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  #41  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
Nibelungen's Avatar
Nibelungen Nibelungen is offline
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It's true Mo.Co. sometimes fails... and send into production lines cheap and crap engine components like,
Specifically for XLs:
-CV carb plastic fuel inlet
-earlier model of plastic oil tank without relief valve
-the infamous clutch spring plate

other components can became an issue only if you change the established equilibrium and pump up your ponies (like the need for a bronze oil pump drive gear etc. etc.)

other components are perfect like they are since the products of many many years of evolution of the same engine...

IDK at what category classify the rocker locker issue
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  #42  
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Interesting thoughts posted above-

Facts-

Hundreds of millions of miles on bikes with Rocker Lockers and not a single reported issue.

Hundreds of bikes with over 100,000 miles with Rocker Lockers and not a single reported issue.

The issue of the noise could be easily fixed at the factory with shoulder bolts...and, in fact, each of us could fix it with shoulder bolts. But those are more costly than the Rocker Lockers.


Kevin
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  #43  
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Sportycus Sportycus is offline
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G'day Kevin,

Please don't get me wrong. I'm not saying in any way that Rocker Lockers are a bad idea. In fact if the stats are as you have listed (note, I am assuming you mean 100,000 miles of having rocker lockers installed, and under all kinds of varying road, traffic, and weather conditions) this is quite impressive. I'll leave it to the well-respected regulars with engine expertise to ease my thoughts.

I'm honestly on the fence with this one. Part of me suggests that this is probably a very long oversight, and the Rocker Lockers look like a great and simple fix, but part of me suggests that there is a genuine engineering reason why MoCo made these clearances as big as they are.

The MoCo could have easily fixed the noise here at virtually zero cost by reducing the tolerances of the drilled holes and shaft notch. They could even release the newer and more improved rocker support plate as a retrofit kit, allowing them to make even more money.
This issue could also be purely a business decision ("that timeless classic old-school traditional Harley tappet noise we know and love").
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  #44  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
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Nibelungen Nibelungen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DK Custom View Post
The issue of the noise could be easily fixed at the factory with shoulder bolts...and, in fact, each of us could fix it with shoulder bolts. But those are more costly than the Rocker Lockers.


Kevin
maybe i'm a dumb guy.... but...
aren't already the rocker bolts with shoulder?
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  #45  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sportycus View Post
G'day Kevin,

Please don't get me wrong. I'm not saying in any way that Rocker Lockers are a bad idea. In fact if the stats are as you have listed (note, I am assuming you mean 100,000 miles of having rocker lockers installed, and under all kinds of varying road, traffic, and weather conditions) this is quite impressive. I'll leave it to the well-respected regulars with engine expertise to ease my thoughts.

I'm honestly on the fence with this one. Part of me suggests that this is probably a very long oversight, and the Rocker Lockers look like a great and simple fix, but part of me suggests that there is a genuine engineering reason why MoCo made these clearances as big as they are.

The MoCo could have easily fixed the noise here at virtually zero cost by reducing the tolerances of the drilled holes and shaft notch. They could even release the newer and more improved rocker support plate as a retrofit kit, allowing them to make even more money.
This issue could also be purely a business decision ("that timeless classic old-school traditional Harley tappet noise we know and love").
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nibelungen View Post
maybe i'm a dumb guy.... but...
aren't already the rocker bolts with shoulder?
Sorry, I was being a bit tongue in cheek about the shoulder bolts.

btw, this addresses both the above posts.

(yes, bikes with well over 100,000 miles after Rocker Lockers installed).

Experiments were done with bolts that had larger, precisely machined, shoulders. These kept the rocker shafts from clanking back and forth against the bolts. However, there were two issues:

1. Much more expensive to machine those than the Rocker Lockers

2. In very much of what HD does, they use very loose tolerances. Not because they are needed, simply because it is easier and less expensive. This is not just in the engine, but on the frame also.

We have seen this over the years, being as we build over 1000 different parts that fit on various areas of the Harley.

When we build a part we have to take into account their variances (loose tolerances) in where they weld a stand-off, for just one example, when we build a part that utilizes said stand-off.

Getting back to the rocker box. Most of the time when using the machined bolts (instead of the Rocker Lockers) everything worked fine. However, a small percentage of the time, when there was not any play between the diameter of the bolt and the diameter of the bolt hole, we were unable to get the rocker box sitting exactly where it should.

Thus, because the Rocker Lockers take into account the cascading effect of loose HD tolerances, And, because they are less expensive than machined bolts, Rocker Locker are the best answer for quieting the ticking that is a result of the rocker shaft banging back and forth against the bolts.

Kevin
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  #46  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DK Custom View Post
In very much of what HD does, they use very loose tolerances. Not because they are needed, simply because it is easier and less expensive. This is not just in the engine, but on the frame also
Oh
It seems not a thing to be proud of... since the price of brand new HDs...
or maybe is all about more reliability at the expense of the performances...
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  #47  
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Mr Dream Merchant Mr Dream Merchant is offline
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Anyone have a video of what the engine sounds like when these are needed?

Last edited by DK Custom; 4 Weeks Ago at 05:16..
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  #48  
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There is another maker that I think is better...its called Rock Out.
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  #49  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Dream Merchant View Post
Anyone have a video of what the engine sounds like when these are needed?
I think it is important to note that no engine needs these. There is nothing detrimental to the engine when it is ticking because of the rocker shafts banging into the bolts.

The only reason they would be "needed" is if the ticking bothers the owner of the bike.

At this LINK there are two videos. The first one has a before and after, beginning at about the 2 minute mark. The second was has a before right at the beginning of the video.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Dream Merchant View Post
There is another maker that I think is better...its called Rock Out.
The other company came after Rocker Lockers, having been started by an ex-partner in Rocker Lockers.

They are the same...it is a simple flared bushing. But the other company does not include an installation tool. But they do include an extra bushing, in case one gets messed up during installation without the tool.


Kevin
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