The Sportster and Buell Motorcycle Forum - The XLFORUM®
 

Go Back   The Sportster and Buell Motorcycle Forum - The XLFORUM® > SPORTSTER MOTORCYCLE FORUM > Sportster Motorcycle Motor / Engine > Sportster Motorcycle - Bottom End
XLF Blogs XLF Arcade XLF Disclaimer/Privacy Statement/Terms Of Use

Sportster Motorcycle - Bottom End Cams, Cases, Gears, Flywheel, Piston Conecting Rods, Oil Pump, etc...

Active Threads
0 They Say Three Time's the Charm ...
Last Post: sportsterpaul
Posted On: 1 Minute Ago
Replies: 2
Views: 8
0 In Tank Oil Filter?
Last Post: ryder rick
Posted On: 2 Minutes Ago
Replies: 15
Views: 416
0 You asked for it! "The Tess' Coffee Thread"
Last Post: sportsterpaul
Posted On: 8 Minutes Ago
Replies: 10,472
Views: 765,485
0 2019 East Coast Meet and Greet
Last Post: sportsterpaul
Posted On: 10 Minutes Ago
Replies: 165
Views: 8,525
0 Official XL Forum Random Image Thread (NO NUDITY!)
Last Post: Stairman
Posted On: 21 Minutes Ago
Replies: 42,482
Views: 6,587,635
0 Possible exhaust or intake leak...or something else.
Last Post: maverick31210
Posted On: 25 Minutes Ago
Replies: 7
Views: 196
0 Average age of the Ironhead forum users
Last Post: 83ironman
Posted On: 25 Minutes Ago
Replies: 433
Views: 74,110
3 Making my own exhaust gaskets?
Last Post: Flame__
Posted On: 34 Minutes Ago
Replies: 20
Views: 940
9 weird sound coming from left side ?
Last Post: wedge
Posted On: 35 Minutes Ago
Replies: 11
Views: 272
0 How many helmets?
Last Post: wedge
Posted On: 40 Minutes Ago
Replies: 205
Views: 28,246
5 Jiffy Standing
Last Post: wedge
Posted On: 48 Minutes Ago
Replies: 11
Views: 917
0 Do Loud Pipes in fact save lives?
Last Post: wedge
Posted On: 48 Minutes Ago
Replies: 2,456
Views: 249,099
0 Winter reading........
Last Post: ParrotHead
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 12
Views: 753
0 New H-D Fully Adjustable Piggy Back Shocks And Fully Adjustable Fork Kit
Last Post: Nibelungen
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 41
Views: 11,427
14 DEAR Harley Davidson,
Last Post: ParrotHead
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 6
Views: 475
5 Oil pump pressure
Last Post: Toejam503
Posted On: 3 Hours Ago
Replies: 5
Views: 136
0 Is this 1200R worth $4500?
Last Post: Toejam503
Posted On: 3 Hours Ago
Replies: 12
Views: 289
0 Help needed slip ons vs full system for new 48
Last Post: John Harper
Posted On: 3 Hours Ago
Replies: 3
Views: 70
0 Crusty's Travels
Last Post: sportsterpaul
Posted On: 4 Hours Ago
Replies: 1,897
Views: 206,221
0 What Sort Of Sporty Have You Got?
Last Post: hammer6315
Posted On: 4 Hours Ago
Replies: 1,065
Views: 283,480
0 Vote for Most Sought After Sportster
Last Post: longride
Posted On: 5 Hours Ago
Replies: 324
Views: 66,036
0 Bushing alignment
Last Post: bustert
Posted On: 5 Hours Ago
Replies: 45
Views: 1,441
0 Roads I'd like to ride.
Last Post: Stairman
Posted On: 6 Hours Ago
Replies: 971
Views: 60,241
0 Who's still riding???
Last Post: 1977iron
Posted On: 7 Hours Ago
Replies: 156
Views: 13,231
0 Early Sportster XLCH 900 Dyno Run
Last Post: kmul
Posted On: 7 Hours Ago
Replies: 99
Views: 25,771
0 Iree's late night cafe
Last Post: ~Grind~
Posted On: 8 Hours Ago
Replies: 999
Views: 104,130
0 THE Trainspotting Thread
Last Post: Stairman
Posted On: 9 Hours Ago
Replies: 2,277
Views: 280,505
0 Hottie of the day, no nudity.
Last Post: Stairman
Posted On: 9 Hours Ago
Replies: 9,569
Views: 797,730
0 Vibration During Acceleration
Last Post: harley506d
Posted On: 13 Hours Ago
Replies: 23
Views: 1,460
0 Big Bore '03 883R :)
Last Post: jkinkade
Posted On: 15 Hours Ago
Replies: 20
Views: 695
More...
Members Birthdays
hillclimber (69), burtondl2 (51), Cet (49), hagar71 (48), ShaneWolfe (47), grizdiesel (42), Confused89 (34), RAIDER0372 (33), spamer80 (33), svwannabe
Sponsored Links
Reply
 
Share Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 1 Day Ago
Hippysmack's Avatar
Hippysmack Hippysmack is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 3,529
Sportster/Buell Model: Xl1250S
Sportster/Buell Year: 98
Other Motorcycle Model: Kawasaki Vulcan 500
Other Motorcycle Year: 95
Reputation: 2281464
Hippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond repute
Default

I wouldn't be so sure.

I don't know Bustert, the FSM says there is no need to orient 1, 3 and 4 cam bushings in any specific position of rotation within the gearcase cover bores.

To install #2 bushing in the cover, align slot in bushing to slot in cover boss.
It also says to drill a 5/32" hole through the bushing using the existing hole as a guide.
This is deceiving since the hole runs along with the outside of the bushing instead of into the bushing.

The most logical scenario is the action of the spinning shafts creates the vacuum to pull the oil thru the slot in the bushings.

The extra hole in #2 bore would be for increased cooling for the hottest gear.
This gives 2 sources for vacuum to pull from on that bushing.

CC splash pressure would be given a channel to circulated with the help from the action of the shafts.
__________________
Reference the XLFORUM'S Sportsterpedia for additional technical information & advice

In Search of Fuel, Sunshine and a Steady Idle.

Last edited by Hippysmack; 1 Day Ago at 05:21..
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 1 Day Ago
bustert's Avatar
bustert bustert is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 8,676
Sportster/Buell Model: 1200s
Sportster/Buell Year: 2001
Sportster/Buell Model #2: xlch
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1974
Reputation: 1502279
bustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond repute
Default

got a few minutes before i have to leave.
notice the diff between the bushings, it will become evident.
also of note, look at gear wash in this area, most pronounced.
also of note is that when hd has something working, they usually do not redesign. that said, look how that area changed over the years, hint, reason why it is drained diff.
there is no vacuum in operation.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 1 Day Ago
bustert's Avatar
bustert bustert is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 8,676
Sportster/Buell Model: 1200s
Sportster/Buell Year: 2001
Sportster/Buell Model #2: xlch
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1974
Reputation: 1502279
bustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond repute
Default

well got back but now i have to go change a throttle body and injectors.
i will try and draw something.
you are right in that the manual says that. but the ? was does it matter. it does matter or the factory would follow its own advise. i personally try to follow the factory original setup.
we are dealing with up to .003 clearance so why not make the most of it.
oil film thickness is tied in with rotational speed, load and oil quality or properties and the groove helps spread the oil out for better load capabilities.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 16 Hours Ago
Hippysmack's Avatar
Hippysmack Hippysmack is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 3,529
Sportster/Buell Model: Xl1250S
Sportster/Buell Year: 98
Other Motorcycle Model: Kawasaki Vulcan 500
Other Motorcycle Year: 95
Reputation: 2281464
Hippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Going off the idea of placing the slot away from the load in the cover.
The link you gave earlier says:

"Straight Axial Groove:
Is used when the bearing length exceeds an L/D ratio of 1.5 but stops short of each end by 1/8” to 1/4”.
The groove must be located in the unloaded area."

The slots in these bushings extends the length of the bushing.
The load is the same on the cover bushings as it is in the case bushings.
The difference is the oiling holes don't exist in the case, only the slots are the same.
The case bushings get oil from the CC behind them.
The cover bushings get oil from the drilled holes beside them, plus the extra hole on #2.

The bushing on #2 has no face but still has a dip cut out at the top to allow oil to escape during a face slap with the cam gear.

IHs had a face on the #2 cam and pinion cover bushing.
Yet the slots are in the same place in the cover.

So why did they nix the face on those bushings?

#1 and #3 also had a slice cut out of the face of the bushing.

Looks like the holes are slightly differently place but basically the same.
Left of center, then right of center, then centered later.
I've read this from Dr Dick on slot placement in the cover.
http://xlforum.net/forums/showpost.p...5&postcount=10
But there is more caution there than data... sorry DD but I didn't get the 'why not' out of that.
He just uses his 2 rules of IH ownership to justify the argument of slot position.

1. Never guess.
2. When in doubt, do as the factory did.

I can't find a slot in #2 bushing in those two pics of a 68 and 78 covers.
I've read there is a oil hole drilled into that bushing.

1968


1978


I also cannot find mention of the slots from 59-85 FSMs even though the slots are present.

Last edited by Hippysmack; 14 Hours Ago at 06:52..
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 5 Hours Ago
bustert's Avatar
bustert bustert is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 8,676
Sportster/Buell Model: 1200s
Sportster/Buell Year: 2001
Sportster/Buell Model #2: xlch
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1974
Reputation: 1502279
bustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond repute
Default




1. in the first one, oil fills the blind hole. since the groove which acts as a way to wick the oil through the bushing and to drain the oil is at the top, once the blind hole is filled, new oil is restricted and bleeds out the top since that is where the greatest unloaded area is. the oil becomes stagnate and starts to heat.
2. in the second one, oil enters and rotation drags the oil toward the groove. the blind hole becomes a reservoir of sorts. however, since the shaft is nearing the loaded section, clearance goes down, oil film is in the micro-meters. the oil will have a tendency to wick through the groove.
3. in the third one, the groove is in the thrust load area where clearance is at its lowest. once again, the blind hole will have a tendency to fill up, restricting new oil entry.
4. in the forth one, once again the blind hole becomes a reservoir of sorts. the oil that is dragged around mixes with inlet oil and wicks through the groove.

is the groove really needed? hummm?? the oil will wick through the bushing through the running clearance and probably would provide lubrication and since the cam loading really is that great, they probably would survive at least for awhile. the groove provides a channel to allow full surface lubrication of the cam journal and to help inlet oil migration.

i know the book says something different and it is a personal choice but i will follow the original position.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #46  
Old 5 Hours Ago
bustert's Avatar
bustert bustert is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 8,676
Sportster/Buell Model: 1200s
Sportster/Buell Year: 2001
Sportster/Buell Model #2: xlch
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1974
Reputation: 1502279
bustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond repute
Default

the link to the nat'l bushing page was only to give an idea of the role the grooving plays. it was an illustration and for what application as each would be diff.
yes, bushings changed over the years but the oiling is the same near about. if you remember, the #2 had an oil seal since it protruded the cover and hence the reason not to flood the area. did hd need to redesign, naw, it is still working.
the loading is not equal on both sides. you would be surprised at how much the cams can move. the crankshaft in a car flexes. i do not remember the year but hd did change the angle of the cam followers and this change actually helped in reducing thrust loading, did they change the bushing arrangement, naw, basically the same. as mentioned before, the #2 rides diff in the bushings as it sees multiple thrust loads and probably rides more central than not.

you are 100% right on the c/c side, flywheel wash and diff'l pressure lubes the he$$ out of the bushings as it did when they had torrington needles.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Sponsored Links
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 21:28.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
XL Forum® - Linson Media LLC