post: DJCBlue
Posted On: 2 Hours Ago
Replies: 3
Views: 78
0 Hammer 1250 kit with fp3
Last Post: Pagey
Posted On: 2 Hours Ago
Replies: 4
Views: 716
0 Keep & Kill
Last Post: Crusty
Posted On: 2 Hours Ago
Replies: 17,519
Views: 1,014,453
0 ....1
Last Post: Graywolf
Posted On: 2 Hours Ago
Replies: 5,569
Views: 324,068
0 Sportster Fork Upgrade
Last Post: Redbeard2
Posted On: 3 Hours Ago
Replies: 67
Views: 15,846
0 Dual Speedo/Tach Gauge Mount Failure
Last Post: IXL2Relax
Posted On: 3 Hours Ago
Replies: 8
Views: 219
0 Hottie of the day, no nudity.
Last Post: Stairman
Posted On: 4 Hours Ago
Replies: 20,074
Views: 2,045,701
0 Do you use a bike cover?
Last Post: Old Rocker
Posted On: 6 Hours Ago
Replies: 24
Views: 6,822
0 Rear sets?
Last Post: bordens
Posted On: 6 Hours Ago
Replies: 30
Views: 11,718
0 Hardtail 01 883C conversation.
Last Post: Vic8028
Posted On: 6 Hours Ago
Replies: 17
Views: 1,150
0 What did you do for your sporty Today?
Last Post: cal43
Posted On: 8 Hours Ago
Replies: 6,980
Views: 991,212
0 Ground Up Beginner Build
Last Post: Paul.W
Posted On: 8 Hours Ago
Replies: 6
Views: 203
0 My Rear Master Cylinder Re-build
Last Post: PetesPonies
Posted On: 11 Hours Ago
Replies: 131
Views: 70,061
0 Screamin Eagle slip-ons too loud
Last Post: Blackmagellan
Posted On: 11 Hours Ago
Replies: 24
Views: 10,320
0 Clutch springs
Last Post: BigMek
Posted On: 11 Hours Ago
Replies: 4
Views: 154
0 Coil polarity
Last Post: ryder rick
Posted On: 13 Hours Ago
Replies: 1
Views: 86
0 Snippets
Last Post: sportsterpaul
Posted On: 13 Hours Ago
Replies: 152
Views: 14,239
More...
Members Birthdays
PEISprotster (68), 2009XR (66), Briank (61), bbj6635 (59), Reddog225 (48), larre1973, Irondrake77 (41), picowatt (40), Jeffrey99 (39), namesnick (39)
Reply
 
Share Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 2nd June 2020
MkC MkC is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 33
Sportster/Buell Model: XLH
Sportster/Buell Year: 1986
Other Motorcycle Model: Triumph
Other Motorcycle Year: 2002
Reputation: 10
MkC is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Crank Seal Missing; Is My Engine Damaged?

Bought this 1986 883 last summer; my first Harley, not my first bike. Purchased it from the original owner - a guy with a reputation for taking care of his stuff, including his motorcycles. For years he rode it as his primary transportation and the bike has been through a lot. Sometime in the mid to late 90s he had traded some work and had a guy put in a 1200 kit, along with mild cams.

Fast forward to a few months ago and I've got it in my garage with the engine partially torn down to repair oil leaks at the lifter blocks and primary. While the primary cover was off I decided to replace the stock clutch with a Barnett Scorpion due to a bit of wear on the original clutch hub causing wobble. When I got ready to reinstall the engine sprocket I noticed there was no seal on the crankshaft . I have no idea how long this machine has been running with no seal between the crankcase oil and primary oil, but its got to be a long time.

Question: how much damage is possible? Engine has always run strong with no knocking and the transmission shifts fine. The clutch was slipping under a hard pull which is one reason I upgraded the clutch. Do I need to pull the engine and split the cases to check for damage or just install the missing seal and ride on?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 2nd June 2020
rokytnji's Avatar
rokytnji rokytnji is offline
XL FORUM LIFE MEMBER
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Texas/Mexican Border
Posts: 2,854
Sportster/Buell Model: xls 1000
Sportster/Buell Year: 1980
Sportster/Buell Model #2: xls 1000
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1983
Other Motorcycle Model: 1200 Chopper XL
Other Motorcycle Year: 1990
Reputation: 5236797
rokytnji has a reputation beyond reputerokytnji has a reputation beyond reputerokytnji has a reputation beyond reputerokytnji has a reputation beyond reputerokytnji has a reputation beyond reputerokytnji has a reputation beyond reputerokytnji has a reputation beyond reputerokytnji has a reputation beyond reputerokytnji has a reputation beyond reputerokytnji has a reputation beyond reputerokytnji has a reputation beyond repute
Default

How does the bearing look? Pictures are always good. Harley oil pressure is nothing to brag about compared to plain bearing motors.

This all I have for you. I';m busy.

http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2073932
__________________
*Reference the Sportsterpedia! For Helpful info on your scooter.

Stock sucks.

Traveled to
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 2nd June 2020
juzyHD's Avatar
juzyHD juzyHD is offline
Master Bike Builder
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Europe Slovenia
Posts: 2,001
Sportster/Buell Model: sportster 1200
Sportster/Buell Year: 1986
Reputation: 769370
juzyHD has a reputation beyond reputejuzyHD has a reputation beyond reputejuzyHD has a reputation beyond reputejuzyHD has a reputation beyond reputejuzyHD has a reputation beyond reputejuzyHD has a reputation beyond reputejuzyHD has a reputation beyond reputejuzyHD has a reputation beyond reputejuzyHD has a reputation beyond reputejuzyHD has a reputation beyond reputejuzyHD has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Are you sure that the seal is missing? When the sprocket is off, there is a gap between the seal and crank shaft, cause the sprocket is running in the inner lip of the seal.
I doubt it is possible to run without the seal cause there would be a massive oil migration between the engine and the primary...

Pay atention to the clutch wobble, it can cause a lot of damage if the rotor hits the stator...
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 2nd June 2020
MkC MkC is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 33
Sportster/Buell Model: XLH
Sportster/Buell Year: 1986
Other Motorcycle Model: Triumph
Other Motorcycle Year: 2002
Reputation: 10
MkC is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

100% positive it’s not there. I’ve got photos but not sure how to post them here. I had to remove the crankshaft sprocket in order to remove the clutch. Got ready to reassemble and noticed the shiny ring on the crank sprocket where a seal lip used to ride. That’s when I looked closer at the crankshaft splines and can see the back side of the tapered roller bearing on the crankshaft. Looked up the online parts breakdown and found out there’s supposed to be a seal there that is definitely missing. I never removed it and there isn’t one on the workbench either.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 2nd June 2020
Hippysmack's Avatar
Hippysmack Hippysmack is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,052
Sportster/Buell Model: Xl1250S
Sportster/Buell Year: 98
Other Motorcycle Model: Kawasaki Vulcan 500
Other Motorcycle Year: 95
Reputation: 5839052
Hippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond repute
Default

You need to post pics so we can see what you see.
Find a pic hosting site, sign up, upload the pics to it and post a link to them here.
The engine won't run well without that seal.
Crankcase pressure and primary windage gets all out of whack and oil gets everywhere and you'll know it.
So if the engine had been running without issue, chances are the seal is there.
__________________
Reference the XLFORUM'S Sportsterpedia for additional technical information & advice

In Search of Fuel, Sunshine and a Steady Idle.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 2nd June 2020
juzyHD's Avatar
juzyHD juzyHD is offline
Master Bike Builder
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Europe Slovenia
Posts: 2,001
Sportster/Buell Model: sportster 1200
Sportster/Buell Year: 1986
Reputation: 769370
juzyHD has a reputation beyond reputejuzyHD has a reputation beyond reputejuzyHD has a reputation beyond reputejuzyHD has a reputation beyond reputejuzyHD has a reputation beyond reputejuzyHD has a reputation beyond reputejuzyHD has a reputation beyond reputejuzyHD has a reputation beyond reputejuzyHD has a reputation beyond reputejuzyHD has a reputation beyond reputejuzyHD has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Interesting! I had a bad seal and the oil was migrating from primary to the engine.
I don't know if there are any specific reasons for failure caused by this situation, experts will have to tell..

About the clutch wobble, check sportsterpedia clutch section on this topic and there is a thread http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1971026
for more info...
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 2nd June 2020
MkC MkC is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 33
Sportster/Buell Model: XLH
Sportster/Buell Year: 1986
Other Motorcycle Model: Triumph
Other Motorcycle Year: 2002
Reputation: 10
MkC is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

OK, here's what I see with the crankshaft sprocket removed. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think something is missing here.
[IMG][/IMG]

Here you can see where a seal lip used to ride.
[IMG][/IMG]
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 3rd June 2020
MkC MkC is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 33
Sportster/Buell Model: XLH
Sportster/Buell Year: 1986
Other Motorcycle Model: Triumph
Other Motorcycle Year: 2002
Reputation: 10
MkC is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hippysmack View Post
You need to post pics so we can see what you see.
Find a pic hosting site, sign up, upload the pics to it and post a link to them here.
The engine won't run well without that seal.
Crankcase pressure and primary windage gets all out of whack and oil gets everywhere and you'll know it.
So if the engine had been running without issue, chances are the seal is there.
Photo added. And yes, oil seems to be everywhere. I know there was a leak out of the lifter blocks, but there was a lot of oil coming from the breather hose that the PO routed to the rear of the engine. I thought there was also an oil leak from the old oil lines and possibly from the starter gasket. Really it was hard to tell where all the oil was coming from, so I decided to reseal everything I could without pulling the engine. The areas I know were not leaking were the cylinder base gaskets, the heads, and the engine cases themselves.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 3rd June 2020
Hippysmack's Avatar
Hippysmack Hippysmack is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,052
Sportster/Buell Model: Xl1250S
Sportster/Buell Year: 98
Other Motorcycle Model: Kawasaki Vulcan 500
Other Motorcycle Year: 95
Reputation: 5839052
Hippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond repute
Default

I get it now.
But where did the seal go?
You didn't find it in the primary side??
I'd put it in neutral, set the sprocket on and gently turn the engine over with the plugs out.
See if you can feel any bumps or scratching from the bearings.
Don't know how long it's been like that but the transfer of oil between those bearings leaves less oil elsewhere.
You should have had oil coming out the trans vent as well as the breather.
Once those outlets are compromised, crankcase pressure starts imploding gaskets elsewhere, including possible lifter block gaskets, rocker box gaskets and case seals.
It can pop the oil tank cap off and spit oil from there also.

I don't believe you have to split the cases...unless the bearings don't feel right when you spin it over by hand.
But that issue can increase heat buildup so pay attention to noises.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 3rd June 2020
bustert's Avatar
bustert bustert is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 9,970
Sportster/Buell Model: 1200s
Sportster/Buell Year: 2001
Sportster/Buell Model #2: xlch
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1974
Reputation: 3254109
bustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond repute
Default

do not think you have much to worry about. that bearing is not pressure fed it is a gravity/splash system so there would not be much oil there to begin with.
also, that seal isn't that large. do you see any of the cup of the seal? if it was a rubber coated seal, the stuff could have broken down, seal got loose and spun. there should be some signs or it was left out by previous work.
that drain hole is fairly big so any oil spun off the crank pulley probably was spun off into that drain, not that much space there anyway. however, some oil probably did make it into the primary and out the vent as the engine breathed out of it also.
you could set up a dial indicator and measure axial crank play. also drag a magnet across the bottom of the oil bag.
fly it and watch it.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 15:34.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
XL Forum® - Linson Media LLC