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  #861  
Old 16th November 2019
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I'm sure you will do a fine job!
I used to work on refrigeration motors, i did the mechanical side and my boss did the electrical, so i didn't pay much attention to what he was doing, but i remember he used to count the turns off and on. When done he dipped it in Shellack (spelling?) and then in an oven to cure it.
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  #862  
Old 17th November 2019
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while it does look sloppy, mine was better, the diff is not as much as you think.
the important thing is each winding layer increases electro-magnetic flux from the magnetic field of the rotating magnets, this increases current.
i have rewound many things, some because i had to and some for grins and giggles. when doing a vintage guitar pickup, a less than perfect layer is called a scattered wind and this does change tonal qualities but some say it can also improve the sound, very subjective.
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  #863  
Old 17th November 2019
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Scatter wound pickups suck for output unless you run a ton of wire. They’re definitely cool, especially if it’s a single coil and not potted, but in something like this, subjective “mojo” isn’t really beneficial...

I am mildly curious if some good potting compound would help the durability here any though. Might just cause heat issues if it wasn’t thermally conductive enough.
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  #864  
Old 17th November 2019
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that is an age old ?
from an offshore salt environment, sealing the windings is a plus. from a cost perspective, way more. it has to be applied and then if a rewind is needed, many dollars more to remove.
as far as the mc goes, probably will not matter much since the entire thing runs an even temp being an oil bath as a heat sink. `the issue here is getting the correct varnish insulation on the magnet wire.
when i did an experiment, as i wound the form, i applied an insulation paint.


Last edited by bustert; 17th November 2019 at 20:18..
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  #865  
Old 17th November 2019
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Definitely a nightmare to get it back off. That was the big reason I thought it would be a questionable experiment. If it proves not to help, you’re pretty well stuck buying a new stator.

Roughly how much wire does a re-wind take? Just curious how much it would take to do this with some of the pricey insulation materials.
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  #866  
Old 18th November 2019
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I've got 26 turns on each post and each coil is a little less than 65" x 12 posts
Then add a couple feet for arrangements?
Should be app 67 feet for mine anyway.

If you have to rewire again after plotting, you could soak the assembly in solvent, acetone or other to loosen it but you'd have to reinsulate the metal.
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  #867  
Old 21st November 2019
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Thanks to everyone who commented.
Sorry if this appears, and I missed it? There are only 3 rotor and tower slot widths for all 1937-76 4-cam engines (45, K, KH, XL, UL), which determine the complete breather timing interval.
1. rotor .375" (88°) + tower .34375" (81°) = 169°: all non-R 1937-71 engines; the exact opening-closing points vary between engines; 1952-71 K &c. slots are taller than 45 & UL
2. rotor .594" (146°) + tower .34375" (81°) = 227°: 1972-76 XL; these slots are also taller than 45 & UL.
3. rotor .214" (99°) + tower .269 (125°) = 224°: all 1954-? KR, KHR, XLR (many mods to this)
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  #868  
Old 22nd November 2019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitabel View Post
There are only 3 rotor and tower slot widths for all 1937-76 4-cam engines (45, K, KH, XL, UL), which determine the complete breather timing interval.
1. rotor .375" (88°) + tower .34375" (81°) = 169°: all non-R 1937-71 engines; the exact opening-closing points vary between engines; 1952-71 K &c. slots are taller than 45 & UL
2. rotor .594" (146°) + tower .34375" (81°) = 227°: 1972-76 XL; these slots are also taller than 45 & UL.
3. rotor .214" (99°) + tower .269 (125°) = 224°: all 1954-? KR, KHR, XLR (many mods to this)
Thank you kitabel.

Here is all the info I have gathered so far on 76< breathers.
http://www.sportsterpedia.com/doku.p...k:ih:engmech07

I picked this up from the forum by XLF member JimmCapp but I haven't been able to process it all yet.
Breakdown of XL & K model breathers, set-up, service and upgrades.
52-76 models:
* Timed Rotary Breather

* Design & Function
** Integral with the oil pump, timed to engine rotation.
** 72 & up timing
Opens 25 degrees ATDC closes 85 degrees ABDC

** 52-71
Breather timing was less duration.
Rotary breather connects flywheel area to gearcase.
Slinger separates oil from air.

** 52-62
Special slinger on generator.
Spring loaded bushing in case rubbed end of slinger.
Breather pipe in gearcase cover open to atmosphere.

** 63-76
Washer - 1 5/8“ dia. on end of generator.
1/16-3/16” Clearance
Service
Pump had to be timed, line up these marks;
Ignition timing mark - center of window.
Dot on rotary breather should be centered in pump housing notch.
Changed by repositioning of pump gear to drive gear on pinion shaft.

** 63-76 Slinger washer distance
1/16-3/16“
Increase by grinding generator gear or add generator gaskets.
Decrease by shimming washer.

Updates

** 52-71 Breathers
Install 72-76 pump.
Changes breather timing - benefit.
Modify feed supply.
Plug old fitting in case.
Run feed to back of new pump.


The later style system is just like your car.
A deep sump was added to 77> casings and the scavenge side of the oil pump simply pulls the oil from there.
Holes were added between the crankcase and the gearcase / cam chest and crankcase pressure is vented to atmosphere from there.
(much the way your car's crankcase is vented out the top thru the valve covers)

The shallow sump, timed breather system, comes from the aviation world of old.
Piston driven aircraft had to be able to evacuate the oil from the crankcase regardless of engine altitude and that system does that.
At the time Harley adapted that system they were copying the highest engine technology of the day.
They just took too long to abandon it as technology advanced.

76< Timed Breather Valve

The rotary breather valve is timed to open on the downstroke of the pistons.
This allows crankcase exhaust air pressure to expel the scavenge oil from the crankcase breather oil trap into the gearcase.
The breather valve closes on piston upstroke, creating vacuum in the crankcase.

And from Dr Dick,
How the volume compares when the breather opens as to when it closes:
If we knew that, we'd have a much clearer picture of what actually happens.
This diagram shows the volume swept by piston action in a 1000cc motor.
It shows how much displacement is changed from min volume (0 cubic inches) to max volume(56.2 ci more than min).


There's only 1.2 cubic inches of net outward flow per revolution.
(ignoring the dynamics of the inertia that the moving column imparts to the actual net movement)
So the actual movement is great but the net change is small.
How much actual movement?
About 45 ci on down stroke and about another 45 on the up for a total of app. 90 ci per rev trying to squeeze thru the open breather.
(which is fully open for exactly 1/2 the time of the 'just open' to 'just close' total time.

90 ci per revolution is about 1-1/2 quarts per revolution.
Multiply that by 5000 rpm and you get 7500 quarts per min.
That's almost 2000 gallons per min trying to get thru the breather.
Obviously that ain't happening and the highly revered 1/4 speed (R) pump has a way smaller opening yet than the street pump.


The pics below show the flow from the flywheel cavity to the return pump (applies to 76< only).
In stock configuration, most all used oil ends up in the flywheel cavity.
The small amount that gets supplied to the upper pushrod ball/socket goes into the gearcase.
While the splash oil to the exhaust valves enters the crankcase through the head drains.


There are only 2 areas that get supply (feed) oil pumped to them, the crankpin and the rocker shafts.







Left is the unmodified 1/4 speed R valve. Right is the 1000 stock.


R model is the left one.








Breather Gears:



Some of amf's signature quality control. These are 3 - 72 breather gears.


A closer view.
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  #869  
Old 2nd December 2019
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quarts???
any other units of measurements???
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  #870  
Old 3rd December 2019
stikflote stikflote is offline
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quarts == 2 pints
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