Ironhead Shovster build take2

[Ferrous Head]

I'm really surprised your at 200 PSI and not having problems.

I'm running 210+ on my race engine which is single fire dual plugged but it's running on methanol.

And it's a bear to start. I only do it with starting rollers and I use a truck battery on that. Sometimes two batteries.

In my experience the smaller lead acid batteries fail from vibrations. Luckily, you don't have a vibration problem. Smooth as ...

Gotta think there is some other reason starter isn't sealing. Case not flat there " Starter hitting something ?

Seems like a lot of oil going into catch can. Do you have a filter on the return oil line ?

[brucstoudt]

Originally Posted by billeuze

And the clutch is working perfectly. The little spacers I made solved the slipping clutch problem.

+1 for the +positive results... stay positive,you're doing an awesome job with this creation.

[billeuze]

Originally Posted by Ferrous Head

I'm really surprised your at 200 PSI and not having problems.

I'm running 210+ on my race engine which is single fire dual plugged but it's running on methanol.

And I do have aluminum heads to dissipate more heat

And it's a bear to start. I only do it with starting rollers and I use a truck battery on that. Sometimes two batteries.

In my experience the smaller lead acid batteries fail from vibrations. Luckily, you don't have a vibration problem. Smooth as ...

Yeh, pretty smooth up until 4,000rpm, after that it gets a bit rattly but I pretty much stay under 4,000

Gotta think there is some other reason starter isn't sealing. Case not flat there " Starter hitting something ?

I think the case isn’t flat. I can see where the gasket is compressed and where it isn’t

Seems like a lot of oil going into catch can. Do you have a filter on the return oil line ?

yes. An in-line filter. And yeh, it seems a lot of oil out the breather. Maybe the big washer on the end of my generator shaft isn’t working. What’s that washer called? Anyway it’s not a generator it’s an alternator from saddlebadrail. In Rays instructions he says you can’t install the washer on the end of the shaft. I didn’t see that note when I installed do I did install the washer. It certainly fits on the shaft. But I do question if it’s doing anything useful because a lot of oil is getting past it out the breather

[Ferrous Head]

Washer is called a "slinger". The idea being the oil collects on the washer and gets flung off by centrifugal force before it can go any farther.

You might try running without the filter. It could well be causing enough back pressure to keep the scavenge pump from working effectively. That would allow more oil to pool in the gear-case area and increase the amount getting blown out the breather.

4000 is a pretty fast idle.

Mine sound like a chaff cutter above 6 and the bars double their diameter. It does increase my grin but it also loosens my fillings.

[billeuze]

Hmm, interesting, I could bypass the filter to see if it makes any difference. Now I do have my external rocker box oil drains emptying into the gear case too, but I don’t think that is a significant amount of oil draining from there, or am I wrong?

Hah, yes, 4000 surely would be a fast idle, no I idle between 800 and 1000, don’t go above 4000 much on the street.

[Ferrous Head]

Had an engine (many years ago) that used external oil lines from the rocker boxes to the gearcase. Done that way rather than messing with the internal lines in the cylinder on a big stroker.

And I did it with virtually ALL of my Ducati singles but I digress.

No, don't believe external oil lines will be a problem. The boxes have two return paths, the internal (rather small) holes and the push rod tubes.

Look at the size of the oil feed lines and you can see that "not much" oil gets up there.

So, no, I'm thinking it may well be the filter causing the problem.

I advocate that people DON'T run a filter. Change your oil more often. And LOOK at your oil from time to time.

4000 is where my cams come in. Below that it's merely fast.

[needspeed]

Hi Bill, good job finding a solution to the excessive oil problem. But I wonder why it's so excessive in the first place.

For what it's worth: some thoughts.

The fact that your engine is 368cc bigger than stock is a possible factor but it still seems like too much oil.

In the early year sump and gerotor pump engines the rockers drained through the cylinder into the sump and from there to the scavenge side of the pump. You have external drains into the cam cover. It should work but it's not an ideal place for that system. Your drained top end oil has to go first into the cam chest and then into the crank area and then the sump. So the cam chest is getting more oil than a stock bike would. Hard to say how much more but it's logical to assume that the drained oil is roughly equal to the amount pumped into the rockers. Whatever that is.

I'm not sure what year cam cover you have. Guessing 1980? does it have a working breather valve in it?

Also the stock generator oil slinger usually runs about 1/16 from the cover and plays a big part in how much oil gets past it. You've got an alternator that you say you have the slinger on, but what is the proximity to the cover?

I also wonder what effect the oil catch can has on the efficiency of the breather system. Is it a restriction to the air flow? The stock crankcase valves allow air to go in both directions depending on piston movement.

The catch cans are designed to seperate oil from the air so that the air coming out has no oil in it. They have an inlet and an outlet. You've got the hose from the cam cover going into the outlet. Isn't that backwards? Where does the other hose go? The air cleaner?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/36353822109...SABEgIkUPD_BwE

[billeuze]

Hi needspeed, thanks for the thoughts. Yeh, I wondered if my slinger is too far away from the cam cover. I’ll remove the alternator and measure. Thanks for letting me know how close it should be. The cases are 1980 so I assume the cam cover is also 1980. I installed a brand new breather valve into the cam cover. It’s the newer umbrella valve style.

As for the catch can, yes, as you noticed I swapped out the in and out lines. There is no restriction on the catch can head, no check valves, it makes no difference to air flow which is used for in or out. I swapped them because after reading some articles on cstch can design, it seems the consensus is to have the inlet go to a downtube and easiest way to add a down tube to the inside of the head is to use the one labelled “out”. It has a hole on the bottom of it thst fits a 3/8 npt tap so I tapped it and threaded in a short brass nipple.

[billeuze]

I did put a drain valve on the bottom my catch can. Its a rather small valve and won't flow oil very well unless the oil is hot. But it what I had on hand. If oil really doesn't flow I'll look for a bigger one.

I fitted the valve and re-installed the catch can then thought the bottom of the valve will get full of road dirt and scratch the shit out of the cylinder when I turn it to open. So I fitted a plug to the bottom with a piece of oil line and a pipe plug:


And, based on Needspeeds feedback I did pull my alternator to check the distance of the slinger from the edge of the breather valve. I found that the slinger was basically flush with the edge of the breather, almost inside of it, so it may have actually been slinging oil into it rather than away from it. I also found that I was using the wrong washer. I found the instructions for my new style umbrella valve breather and learned that It came with a larger (1-3/4") washer that I should have been using with it. When assembling this I found I had 2 slinger washers in stock and just grabbed one to use without noticing one was bigger (the bigger one is only 1/8" bigger diameter) and without reading the instructions that i had filed away 12 years ago when I installed breather valve. Since this new style breather has a much bigger opening, it needs a bigger slinger to prevent the slung oil from flying into the breather. Probably even bigger than 1-3/4" would be better but that's about as big as will fit through the opening in the case and squeeze past the generator drive gear (or is it called "idler gear").


So I installed the the larger slinger washer and mounted it a 1/16" in closer to the alternator (away from the breather). I didn't get a chance to test it yet, that'll be next weekend. I also pulled my starter and re-installed it with another variation of gasket hoping that'll solve the leak. At this point I am back to thinking my only leak was from the starter gasket. What I thought may have been a cylinder base gasket leak was probably accumulated oil spray from the catch can which started leaking once it was fuller than the bottom of the downpipe (which I also shortened).

So, we'll see next weekend how it goes...