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  #1  
Old 3rd August 2021
yelladox yelladox is offline
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Default Metal dust in the oil?? [1275 kit]

Hey Y'all,

Put a mild 1275 kit in the 2018 iron 1200 in February. Since then I've run break in according to Hammer instruction, and then changed the oil & filter again some 1800 miles after that (FSM says to change every 1500 miles if ridden hard). 2000 miles into a road trip on the sporty, I figured I would get the oil changed as I've been running it pretty hard (mostly above 4.5k rpm, with a final stretch of several hours north of 90~ mph). While it was in the shop, I got a call from the service desk saying I should come in because the tech wants to discuss my oil. When I get there, the tech shows me how the oil is shiny with very fine metal particles, almost like a metallic paint flake. There are no pieces, it's just very fine dust. At this point I'm a tad panicked, so I head over to harbor freight and by an endoscopic camera and these are what the pictures came out as:








I made a video but can't figure out how to upload it to XLforum, so in the meantime, please see the screenshots:





What's the risk here? Can I get home (another thousand or so miles) if I keep eyes on oil levels + oil light? Do the cylinder walls look ok?
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  #2  
Old 3rd August 2021
Bikeaholic Bikeaholic is offline
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Hi,
I have used the endoscope type camera before and they do make the tiniest marks look huge. Still seems like the usual cross sections from maching on the cyclinder walls although maybe some longer type marks. Even wearing glasses i could be wrong.
The oil does seem a bit soup like and 'maybe it is still wearing in' as it is still like a dust. ( is there a bit of larger pieces is see at bottom of pan? any gold/brass type colour? )
Almost as if the first oil change had not been done. Yes i know you write the oil had been dropped out as per Hammer instructions.
There seems to be a bit of the copper colour but could just be the picture angle.
I dropped my first oil change very early after the 1250 kit, at about 100 miles and than another two oil changes soon after, but thats just me. It looked similar to yours at only the 100 mile oil change.
Does the bike engine feel sound alright/ overheating? Perhaps this oil change, run for less miles and drop oil out for another look.
Others members will likely respond to your post soon.
PS.. what other work was done with the Kit?

Last edited by Bikeaholic; 3rd August 2021 at 10:22..
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  #3  
Old 3rd August 2021
kitabel kitabel is offline
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Magnet: Y/n?
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  #4  
Old 3rd August 2021
yelladox yelladox is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikeaholic View Post
Hi,
I have used the endoscope type camera before and they do make the tiniest marks look huge. Still seems like the usual cross sections from maching on the cyclinder walls although maybe some longer type marks. Even wearing glasses i could be wrong.
I think the picture of a picture probably enhances the visual effect, I thought the cylinder walls looked pretty normal...but I haven't seen enough from the inside to confirm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikeaholic View Post
The oil does seem a bit soup like and 'maybe it is still wearing in' as it is still like a dust. ( is there a bit of larger pieces is see at bottom of pan? any gold/brass type colour? )
The tech didn't see any large chunks, only this really fine dust. I think you're seeing an air bubble or outside dirt.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikeaholic View Post
There seems to be a bit of the copper colour but could just be the picture angle.
Yeah I think that might be mostly a combination of the video, the light at the time, the oil itself's color... there was a golden hue (I think I used castrol synthetic last time and it looked like that), but the particles were definitely silver.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikeaholic View Post
Does the bike engine feel sound alright/ overheating? Perhaps this oil change, run for less miles and drop oil out for another look.
Define overheating? Bike sounds fine, and the tech was also surprised because nothing sounded off when he ran it. Engine has been running great on this trip despite being somewhat mistreated. My dynojet is reading an engine temp anywhere from 396 to 423 (I'm in the south right now, and we're riding in the 90s/100s).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikeaholic View Post
PS.. what other work was done with the Kit?
Sorry always forget this part:
- flat top pistons
- stock 1200 heads
- 570 cams / bronze pinion gear


External to that oil system
- DK Customs HiFlow 606 air cleaner
- Bassani RR3 exhaust
- Energy One Extra Plate kit
- dynojet tuner + dyno'd by a dealership in the area


Quote:
Originally Posted by kitabel View Post
Magnet: Y/n?
Ah snap, didn't think of that
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  #5  
Old 4th August 2021
Bikeaholic Bikeaholic is offline
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Anything more to report?
I have a similar set up with a 1250, flat tops, 570 cams, bronze oil gear etc.
My engine temp sits at around 350 degree now but when running in it became a fair bit hotter and up to 415 degree although once i arrived at about 350 miles into initial run in i noticed the engine temp dropped which i could feel when riding the bike. Of course if your running the bike hard in hot weather it will get much hotter.
A magnet had been mentioned by Kitabel, maybe worth to somehow place the magnet in oil tank and see if bigger pieces of the silver metal. Magnet will not pickup bronze/brass but that seems not your concern.

You have the Power Vision and Hammer map? I would think you had purchased the 1275 from Hammer? If so, maybe have a chat with them also.
I understand your concern as you have to ride to your destination and wonder if it is safe to do so.
It would be interesting to see the how the new oil, dropped out early, would look. It still looks like break in oil chang to me, in particular that you report the bike runs well and no other problems. What had the 'oil temp' been? Did you do the first oil change and what did it look like?
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  #6  
Old 4th August 2021
kitabel kitabel is offline
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Yellow: pump gear, piston pin bushing, cam cover bushings
Silver magnetic: shafts, bearings, rings
Silver non-magnetic: pistons
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  #7  
Old 6th August 2021
yelladox yelladox is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikeaholic View Post
Anything more to report?
Given the circumstances and the time crunch I'm facing, I opted to continue the oil change and run the bike home. I have some 900 miles on it now, and will have 400 more tomorrow. I will likely do another oil change this weekend, this time with a magnet (thanks Kit), and more photos/film.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikeaholic View Post
I have a similar set up with a 1250, flat tops, 570 cams, bronze oil gear etc.
My engine temp sits at around 350 degree now but when running in it became a fair bit hotter and up to 415 degree although once i arrived at about 350 miles into initial run in i noticed the engine temp dropped which i could feel when riding the bike. Of course if your running the bike hard in hot weather it will get much hotter.
Yeah the bike has never run at anything really below 400F, but I'm usually high in RPMs and don't tend to really putt around. Today I cruised in fifth at consistent speeds in the sixties and noticed the engine temp rested around 380.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikeaholic View Post
You have the Power Vision and Hammer map? I would think you had purchased the 1275 from Hammer? If so, maybe have a chat with them also.
Yes on all four counts: the dynojet flashed Yeah called them up when this first happened and they said it could be something or nothing at all, and that we won't know unless I tear it down and peek inside. They also said to run a compression test: I ran one right before the trip that returned 218 front/215 rear with a hot engine and throttle plate wide open. I'm going to send them these pictures but I suspect a tear-down will be required regardless. I guess I should go ahead and order a full set of gaskets...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikeaholic View Post
I understand your concern as you have to ride to your destination and wonder if it is safe to do so.
Yeah this sucks!!! haha. This is also my daily driver I've started commuting on and it cuts the trip to the office in three! Really hate the thought of having to bench it until I work on it on weekends...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikeaholic View Post
It would be interesting to see the how the new oil, dropped out early, would look. It still looks like break in oil chang to me, in particular that you report the bike runs well and no other problems. What had the 'oil temp' been? Did you do the first oil change and what did it look like?
I've never known my oil temp as I don't have the aftermarket oil dipstick...but this is the bike's third oil change since the hammer kit & cams went in. The first oil change looked ok especially since I expected to see debris. Don't recall exactly what the second one (1800 miles later) looked like, but I think nothing shocking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kitabel View Post
Yellow: pump gear, piston pin bushing, cam cover bushings
Silver magnetic: shafts, bearings, rings
Silver non-magnetic: pistons
Would the dust still look silver with hammer pistons? They were a different color when I got them.
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  #8  
Old 6th August 2021
Bikeaholic Bikeaholic is offline
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I should have mentioned to cut open the oil filter and have a look.
My bike had the silver dust after during break-in. Are you saying the pistons are a different colour? My 1250 flat tops are the silver Maybe the 1275 are different? Although the "piston rings' break in with cylinder walls" hence the silver dust.
Yeah it seems it is best to crack open and look at what is going on, as you have planned. Maybe the endoscope showing some longer up/down marks on cylinder walls is the problem? Or camera makes it look huge although i am no expert.
Take it easy on your run back home just in case. OK.
PS. I think i had somewhere around 195-205 on my compression test. 1250 kit.
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  #9  
Old 6th August 2021
yelladox yelladox is offline
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What should I use to do that? Some kind of bolt cutter?

The pistons look different, see the difference between stock and hammer:

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  #10  
Old 6th August 2021
kitabel kitabel is offline
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What it is: I don't know.
What it isn't: "nothing at all". No, break-in oil doesn't look like that.
Something important is going south, and will only get worse.
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