The Sportster and Buell Motorcycle Forum - The XLFORUM®
 

Go Back   The Sportster and Buell Motorcycle Forum - The XLFORUM® > SPORTSTER MOTORCYCLE FORUM > Lubrication and Lubricants
XLF Blogs XLF Arcade XLF Disclaimer/Privacy Statement/Terms Of Use

Notices

Lubrication and Lubricants You guessed. Here is where everyone can argue over oil.

Active Threads
0 Mikuni Stuff I've Ignored, Till Now!
Last Post: jordan1200
Posted On: 1 Minute Ago
Replies: 19
Views: 344
0 New England 2018
Last Post: Boudwood
Posted On: 2 Minutes Ago
Replies: 285
Views: 15,698
0 Hi tech bike moving aid
Last Post: Iron Mike
Posted On: 5 Minutes Ago
Replies: 3
Views: 23
0 Relatively Interesting Road Sign
Last Post: Folkie
Posted On: 15 Minutes Ago
Replies: 26
Views: 475
0 Big bore stroker - the beginning of a 10-year long build
Last Post: mrmom9r
Posted On: 16 Minutes Ago
Replies: 813
Views: 74,932
0 You asked for it! "The Tess' Coffee Thread"
Last Post: Flame__
Posted On: 21 Minutes Ago
Replies: 10,360
Views: 733,673
0 Who's still riding???
Last Post: paulc
Posted On: 38 Minutes Ago
Replies: 46
Views: 1,991
0 Metal Polishing
Last Post: bustert
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 41
Views: 1,780
0 Ice tire
Last Post: bustert
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 2
Views: 100
0 touchy feely sissy bar emotions poll
Last Post: mikesova
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 121
Views: 30,753
0 ....1
Last Post: Graywolf
Posted On: 2 Hours Ago
Replies: 4,691
Views: 233,780
0 When Were You Born?
Last Post: Henry007
Posted On: 2 Hours Ago
Replies: 320
Views: 75,585
0 Leather or Denim Vest//Another useless poll
Last Post: Stairman
Posted On: 3 Hours Ago
Replies: 114
Views: 23,266
0 THE Trainspotting Thread
Last Post: Stairman
Posted On: 3 Hours Ago
Replies: 2,171
Views: 252,533
0 Hot Rods, Rat Rods, and Customs.
Last Post: Stairman
Posted On: 3 Hours Ago
Replies: 2,795
Views: 260,091
0 Hottie of the day, no nudity.
Last Post: Stairman
Posted On: 4 Hours Ago
Replies: 8,757
Views: 722,606
0 Lithium battery earthx
Last Post: Tucsonmax1
Posted On: 4 Hours Ago
Replies: 50
Views: 1,966
0 Crusty's Travels
Last Post: SonWon
Posted On: 4 Hours Ago
Replies: 1,695
Views: 181,053
0 My 1978 Ironhead
Last Post: Glamazon
Posted On: 7 Hours Ago
Replies: 3
Views: 252
0 88ci Sport Rod
Last Post: rubine
Posted On: 7 Hours Ago
Replies: 679
Views: 105,053
0 Been gone a while
Last Post: Screw Loose Dan
Posted On: 7 Hours Ago
Replies: 1
Views: 43
0 Mid controls on a Custom
Last Post: kaveebee
Posted On: 8 Hours Ago
Replies: 5
Views: 188
0 Brake shoe removal/installation tool
Last Post: JackPrice53
Posted On: 9 Hours Ago
Replies: 9
Views: 265
0 Another November. . .
Last Post: sportytrace
Posted On: 9 Hours Ago
Replies: 1
Views: 10
0 Patriot Defender whats the next best exhaust?
Last Post: madnss
Posted On: 9 Hours Ago
Replies: 161
Views: 27,395
0 Spokes and dual disc
Last Post: PetesPonies
Posted On: 10 Hours Ago
Replies: 7
Views: 217
0 Value of a Boattail?
Last Post: Harleydave
Posted On: 12 Hours Ago
Replies: 27
Views: 1,316
0 Paper gasket
Last Post: sdsbassist
Posted On: 13 Hours Ago
Replies: 4
Views: 120
0 Quick and probably stupid question
Last Post: IXL2Relax
Posted On: 14 Hours Ago
Replies: 26
Views: 628
0 Lets see your off season builds
Last Post: Tinz
Posted On: 14 Hours Ago
Replies: 1,157
Views: 126,050
More...
Members Birthdays
RISport, Sleeper, Chaoszen (65), wojmc (63), Deicer18 (61), PhilR1957 (61), Bikerchk (61), bblbbl (43), 883Hugger (34)
Sponsored Links
Reply
 
Share Thread Tools Display Modes
  #81  
Old 27th June 2018
shanneba shanneba is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Franklin, Indiana
Posts: 1,404
Sportster/Buell Model: XL1200C
Sportster/Buell Year: 2013
Reputation: 1361431
shanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond repute
Default 5000 miles Red Line 20w-50 HD 5 micron filter

Here is my latest UOA from my 2013 Xl1200C.
30000 miles on the bike, 5000 miles on the oil.

Copper is still high.... I'm thinking rear valve guide.
I do see VEs on the rear cylinder that seem to vary at idle 3-5 %


I ran the 63731-99A HD Premium 5 micron filter this time to compare to the 63805-80A Standard HD and Mobil 1 M1MC-131 filter.

Scroll down in the code window to the particle counts.
First particle count is the HD 63805-80A Standard Sportster filter.
The second and third particle count is the Mobil1 M1MC-131.
The last one is the HD 63731-99A HD Premium 5 micron.

The 5 micron Premium filter did better at 4 and 6 microns than the Standard Sportster filter.
Not as good at 14, 21, 38 and 70 micron.
Maybe the 5 micron Premium filter isn't as "restrictive" as it seems

The next oil change will be using the WIX 57148 filter.
It is rated as 50% at 6 microns and 95% at 20 microns.
(the HD oil filter wrench, 94863-10, doesn't fit the WIX, the filter is 15 flutes and slightly ~2mm smaller diameter)

Code:
Miles on oil	4860	5000	5000	5000	5000
Total miles	10000	15000	20000	25000	30000
Date 	       06/15	02/16	10/16	08/17	06/18
Make up oil	0	0	0	0	0
Oil Brand	R L MC	R L MC	R L MC	R L MC	RL MC
Weight	    20w-50	20w-50	20w-50	20w-50	20w-50
					
Filter	        HD C	HD B	M1MC131	M1MC131	HD 5 mic
					
ALUMINUM	5	3	1	8	2
CHROMIUM	1	0	0	0	0
IRON     	12	8	5	6	4
COPPER	       263	132	75	72	84
LEAD	        6	4	1	1	2
TIN       	27	9	3	3	3
MOLYBDENUM	375	456	403	461	430
NICKEL	        1	1	0	0	0
MANGANESE	0	0	0	0	0
SILVER	        0	0	1	0	0
TITANIUM	0	0	0	0	0
POTASSIUM	11	7	4	1	3
BORON	        48	15	13	23	13
SILICON	        11	10	8	24	28
SODIUM	        11	7	10	7	7
CALCIUM	        2242	2703	2214	2528	2395
MAGNESIUM	156	45	16	12	10
PHOSPHORUS	1540	1676	1516	1703	1648
ZINC     	2046	2315	1811	2177	1980
BARIUM	          3	3	3	3	2
					
SUS @ 210F	96.2	98.8	103.9	99.1	97.1
cSt @ 100C	19.45	20.08	21.26	20.14	19.67
Flashpoint F	430	430	420	410	430
Fuel         %	<0.5	<0.5	<0.5	>0.5	>0.5
Antifreeze %	0	0	0	0	0
Water       %	0	0	0	0	0
Insolubles %	0.2	0.2	tr	0.2	0.1
TBN	        6.2				
					
Particle Count					
					
ISO Code (2)		21/14	18/14	20/15	20/17
NAS 1638 Class		12	10	12	12
ISO Code (3)		24/21/1424/18/1424/20/1524/20/17
SAE AS4059 cpc		12	12	12	12
4 Micron		122237	85538	99920	95886
6 Micron		18446	2430	8597	7971
14 Micron		97	117	269	1139
21 Micron		23	22	36	412
38 Micron		3	2	3	42
70 Micron		0	0	0	2
__________________
2013 XL1200C

Find your Owner's Manual, Wiring Diagram and Parts List here :

https://serviceinfo.harley-davidson....cle/lookupForm
Enter your VIN OR
Use the search - enter year and model

If something doesn't work on your Sportster look here:
SportsterPedia.com
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #82  
Old 28th June 2018
Four Speed Four Speed is offline
Senior Chief Know It All 1st Class
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,160
Sportster/Buell Model: Sportster 883 Hugger
Sportster/Buell Year: 1988
Reputation: 338882
Four Speed has a reputation beyond reputeFour Speed has a reputation beyond reputeFour Speed has a reputation beyond reputeFour Speed has a reputation beyond reputeFour Speed has a reputation beyond reputeFour Speed has a reputation beyond reputeFour Speed has a reputation beyond reputeFour Speed has a reputation beyond reputeFour Speed has a reputation beyond reputeFour Speed has a reputation beyond reputeFour Speed has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Again, very consistent results. Interesting that 20K onwards there is slightly more fuel in the oil, yet the flash point remains impressively high.

On the copper, do you have a bronze oil-pump drive gear installed?
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 28th June 2018
shanneba shanneba is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Franklin, Indiana
Posts: 1,404
Sportster/Buell Model: XL1200C
Sportster/Buell Year: 2013
Reputation: 1361431
shanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Four Speed View Post
Again, very consistent results. Interesting that 20K onwards there is slightly more fuel in the oil, yet the flash point remains impressively high.

On the copper, do you have a bronze oil-pump drive gear installed?
Thanks for pointing that out!

ops, I rechecked my reports and both the 25 and 30K reports are actually also <0.5%. I changed the last post and updated my spreadsheet for next time

The engine is all stock, so it has what ever the stock gear is made out of.

For Alum and Iron I am getting less than half of the "universal averages" wear.

Last edited by shanneba; 28th June 2018 at 16:34..
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 28th June 2018
Four Speed Four Speed is offline
Senior Chief Know It All 1st Class
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,160
Sportster/Buell Model: Sportster 883 Hugger
Sportster/Buell Year: 1988
Reputation: 338882
Four Speed has a reputation beyond reputeFour Speed has a reputation beyond reputeFour Speed has a reputation beyond reputeFour Speed has a reputation beyond reputeFour Speed has a reputation beyond reputeFour Speed has a reputation beyond reputeFour Speed has a reputation beyond reputeFour Speed has a reputation beyond reputeFour Speed has a reputation beyond reputeFour Speed has a reputation beyond reputeFour Speed has a reputation beyond repute
Default

It's still an impressively high flashpoint after 5K!

Maybe the copper is coming off the cam or rocker bearings then? Perhaps an effect of the highly detergent ester oil base.
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 28th June 2018
shanneba shanneba is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Franklin, Indiana
Posts: 1,404
Sportster/Buell Model: XL1200C
Sportster/Buell Year: 2013
Reputation: 1361431
shanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond repute
Default

My 4100 mile run of HD SYN3 had a flash point of 460, it is likely a much better oil than many believe. ParrotHead has had many SYN3 UOAs with a flash point of 440-460 over his 200,000 miles.

I've seen other Red Line UOAs in HD engines with much lower copper wear.
Many of the early UOAs here in this thread also show higher copper values.
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 28th June 2018
Four Speed Four Speed is offline
Senior Chief Know It All 1st Class
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,160
Sportster/Buell Model: Sportster 883 Hugger
Sportster/Buell Year: 1988
Reputation: 338882
Four Speed has a reputation beyond reputeFour Speed has a reputation beyond reputeFour Speed has a reputation beyond reputeFour Speed has a reputation beyond reputeFour Speed has a reputation beyond reputeFour Speed has a reputation beyond reputeFour Speed has a reputation beyond reputeFour Speed has a reputation beyond reputeFour Speed has a reputation beyond reputeFour Speed has a reputation beyond reputeFour Speed has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Interesting. Always good to have real data.
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 30th June 2018
XLXR's Avatar
XLXR XLXR is offline
XL FORUM LIFE MEMBER
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,201
Sportster/Buell Model: XL1200 R
Sportster/Buell Year: 2006
Reputation: 711236
XLXR has a reputation beyond reputeXLXR has a reputation beyond reputeXLXR has a reputation beyond reputeXLXR has a reputation beyond reputeXLXR has a reputation beyond reputeXLXR has a reputation beyond reputeXLXR has a reputation beyond reputeXLXR has a reputation beyond reputeXLXR has a reputation beyond reputeXLXR has a reputation beyond reputeXLXR has a reputation beyond repute
Default

The inconsistency of the number of specific micron sized particles over range of increasing mileage makes me wonder how accurate the tests are, or if that is just normal variation or if the different filters actually make some difference, and I question if knowing those different micron ratings have any real value. How can the number of smaller micron particles go down, but the number of larger sized particles go up in the far right column ?
__________________
Former Ricor test rider for IAS Shocks, Intiminators and Vibranators. Works Dual Rate fork springs, fork brace, Avon Venom X tires, loosen drive belt, and set frame rails level to floor. Read the "7 Pages of Suspension" thread in the Suspension Sticky Index to learn how to fix your suspension.

Last edited by XLXR; 30th June 2018 at 17:21..
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 1st July 2018
Tucsonmax1 Tucsonmax1 is offline
Greasemonkey
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 140
Sportster/Buell Model: Custom 1200
Sportster/Buell Year: 2018
Reputation: 10
Tucsonmax1 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

You should try some of the Automotive options. I have a friend who runs a Purolator 10241. I ran a Bosch Premium 3330 on mine at 500 Miles. Then changed at 1k with the service(Used Bosch again). They're supposed to be rated for 20 Micron
__________________
Tucsonmax1 2018 Sportster 1200 Custom, 2016 Hyundai Tucson SE AWD
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 1 Week Ago
shanneba shanneba is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Franklin, Indiana
Posts: 1,404
Sportster/Buell Model: XL1200C
Sportster/Buell Year: 2013
Reputation: 1361431
shanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Here is the latest UOA from my stock engine at 35,000 miles.
Scroll down in the code window to see the particle counts.

I ran a WIX 57148 5 micron filter this time. It didn't do as well as the Standard Harley Sportster filter.

I am running another one for the next 5000 miles.
I may go back to the Mobil 1 filter next time.

Blackstone Comments:
Copper spiked up to 207 ppm this time, and tin increased with it, suggesting poor wear at a bronze
part. Interestingly, lead didn't even show up this time. Silicon is lower, so we're not sure that's to blame for
the dramatic increase in copper. It is possible that these metals are from something like oxides off the oil
cooler, but when that's the case, copper tends to improve after spiking, but it has been increasing instead.
We suggest checking back in ~3,000 miles to keep an eye on copper. The particle count was 24/22/16.


Code:
+-----------------+----------+----------+----------+----------+-----------+
| Miles on oil    | 5000     | 5000     | 5000     | 5000     | 5000      |
| Total miles     | 15000    | 20000    | 25000    | 30000    | 35000     |
| Date            | 02/20/16 | 10/12/16 | 08/16/17 | 06/18/18 | 10/30/18  |
| Make up oil     | 0        | 0        | 0        | 0        | 0         |
| Oil Brand       | R L MC   | R L MC   | R L MC   | RL MC    | RL MC     |
| Weight          | 20w-50   | 20w-50   | 20w-50   | 20w-50   | 20w-50    |
|                 |          |          |          |          |           |
| Filter          | HD B     | M1MC131  | M1MC131  | HD 5 mic | WIX 51748 |
|                 |          |          |          |          |           |
| ALUMINUM        | 3        | 1        | 8        | 2        | 4         |
| CHROMIUM        | 0        | 0        | 0        | 0        | 0         |
| IRON            | 8        | 5        | 6        | 4        | 5         |
| COPPER          | 132      | 75       | 72       | 84       | 207       |
| LEAD            | 4        | 1        | 1        | 2        | 0         |
| TIN             | 9        | 3        | 3        | 3        | 8         |
| MOLYBDENUM      | 456      | 403      | 461      | 430      | 442       |
| NICKEL          | 1        | 0        | 0        | 0        | 0         |
| MANGANESE       | 0        | 0        | 0        | 0        | 0         |
| SILVER          | 0        | 1        | 0        | 0        | 0         |
| TITANIUM        | 0        | 0        | 0        | 0        | 1         |
| POTASSIUM       | 7        | 4        | 1        | 3        | 3         |
| BORON           | 15       | 13       | 23       | 13       | 16        |
| SILICON         | 10       | 8        | 24       | 28       | 19        |
| SODIUM          | 7        | 10       | 7        | 7        | 9         |
| CALCIUM         | 2703     | 2214     | 2528     | 2395     | 2433      |
| MAGNESIUM       | 45       | 16       | 12       | 10       | 10        |
| PHOSPHORUS      | 1676     | 1516     | 1703     | 1648     | 1691      |
| ZINC            | 2315     | 1811     | 2177     | 1980     | 1979      |
| BARIUM          | 3        | 3        | 3        | 2        | 1         |
|                 |          |          |          |          |           |
| SUS @ 210F      | 98.8     | 103.9    | 99.1     | 97.1     | 99.9      |
| cSt @ 100C      | 20.08    | 21.26    | 20.14    | 19.67    | 20.34     |
| Flashpoint F    | 430      | 420      | 410      | 430      | 425       |
| Fuel         %  | <0.5     | <0.5     | <0.5     | <0.5     | <0.5      |
| Antifreeze %    | 0        | 0        | 0        | 0        | 0         |
| Water       %   | 0        | 0        | 0        | 0        | 0         |
| Insolubles %    | 0.2      | tr       | 0.2      | 0.1      | 0.3       |
| TBN             |          |          |          |          |           |
|                 |          |          |          |          |           |
| Particle Count  |          |          |          |          |           |
| filter          | HD B     | M1MC131  | M1MC131  | HD 5 mic | WIX 51748 |
| ISO Code (2)    | 21/14    | 18/14    | 20/15    | 20/17    | 22/16     |
| NAS 1638 Class  | 12       | 10       | 12       | 12       | 12        |
| ISO Code (3)    | 24/21/14 | 24/18/14 | 24/20/15 | 24/20/17 | 24/22/16  |
| SAE AS4059 cpc  | 12       | 12       | 12       | 12       | 12        |
| 4 Micron        | 122237   | 85538    | 99920    | 95886    | 121960    |
| 6 Micron        | 18446    | 2430     | 8597     | 7971     | 25675     |
| 14 Micron       | 97       | 117      | 269      | 1139     | 485       |
| 21 Micron       | 23       | 22       | 36       | 412      | 96        |
| 38 Micron       | 3        | 2        | 3        | 42       | 14        |
| 70 Micron       | 0        | 0        | 0        | 2        | 3         |
| total particles | 140806   | 88109    | 108825   | 105452   | 148233    |
+-----------------+----------+----------+----------+----------+-----------+
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Sponsored Links
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 16:21.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
XL Forum® - Linson Media LLC