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  #151  
Old 25th September 2019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge View Post
Please forgive me for stating what you likely will see as obvious.

When you do the adjustment, you are starting out by adjusting the cable to full slack right? Then you are turning the adjusting screw back and forth to find where it comes into contact with the pressure plate. Note that if you turn further at that point, you will introduce slip in the clutch because it will start pulling back on the pressure plate. Then you back it off 1/4 or a tad extra to get the locking nut cover on. Then you finish the adjustment using the cable adjuster, making sure that it starts grabbing slightly before center of lever travel.

Assuming you have already been doing this, then I have no clue what part of the puzzle is missing.
Yes, the cable is with the adjuster to create full slack at the lever and I adjust the nut/screw in the correct manner.
What I said is that I EVEN tried to adjust the nut/screw just slight MORE than needed to have some slip , but I never reached the "slip" situation.

But when you say : " Then you are turning the adjusting screw back and forth to find where it comes into contact with the pressure plate

It's impossible to be "into contact" with pressure plate on an Orange Scorpion 4speed pressure plate.

It's only the adj screw (solid with the pressupre plate) that is connected to the ball&ramp mechanism. SO when the Lever is pulled it (the whole plate) is pulled .
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Last edited by conv90; 25th September 2019 at 15:55..
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  #152  
Old 25th September 2019
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In addition some pics of internal of primary cover.
One of the Ball&Ramp assy with grip lever full released (A is flush with B)
annd the other with lever against the grip A is recessed in relation with B BUT only a pair of millimeters! (Balls are smaller than needed?)

Then 2 pics where you can see that if you adjust "too much" the adjunsting screw you easily reach the pressure plate, the tab holding the ball&ramp assy mechanism.
see the grind action on Press Plate and on Tab holding the ball& Ranp mechanism









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  #153  
Old 27th September 2019
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I would think that once you adjust the slack out with the screw, you come into contact with the pressure plate at that point. If not, I don't see how it could work at all.

So, under normal conditions when the cable is slack, the ramp is able to sit in it's "at rest" position without anything holding it back. Then using the adjusting screw you remove the slack between the throwout bearing and the pressure plate and if you continue turning after removing the slack the pressure plate will start being pulled.

Apparently you found something that is interfering with this action.. I looked at the pictures but I can't quite visualize what is happening, except I see the wear ring on the pressure plate from whatever it is hitting.
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  #154  
Old 27th September 2019
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Oh, I think I see it now. So that third picture (red arrow) shows the obstruction. I assume you will just grind it down a bit for clearance?

The question I have is why is it coming so close to that area? Could you have too many plates in the clutch?
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  #155  
Old 30th September 2019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge View Post
I would think that once you adjust the slack out with the screw, you come into contact with the pressure plate at that point. If not, I don't see how it could work at all.

The only "contact " with the Pressure plate is the adj screw . It works in a axial way without the mechanism is in contact with the pressure plate or the bearing working like thrust face bearing.
Only the screw "pulls" the pressure plate out.
The scheme is for a stock clutch, the only difference is the Scorpion has not the diaphragm spring , it has 6 copression springs




So, under normal conditions when the cable is slack, the ramp is able to sit in it's "at rest" position without anything holding it back. Then using the adjusting screw you remove the slack between the throwout bearing and the pressure plate and if you continue turning after removing the slack the pressure plate will start being pulled.

Apparently you found something that is interfering with this action.. I looked at the pictures but I can't quite visualize what is happening, except I see the wear ring on the pressure plate from whatever it is hitting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge View Post
Oh, I think I see it now. So that third picture (red arrow) shows the obstruction. I assume you will just grind it down a bit for clearance?

The question I have is why is it coming so close to that area? Could you have too many plates in the clutch?
For this reason I made some tests.
I removed One friction and One steel plate, removing so much space to allow the pressure plate to go "OUT" without interfere with the cast mounting tabs of the Ball&Ramp in the primary cover. I made this only to have FOR SURE additional room.
SO 8 friction discs instead of 9. A friction disc and a steel disc is more than 5mm !
This confirmed that I can achieve full disengagement, and I can have the lever starting engage whatever I want (soon , at the middle and even at end of the lever travel), SO the problem is not the little room inside the perimary cover.
BUT the Forward motion or slight drag I feel in 1st gear and lever pulled is the same. It wants to go and I have to use the front brake to stop it to go .

I also changed the Cable just to remove the possibility of "Stretched cable".

At the end I removed the damper dished spring installed between the first littliest friction disc and the first steel disc at the bottom of the hub (reinstalled back the discs removed in the first attempt, so returning with 9 friction discs).
Removed Item 2 on the Barnett Instrutions.
Sincerely I was not positive on this, but iT works!
If from Neutral I put 1st gear it works perfect, no forward mothin or drag.

BUT If I ends to the red traffic light in FIRST or second gear, If I hold the clutch lever I still have some VERY VERY LITTLE LITTLE minimal drag without the real need to apply front brake. Something I can consider OK.

That's really strange.

click on preview to enlarge pics:



Last edited by conv90; 30th September 2019 at 15:18..
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  #156  
Old 3rd October 2019
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UPDATE:
Clutch works good, It's OK. No more forward motion with lever pulled and 1st gear in.
BUT
I discovered now a noise in the primary cover.
There are pieces of something in the primary. I'm away from home, so only tonight or saturday i'll se what happened.
I suspect that the flat ring (where the dished one I removed was sitting on) is broken.
I suspect the item (1) on instructions of Scorpion clutch I posted on the message above.

I'm a stupid because I had the doubt to remove it (along with the dished (2) one). But I decided without thinking too much to not remove it.

(1) it's thin . Thinner than the thickness of the first friction disc . So it's free to move back and forth between the bottom of the hub and the first Steel Disc , so I think that resonance and and vibrations are involved in the breaking.

Last edited by conv90; 3rd October 2019 at 10:47..
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  #157  
Old 3rd October 2019
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At least you are seeing changes happen as you try different things, so that says you are likely looking in the correct area.
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  #158  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
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Update:
Nothing broke in the primary.
I removed so many times the primary cover that the last time I forgot to adjust the the tension pad of the primary chain, so it was totally slack.
I removed the flat steel ring at the base of the hub (along with the already removed dished ring seated on the flat one).
All is correct now, and cluth is working perfect.

But
now Im facing a strange electrical problem (battery/rectifier/charging problem).
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  #159  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
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Quote:
Originally Posted by conv90 View Post
Update:
Nothing broke in the primary.
I removed so many times the primary cover that the last time I forgot to adjust the the tension pad of the primary chain, so it was totally slack.
I removed the flat steel ring at the base of the hub (along with the already removed dished ring seated on the flat one).
All is correct now, and cluth is working perfect.

But
now Im facing a strange electrical problem (battery/rectifier/charging problem).
FYI. When I pull primary covers I do not back the chain adjustment off. On reassembly, just feel below the cover and feed the chain up over the pad. If it has been adjusted good, the adjustment will be right where it belongs.

Could you have damaged the stator or hit wire when the chain was running that loose?
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  #160  
Old 3 Weeks Ago
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I prefer loosing the screw as the pad shoe... If not, i find difficult to reassemble the primary cover. Stator is KO. I doubt I damaged it with latest mods on clutch. BTW here the post:
http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread...04#post5782504
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