The Sportster and Buell Motorcycle Forum - The XLFORUM®
 

Go Back   The Sportster and Buell Motorcycle Forum - The XLFORUM® > VENDORS > DK Custom Products
XLF Blogs XLF Arcade XLF Disclaimer/Privacy Statement/Terms Of Use

Notices

Active Threads
0 Have I got my cam gears lined up right?
Last Post: Tyler Lillie
Posted On: 13 Minutes Ago
Replies: 10
Views: 143
0 Howdy from Baytown, TX
Last Post: 02Custom
Posted On: 13 Minutes Ago
Replies: 0
Views: 1
0 Who's still riding???
Last Post: IronMick
Posted On: 16 Minutes Ago
Replies: 31
Views: 648
0 What did you do for your sporty Today?
Last Post: dodgetrucken
Posted On: 52 Minutes Ago
Replies: 5,493
Views: 635,985
0 Seat Poll - Bad Ass or Fat Ass
Last Post: Glamazon
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 37
Views: 11,793
0 Memphis Shades Rio Grande & Trigger Lock
Last Post: jswhite
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 5
Views: 119
0 Mixture screw has no effect. Need help!
Last Post: John Harper
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 15
Views: 409
0 How stock is your bike
Last Post: SLW210
Posted On: 2 Hours Ago
Replies: 137
Views: 28,509
6 Is Your SPORTSTER...
Last Post: Sportycus
Posted On: 2 Hours Ago
Replies: 9
Views: 1,363
5 Your stomping grounds
Last Post: sportsterpaul
Posted On: 2 Hours Ago
Replies: 238
Views: 27,791
0 To lay it down or not?
Last Post: IXL2Relax
Posted On: 2 Hours Ago
Replies: 166
Views: 18,687
0 FLH saddlebags on Easy Brackets
Last Post: Hippysmack
Posted On: 2 Hours Ago
Replies: 1
Views: 47
0 How many amps does a 2003 XB charging system create?
Last Post: IXL2Relax
Posted On: 3 Hours Ago
Replies: 3
Views: 87
0 Spokes and dual disc
Last Post: PetesPonies
Posted On: 3 Hours Ago
Replies: 6
Views: 152
0 inlet rubber band available by the meter?
Last Post: doodah man
Posted On: 3 Hours Ago
Replies: 17
Views: 553
0 IronHead Wire Diagrams Etc
Last Post: doodah man
Posted On: 3 Hours Ago
Replies: 47
Views: 34,752
0 Hot Chicks on Hot Bikes
Last Post: Stairman
Posted On: 3 Hours Ago
Replies: 9,322
Views: 1,443,062
0 This is gonna hurt.
Last Post: rubine
Posted On: 3 Hours Ago
Replies: 7,556
Views: 1,415,929
0 Those little ways to personalize your bike...
Last Post: Jollly Rogers
Posted On: 4 Hours Ago
Replies: 1
Views: 178
0 New Tires>Fallaway>Deale r>?
Last Post: ed_in_az
Posted On: 4 Hours Ago
Replies: 33
Views: 2,029
0 When Were You Born?
Last Post: MacSporty02
Posted On: 4 Hours Ago
Replies: 319
Views: 75,176
0 Cracked exhaust bracket short shots
Last Post: newroadster
Posted On: 5 Hours Ago
Replies: 2
Views: 76
0 Early/Late 73 case date code
Last Post: brucstoudt
Posted On: 5 Hours Ago
Replies: 13
Views: 566
0 seat bolt
Last Post: brucstoudt
Posted On: 5 Hours Ago
Replies: 8
Views: 303
0 Gravydog crashed again.
Last Post: gravydog
Posted On: 6 Hours Ago
Replies: 120
Views: 7,285
0 Crusty's Travels
Last Post: SonWon
Posted On: 6 Hours Ago
Replies: 1,688
Views: 178,852
0 Hot Rods, Rat Rods, and Customs.
Last Post: rubine
Posted On: 6 Hours Ago
Replies: 2,788
Views: 257,102
0 Screw Loose's Repairs
Last Post: Screw Loose Dan
Posted On: 6 Hours Ago
Replies: 324
Views: 48,778
0 Straight 1" risers on 1200c
Last Post: chain
Posted On: 7 Hours Ago
Replies: 14
Views: 254
More...
Members Birthdays
Sponsored Links
Reply
 
Share Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
Nibelungen's Avatar
Nibelungen Nibelungen is offline
Senior Chief Harley Engineer 2nd Class
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Bologna, Italy
Posts: 1,653
Sportster/Buell Model: xl 883 Iron
Sportster/Buell Year: 2017
Sportster/Buell Model #2: xl Hugger (sold)
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 2001
Reputation: 3284130
Nibelungen has a reputation beyond reputeNibelungen has a reputation beyond reputeNibelungen has a reputation beyond reputeNibelungen has a reputation beyond reputeNibelungen has a reputation beyond reputeNibelungen has a reputation beyond reputeNibelungen has a reputation beyond reputeNibelungen has a reputation beyond reputeNibelungen has a reputation beyond reputeNibelungen has a reputation beyond reputeNibelungen has a reputation beyond repute
Default

It's true Mo.Co. sometimes fails... and send into production lines cheap and crap engine components like,
Specifically for XLs:
-CV carb plastic fuel inlet
-earlier model of plastic oil tank without relief valve
-the infamous clutch spring plate

other components can became an issue only if you change the established equilibrium and pump up your ponies (like the need for a bronze oil pump drive gear etc. etc.)

other components are perfect like they are since the products of many many years of evolution of the same engine...

IDK at what category classify the rocker locker issue
__________________
the dreads enter Babylon 1955-83
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
DK Custom's Avatar
DK Custom DK Custom is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Red Banks, MS
Posts: 4,453
Sportster/Buell Model: 883L
Sportster/Buell Year: 2009
Reputation: 752880
DK Custom has a reputation beyond reputeDK Custom has a reputation beyond reputeDK Custom has a reputation beyond reputeDK Custom has a reputation beyond reputeDK Custom has a reputation beyond reputeDK Custom has a reputation beyond reputeDK Custom has a reputation beyond reputeDK Custom has a reputation beyond reputeDK Custom has a reputation beyond reputeDK Custom has a reputation beyond reputeDK Custom has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Interesting thoughts posted above-

Facts-

Hundreds of millions of miles on bikes with Rocker Lockers and not a single reported issue.

Hundreds of bikes with over 100,000 miles with Rocker Lockers and not a single reported issue.

The issue of the noise could be easily fixed at the factory with shoulder bolts...and, in fact, each of us could fix it with shoulder bolts. But those are more costly than the Rocker Lockers.


Kevin
__________________
Free Shipping & International Discount for Limited Time - Click HERE

www.DKCustom.com
Phone: 662-252-8828
Text: 662-420-4891
Email: Support@DKCustomProducts.com
DK Custom YouTube Videos
Instagram.com/dkcustomproducts
Lots of Photo's at Pinterest

Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
Sportycus Sportycus is offline
Biker
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Errrr..... err...... I... I... I... I can't remember, I think I got it written down somewhere...
Posts: 38
Sportster/Buell Model: XL1200C
Sportster/Buell Year: 2014
Reputation: 308877
Sportycus has a reputation beyond reputeSportycus has a reputation beyond reputeSportycus has a reputation beyond reputeSportycus has a reputation beyond reputeSportycus has a reputation beyond reputeSportycus has a reputation beyond reputeSportycus has a reputation beyond reputeSportycus has a reputation beyond reputeSportycus has a reputation beyond reputeSportycus has a reputation beyond reputeSportycus has a reputation beyond repute
Default

G'day Kevin,

Please don't get me wrong. I'm not saying in any way that Rocker Lockers are a bad idea. In fact if the stats are as you have listed (note, I am assuming you mean 100,000 miles of having rocker lockers installed, and under all kinds of varying road, traffic, and weather conditions) this is quite impressive. I'll leave it to the well-respected regulars with engine expertise to ease my thoughts.

I'm honestly on the fence with this one. Part of me suggests that this is probably a very long oversight, and the Rocker Lockers look like a great and simple fix, but part of me suggests that there is a genuine engineering reason why MoCo made these clearances as big as they are.

The MoCo could have easily fixed the noise here at virtually zero cost by reducing the tolerances of the drilled holes and shaft notch. They could even release the newer and more improved rocker support plate as a retrofit kit, allowing them to make even more money.
This issue could also be purely a business decision ("that timeless classic old-school traditional Harley tappet noise we know and love").
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
Nibelungen's Avatar
Nibelungen Nibelungen is offline
Senior Chief Harley Engineer 2nd Class
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Bologna, Italy
Posts: 1,653
Sportster/Buell Model: xl 883 Iron
Sportster/Buell Year: 2017
Sportster/Buell Model #2: xl Hugger (sold)
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 2001
Reputation: 3284130
Nibelungen has a reputation beyond reputeNibelungen has a reputation beyond reputeNibelungen has a reputation beyond reputeNibelungen has a reputation beyond reputeNibelungen has a reputation beyond reputeNibelungen has a reputation beyond reputeNibelungen has a reputation beyond reputeNibelungen has a reputation beyond reputeNibelungen has a reputation beyond reputeNibelungen has a reputation beyond reputeNibelungen has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DK Custom View Post
The issue of the noise could be easily fixed at the factory with shoulder bolts...and, in fact, each of us could fix it with shoulder bolts. But those are more costly than the Rocker Lockers.


Kevin
maybe i'm a dumb guy.... but...
aren't already the rocker bolts with shoulder?
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
DK Custom's Avatar
DK Custom DK Custom is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Red Banks, MS
Posts: 4,453
Sportster/Buell Model: 883L
Sportster/Buell Year: 2009
Reputation: 752880
DK Custom has a reputation beyond reputeDK Custom has a reputation beyond reputeDK Custom has a reputation beyond reputeDK Custom has a reputation beyond reputeDK Custom has a reputation beyond reputeDK Custom has a reputation beyond reputeDK Custom has a reputation beyond reputeDK Custom has a reputation beyond reputeDK Custom has a reputation beyond reputeDK Custom has a reputation beyond reputeDK Custom has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sportycus View Post
G'day Kevin,

Please don't get me wrong. I'm not saying in any way that Rocker Lockers are a bad idea. In fact if the stats are as you have listed (note, I am assuming you mean 100,000 miles of having rocker lockers installed, and under all kinds of varying road, traffic, and weather conditions) this is quite impressive. I'll leave it to the well-respected regulars with engine expertise to ease my thoughts.

I'm honestly on the fence with this one. Part of me suggests that this is probably a very long oversight, and the Rocker Lockers look like a great and simple fix, but part of me suggests that there is a genuine engineering reason why MoCo made these clearances as big as they are.

The MoCo could have easily fixed the noise here at virtually zero cost by reducing the tolerances of the drilled holes and shaft notch. They could even release the newer and more improved rocker support plate as a retrofit kit, allowing them to make even more money.
This issue could also be purely a business decision ("that timeless classic old-school traditional Harley tappet noise we know and love").
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nibelungen View Post
maybe i'm a dumb guy.... but...
aren't already the rocker bolts with shoulder?
Sorry, I was being a bit tongue in cheek about the shoulder bolts.

btw, this addresses both the above posts.

(yes, bikes with well over 100,000 miles after Rocker Lockers installed).

Experiments were done with bolts that had larger, precisely machined, shoulders. These kept the rocker shafts from clanking back and forth against the bolts. However, there were two issues:

1. Much more expensive to machine those than the Rocker Lockers

2. In very much of what HD does, they use very loose tolerances. Not because they are needed, simply because it is easier and less expensive. This is not just in the engine, but on the frame also.

We have seen this over the years, being as we build over 1000 different parts that fit on various areas of the Harley.

When we build a part we have to take into account their variances (loose tolerances) in where they weld a stand-off, for just one example, when we build a part that utilizes said stand-off.

Getting back to the rocker box. Most of the time when using the machined bolts (instead of the Rocker Lockers) everything worked fine. However, a small percentage of the time, when there was not any play between the diameter of the bolt and the diameter of the bolt hole, we were unable to get the rocker box sitting exactly where it should.

Thus, because the Rocker Lockers take into account the cascading effect of loose HD tolerances, And, because they are less expensive than machined bolts, Rocker Locker are the best answer for quieting the ticking that is a result of the rocker shaft banging back and forth against the bolts.

Kevin
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #46  
Old 3 Weeks Ago
Nibelungen's Avatar
Nibelungen Nibelungen is offline
Senior Chief Harley Engineer 2nd Class
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Bologna, Italy
Posts: 1,653
Sportster/Buell Model: xl 883 Iron
Sportster/Buell Year: 2017
Sportster/Buell Model #2: xl Hugger (sold)
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 2001
Reputation: 3284130
Nibelungen has a reputation beyond reputeNibelungen has a reputation beyond reputeNibelungen has a reputation beyond reputeNibelungen has a reputation beyond reputeNibelungen has a reputation beyond reputeNibelungen has a reputation beyond reputeNibelungen has a reputation beyond reputeNibelungen has a reputation beyond reputeNibelungen has a reputation beyond reputeNibelungen has a reputation beyond reputeNibelungen has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DK Custom View Post
In very much of what HD does, they use very loose tolerances. Not because they are needed, simply because it is easier and less expensive. This is not just in the engine, but on the frame also
Oh
It seems not a thing to be proud of... since the price of brand new HDs...
or maybe is all about more reliability at the expense of the performances...
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 3 Weeks Ago
Mr Dream Merchant's Avatar
Mr Dream Merchant Mr Dream Merchant is offline
Harley Engineer
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 334
Sportster/Buell Model: 1200c
Sportster/Buell Year: 04
Mr Dream Merchant has disabled reputation
Red face

Anyone have a video of what the engine sounds like when these are needed?

Last edited by DK Custom; 3 Weeks Ago at 05:16..
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 3 Weeks Ago
Mr Dream Merchant's Avatar
Mr Dream Merchant Mr Dream Merchant is offline
Harley Engineer
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 334
Sportster/Buell Model: 1200c
Sportster/Buell Year: 04
Mr Dream Merchant has disabled reputation
Default

There is another maker that I think is better...its called Rock Out.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 3 Weeks Ago
DK Custom's Avatar
DK Custom DK Custom is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Red Banks, MS
Posts: 4,453
Sportster/Buell Model: 883L
Sportster/Buell Year: 2009
Reputation: 752880
DK Custom has a reputation beyond reputeDK Custom has a reputation beyond reputeDK Custom has a reputation beyond reputeDK Custom has a reputation beyond reputeDK Custom has a reputation beyond reputeDK Custom has a reputation beyond reputeDK Custom has a reputation beyond reputeDK Custom has a reputation beyond reputeDK Custom has a reputation beyond reputeDK Custom has a reputation beyond reputeDK Custom has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Dream Merchant View Post
Anyone have a video of what the engine sounds like when these are needed?
I think it is important to note that no engine needs these. There is nothing detrimental to the engine when it is ticking because of the rocker shafts banging into the bolts.

The only reason they would be "needed" is if the ticking bothers the owner of the bike.

At this LINK there are two videos. The first one has a before and after, beginning at about the 2 minute mark. The second was has a before right at the beginning of the video.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Dream Merchant View Post
There is another maker that I think is better...its called Rock Out.
The other company came after Rocker Lockers, having been started by an ex-partner in Rocker Lockers.

They are the same...it is a simple flared bushing. But the other company does not include an installation tool. But they do include an extra bushing, in case one gets messed up during installation without the tool.


Kevin
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Sponsored Links
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:50.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
XL Forum® - Linson Media LLC