The Sportster and Buell Motorcycle Forum - The XLFORUM®
 

Go Back   The Sportster and Buell Motorcycle Forum - The XLFORUM® > SPORTSTER MOTORCYCLE FORUM > Lubrication and Lubricants
XLF Blogs XLF Arcade XLF Disclaimer/Privacy Statement/Terms Of Use

Notices

Lubrication and Lubricants You guessed. Here is where everyone can argue over oil.

Active Threads
0 It's stalkie's Birthday!
Last Post: stalkie
Posted On: 5 Minutes Ago
Replies: 8
Views: 225
0 Keep & Kill
Last Post: Graywolf
Posted On: 20 Minutes Ago
Replies: 19,544
Views: 1,166,988
0 gerotor pump details
Last Post: thefrenchowl
Posted On: 32 Minutes Ago
Replies: 0
Views: 2
0 Ideas for a better oil breather setup
Last Post: 45Brit
Posted On: 57 Minutes Ago
Replies: 60
Views: 24,728
0 Hottie of the day, no nudity.
Last Post: cal43
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 26,018
Views: 2,671,973
0 Official XL Forum Random Image Thread (NO NUDITY!)
Last Post: cal43
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 49,457
Views: 8,045,913
0 History of Harley; One Man's Perspective
Last Post: harley506d
Posted On: 2 Hours Ago
Replies: 14
Views: 711
0 new from socal
Last Post: juzyHD
Posted On: 2 Hours Ago
Replies: 12
Views: 77
0 Grenade Plate
Last Post: harley506d
Posted On: 2 Hours Ago
Replies: 25
Views: 3,706
0 Hot Chicks on Hot Bikes
Last Post: cal43
Posted On: 2 Hours Ago
Replies: 11,564
Views: 2,368,087
0 Arlen Ness Big Sucker question
Last Post: Nailz
Posted On: 3 Hours Ago
Replies: 0
Views: 32
0 Clutch diaphragm spring question
Last Post: IXL2Relax
Posted On: 4 Hours Ago
Replies: 9
Views: 2,920
0 This week on Craig's list
Last Post: Steve9
Posted On: 5 Hours Ago
Replies: 5,029
Views: 731,981
0 Mid West Meet & Greet
Last Post: Crusty
Posted On: 6 Hours Ago
Replies: 797
Views: 79,332
0 Transformer XR1200
Last Post: jkinkade
Posted On: 7 Hours Ago
Replies: 515
Views: 61,857
4 2021 - only 3 Sportster models left
Last Post: kitabel
Posted On: 7 Hours Ago
Replies: 5
Views: 176
0 did .you ever kick a good man when he,, was down
Last Post: Iron Mike
Posted On: 7 Hours Ago
Replies: 1
Views: 93
0 Boardtracker Project
Last Post: JonesL
Posted On: 8 Hours Ago
Replies: 636
Views: 131,145
0 That Stupid F@#$&in' Speedometer
Last Post: Steve9
Posted On: 9 Hours Ago
Replies: 34
Views: 3,328
0 Sweetwater Motorcycle Rally & Cook-Off
Last Post: rokytnji
Posted On: 9 Hours Ago
Replies: 0
Views: 39
0 never mind
Last Post: IXL2Relax
Posted On: 9 Hours Ago
Replies: 228
Views: 35,911
0 1986-90 Evo Sportsters: What every owner should know but were afraid to ask
Last Post: Gary E
Posted On: 10 Hours Ago
Replies: 437
Views: 67,816
0 Flat Tracker Pics
Last Post: Gary E
Posted On: 12 Hours Ago
Replies: 1,163
Views: 653,100
0 Celebrating Sportsterpedia's 5th Anniversary
Last Post: DéDé
Posted On: 12 Hours Ago
Replies: 7
Views: 281
0 valve seals?
Last Post: Bob F
Posted On: 12 Hours Ago
Replies: 29
Views: 1,639
0 This is gonna hurt.
Last Post: rokytnji
Posted On: 13 Hours Ago
Replies: 8,225
Views: 1,784,649
0 Removing Rear Shock
Last Post: 45Brit
Posted On: 13 Hours Ago
Replies: 27
Views: 877
0 Tires & Shocks Needed: '90XLH 883
Last Post: Rollbar
Posted On: 14 Hours Ago
Replies: 19
Views: 741
0 Garage space - Leeds WY UK
Last Post: denguy
Posted On: 14 Hours Ago
Replies: 2
Views: 99
0 Identity crisis
Last Post: Steve9
Posted On: 14 Hours Ago
Replies: 46
Views: 3,127
More...
Members Birthdays
Reply
 
Share Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 13th January 2020
60Gunner's Avatar
60Gunner 60Gunner is offline
Master Custom Bike Builder
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: United States
Posts: 3,045
Sportster/Buell Model: 1200/1250C
Sportster/Buell Year: 05
Reputation: 3315981
60Gunner has a reputation beyond repute60Gunner has a reputation beyond repute60Gunner has a reputation beyond repute60Gunner has a reputation beyond repute60Gunner has a reputation beyond repute60Gunner has a reputation beyond repute60Gunner has a reputation beyond repute60Gunner has a reputation beyond repute60Gunner has a reputation beyond repute60Gunner has a reputation beyond repute60Gunner has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Another fix for a problem brought on by the demand for engines with better fuel efficiency and lowered emissions by yours truly. Certainly none of our concern and using an oil designed to reduce lspi wouldn't be in our best interest.
So what's being used for detergents? Magnesium? Calcium?
That aeroshell doesn't seem to replace the zinc with anything. Less than 1ppm of moly. Phosphorous only?

VR1 uses calcium and magnesium(detergents)and silicon as an anti foaming agent.(detergents cause foaming at high rpm)
And besides zinc/phosphorus and a very small amount of moly it also uses borates(boron) which is used as an anti wear/extreme pressure additive and as a secondary side effect also acts as a mild detergent and acid reducing agent. It also helps retain an oil's TBN. Explains why it still has plenty of TBN left even after 5000 miles despite starting out with like 7.6 where most gas engines start out with 8 or 9.
The small amount of moly is probably why some have no issues with it in wet clutches even tho it says not recommended for it.
Pretty nice package that seems to work quite well together and makes it a good race oil as well as street oil.

Last edited by 60Gunner; 13th January 2020 at 20:34..
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 13th January 2020
rejeanprimeau's Avatar
rejeanprimeau rejeanprimeau is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: On a farm
Posts: 6,396
Sportster/Buell Model: XL77.2R
Sportster/Buell Year: 2006
Reputation: 2908348
rejeanprimeau has a reputation beyond reputerejeanprimeau has a reputation beyond reputerejeanprimeau has a reputation beyond reputerejeanprimeau has a reputation beyond reputerejeanprimeau has a reputation beyond reputerejeanprimeau has a reputation beyond reputerejeanprimeau has a reputation beyond reputerejeanprimeau has a reputation beyond reputerejeanprimeau has a reputation beyond reputerejeanprimeau has a reputation beyond reputerejeanprimeau has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Penn Grade AKA BradPenn or Kendall has a 10.8 TBN, can I still put that olive green oil in my sportster???
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 14th January 2020
Tomcatt Tomcatt is offline
Dazed & Confused
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Never Never Land
Posts: 1,861
Sportster/Buell Model: XL1200C
Sportster/Buell Year: 2017
Other Motorcycle Model: BMW R9T
Other Motorcycle Year: 2015
Reputation: 2496729
Tomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rejeanprimeau View Post
Penn Grade AKA BradPenn or Kendall has a 10.8 TBN, can I still put that olive green oil in my sportster???
Without 60Gummers' approval? Heresy...
__________________
2017 XL1200C in SE Wisconsin, USA
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 14th January 2020
60Gunner's Avatar
60Gunner 60Gunner is offline
Master Custom Bike Builder
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: United States
Posts: 3,045
Sportster/Buell Model: 1200/1250C
Sportster/Buell Year: 05
Reputation: 3315981
60Gunner has a reputation beyond repute60Gunner has a reputation beyond repute60Gunner has a reputation beyond repute60Gunner has a reputation beyond repute60Gunner has a reputation beyond repute60Gunner has a reputation beyond repute60Gunner has a reputation beyond repute60Gunner has a reputation beyond repute60Gunner has a reputation beyond repute60Gunner has a reputation beyond repute60Gunner has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rejeanprimeau View Post
Penn Grade AKA BradPenn or Kendall has a 10.8 TBN, can I still put that olive green oil in my sportster???
No! It will blow up!

Hey I'm just posting this stuff cuz some people are interested in learning about oil and I'm learning myself.
Specifically why this conventional does so well in Harleys compared to synthetic mc oils 3 times the cost.
And yes, that green stuff is good oil in that regard.
TBN(total base number) to put it simply is an acid neutralizer to prevent corosion that gets depleted as oil gets more use. You want to change it before it's completely depleted. How fast it's depleted varies to an extent based on a number of factors including what it starts out as so 10.8 in virgin oil is good.
I learned that borates, used in 2 different forms as an AW additive is activated differently and adheres to metals differently than other AW additives like zddp and is also an acid reducer which aids in TBN lasting longer. Hence theoretically all else being equal a TBN level of lesser amounts to start with along with this acid reducer could last longer than TBN of greater amounts to start with because it makes the oil less acidic so the neutralizer isnt used up as fast.
Follow that?
TBN is pretty important in an oil. Probably more so in a motorcycle. Especially one that sits for extended periods of time and in varying climates.

Boring and geekish? Yes. But a much more scientific way of determining how good your oil is doing it's job than saying hey, it's $14/qt synthetic, my motor runs fine, so does my buddy's and it looks good on my dipstick.

Last edited by 60Gunner; 14th January 2020 at 01:12..
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 14th January 2020
SLW210's Avatar
SLW210 SLW210 is offline
Flat Track Champion
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Near Ft. Myers
Posts: 601
Sportster/Buell Model: 1200C
Sportster/Buell Year: 2009
Sportster/Buell Model #2: FXLR Low Rider
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 2019
Reputation: 1169400
SLW210 has a reputation beyond reputeSLW210 has a reputation beyond reputeSLW210 has a reputation beyond reputeSLW210 has a reputation beyond reputeSLW210 has a reputation beyond reputeSLW210 has a reputation beyond reputeSLW210 has a reputation beyond reputeSLW210 has a reputation beyond reputeSLW210 has a reputation beyond reputeSLW210 has a reputation beyond reputeSLW210 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

The Valvoline VR1 20W50 Race Oil is around $8-9 a quart around here, AFAIK.

Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W50 is $9.50 a quart and $28 for a 3 pack at Walmart.

Nothing scientific I see, just use the oil with the minimum requirements by the MoCo and factory change intervals and you're good to go.

Some people just over think things.

Pretty much how I determine what oil I buy, what ever is on special that meets the requirements. I have about 280,000 miles on my 2003 Suburban, oil changed when the "change oil" notice comes up. It spent quite a few of those miles towing.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 14th January 2020
bustert's Avatar
bustert bustert is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 10,212
Sportster/Buell Model: 1200s
Sportster/Buell Year: 2001
Sportster/Buell Model #2: xlch
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1974
Reputation: 3254109
bustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond repute
Default

the whole reason why oil formulation is changing. a BIG issue with cats is oil burn and with O2 sensors contamination is the additive used in the past.
engine and machining has changed greatly so there is really no need for a lot of the stuff. even viscosity is less of a factor. with newer base materials and lower mass, there is a great reduction in friction. for ex: old cams had .750 cross section, newer one have less than .500. cams used to have to deal with massive spring loads to control heavy single valves, today, small (less mass) multi-valves and less spring pressure are the norm.
wife's new honda is a 1500cc turbo that uses 0-20wt oil, 4 valve cyl and direct injection and redlines 6.5k.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 14th January 2020
glbsportster's Avatar
glbsportster glbsportster is offline
Chief Know It All
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Private Gated, Golf Comunity
Posts: 404
Sportster/Buell Model: 1200 C
Sportster/Buell Year: 2009
Reputation: 324733
glbsportster has a reputation beyond reputeglbsportster has a reputation beyond reputeglbsportster has a reputation beyond reputeglbsportster has a reputation beyond reputeglbsportster has a reputation beyond reputeglbsportster has a reputation beyond reputeglbsportster has a reputation beyond reputeglbsportster has a reputation beyond reputeglbsportster has a reputation beyond reputeglbsportster has a reputation beyond reputeglbsportster has a reputation beyond repute
Default

I have read that excessive moly can contribute to corrosion, has anyone heard anything about that?
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 14th January 2020
glbsportster's Avatar
glbsportster glbsportster is offline
Chief Know It All
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Private Gated, Golf Comunity
Posts: 404
Sportster/Buell Model: 1200 C
Sportster/Buell Year: 2009
Reputation: 324733
glbsportster has a reputation beyond reputeglbsportster has a reputation beyond reputeglbsportster has a reputation beyond reputeglbsportster has a reputation beyond reputeglbsportster has a reputation beyond reputeglbsportster has a reputation beyond reputeglbsportster has a reputation beyond reputeglbsportster has a reputation beyond reputeglbsportster has a reputation beyond reputeglbsportster has a reputation beyond reputeglbsportster has a reputation beyond repute
Default

I have used M1, Amsoil MCV and ARO...prefer ARO....just harder to find.....and Lucas....Lucas I did not like....was very noisy, if fact so noisy, I drained it after a little less than 500 miles. All the oils on the market today seem to be good....it usually comes down to subjective feelings or those that promote the qualities of their anointed oil and ignore the negatives assigned to the oil. But makes for good reading on here and some soft toned disagreements.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 14th January 2020
60Gunner's Avatar
60Gunner 60Gunner is offline
Master Custom Bike Builder
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: United States
Posts: 3,045
Sportster/Buell Model: 1200/1250C
Sportster/Buell Year: 05
Reputation: 3315981
60Gunner has a reputation beyond repute60Gunner has a reputation beyond repute60Gunner has a reputation beyond repute60Gunner has a reputation beyond repute60Gunner has a reputation beyond repute60Gunner has a reputation beyond repute60Gunner has a reputation beyond repute60Gunner has a reputation beyond repute60Gunner has a reputation beyond repute60Gunner has a reputation beyond repute60Gunner has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLW210 View Post
The Valvoline VR1 20W50 Race Oil is around $8-9 a quart around here, AFAIK.

Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W50 is $9.50 a quart and $28 for a 3 pack at Walmart.

Nothing scientific I see, just use the oil with the minimum requirements by the MoCo and factory change intervals and you're good to go.

Some people just over think things.

Pretty much how I determine what oil I buy, what ever is on special that meets the requirements. I have about 280,000 miles on my 2003 Suburban, oil changed when the "change oil" notice comes up. It spent quite a few of those miles towing.
You apparently have totally ignored the prices above. You're in the US. The $5.67 a qt. Pack of 6 has been at Amazon for years. The parts stores it's under $7 a qt.
I assume you're running the VR1 since it's cheapest and that's your only criteria? Otherwise I don't understand your argument. The oil I run is always cheaper than the oil you run. I don't need to buy what's on sale. Save it for the amsoil threads.
Not everyone is running an IH bustert and adding a fresh qt. every 500 miles. ;p

Last edited by 60Gunner; 14th January 2020 at 22:13..
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 15th January 2020
bustert's Avatar
bustert bustert is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 10,212
Sportster/Buell Model: 1200s
Sportster/Buell Year: 2001
Sportster/Buell Model #2: xlch
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1974
Reputation: 3254109
bustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond repute
Default

in times past, we added moly to engine oils in the industrial engines, these were high hp slow turning and ran 24/7.
today, not anymore and yes the moly can do some damage as materials changed. gone are the babbit bearings and now precision insert types with exotic materials like silver alloys and even aluminum bearings.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:22.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
XL Forum® - Linson Media LLC