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  #21  
Old 1 Week Ago
60Gunner's Avatar
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Another fix for a problem brought on by the demand for engines with better fuel efficiency and lowered emissions by yours truly. Certainly none of our concern and using an oil designed to reduce lspi wouldn't be in our best interest.
So what's being used for detergents? Magnesium? Calcium?
That aeroshell doesn't seem to replace the zinc with anything. Less than 1ppm of moly. Phosphorous only?

VR1 uses calcium and magnesium(detergents)and silicon as an anti foaming agent.(detergents cause foaming at high rpm)
And besides zinc/phosphorus and a very small amount of moly it also uses borates(boron) which is used as an anti wear/extreme pressure additive and as a secondary side effect also acts as a mild detergent and acid reducing agent. It also helps retain an oil's TBN. Explains why it still has plenty of TBN left even after 5000 miles despite starting out with like 7.6 where most gas engines start out with 8 or 9.
The small amount of moly is probably why some have no issues with it in wet clutches even tho it says not recommended for it.
Pretty nice package that seems to work quite well together and makes it a good race oil as well as street oil.
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Last edited by 60Gunner; 1 Week Ago at 20:34..
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  #22  
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Penn Grade AKA BradPenn or Kendall has a 10.8 TBN, can I still put that olive green oil in my sportster???
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Tomcatt Tomcatt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rejeanprimeau View Post
Penn Grade AKA BradPenn or Kendall has a 10.8 TBN, can I still put that olive green oil in my sportster???
Without 60Gummers' approval? Heresy...
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  #24  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rejeanprimeau View Post
Penn Grade AKA BradPenn or Kendall has a 10.8 TBN, can I still put that olive green oil in my sportster???
No! It will blow up!

Hey I'm just posting this stuff cuz some people are interested in learning about oil and I'm learning myself.
Specifically why this conventional does so well in Harleys compared to synthetic mc oils 3 times the cost.
And yes, that green stuff is good oil in that regard.
TBN(total base number) to put it simply is an acid neutralizer to prevent corosion that gets depleted as oil gets more use. You want to change it before it's completely depleted. How fast it's depleted varies to an extent based on a number of factors including what it starts out as so 10.8 in virgin oil is good.
I learned that borates, used in 2 different forms as an AW additive is activated differently and adheres to metals differently than other AW additives like zddp and is also an acid reducer which aids in TBN lasting longer. Hence theoretically all else being equal a TBN level of lesser amounts to start with along with this acid reducer could last longer than TBN of greater amounts to start with because it makes the oil less acidic so the neutralizer isnt used up as fast.
Follow that?
TBN is pretty important in an oil. Probably more so in a motorcycle. Especially one that sits for extended periods of time and in varying climates.

Boring and geekish? Yes. But a much more scientific way of determining how good your oil is doing it's job than saying hey, it's $14/qt synthetic, my motor runs fine, so does my buddy's and it looks good on my dipstick.

Last edited by 60Gunner; 1 Week Ago at 01:12..
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The Valvoline VR1 20W50 Race Oil is around $8-9 a quart around here, AFAIK.

Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W50 is $9.50 a quart and $28 for a 3 pack at Walmart.

Nothing scientific I see, just use the oil with the minimum requirements by the MoCo and factory change intervals and you're good to go.

Some people just over think things.

Pretty much how I determine what oil I buy, what ever is on special that meets the requirements. I have about 280,000 miles on my 2003 Suburban, oil changed when the "change oil" notice comes up. It spent quite a few of those miles towing.
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the whole reason why oil formulation is changing. a BIG issue with cats is oil burn and with O2 sensors contamination is the additive used in the past.
engine and machining has changed greatly so there is really no need for a lot of the stuff. even viscosity is less of a factor. with newer base materials and lower mass, there is a great reduction in friction. for ex: old cams had .750 cross section, newer one have less than .500. cams used to have to deal with massive spring loads to control heavy single valves, today, small (less mass) multi-valves and less spring pressure are the norm.
wife's new honda is a 1500cc turbo that uses 0-20wt oil, 4 valve cyl and direct injection and redlines 6.5k.
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I have read that excessive moly can contribute to corrosion, has anyone heard anything about that?
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I have used M1, Amsoil MCV and ARO...prefer ARO....just harder to find.....and Lucas....Lucas I did not like....was very noisy, if fact so noisy, I drained it after a little less than 500 miles. All the oils on the market today seem to be good....it usually comes down to subjective feelings or those that promote the qualities of their anointed oil and ignore the negatives assigned to the oil. But makes for good reading on here and some soft toned disagreements.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLW210 View Post
The Valvoline VR1 20W50 Race Oil is around $8-9 a quart around here, AFAIK.

Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W50 is $9.50 a quart and $28 for a 3 pack at Walmart.

Nothing scientific I see, just use the oil with the minimum requirements by the MoCo and factory change intervals and you're good to go.

Some people just over think things.

Pretty much how I determine what oil I buy, what ever is on special that meets the requirements. I have about 280,000 miles on my 2003 Suburban, oil changed when the "change oil" notice comes up. It spent quite a few of those miles towing.
You apparently have totally ignored the prices above. You're in the US. The $5.67 a qt. Pack of 6 has been at Amazon for years. The parts stores it's under $7 a qt.
I assume you're running the VR1 since it's cheapest and that's your only criteria? Otherwise I don't understand your argument. The oil I run is always cheaper than the oil you run. I don't need to buy what's on sale. Save it for the amsoil threads.
Not everyone is running an IH bustert and adding a fresh qt. every 500 miles. ;p

Last edited by 60Gunner; 1 Week Ago at 22:13..
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in times past, we added moly to engine oils in the industrial engines, these were high hp slow turning and ran 24/7.
today, not anymore and yes the moly can do some damage as materials changed. gone are the babbit bearings and now precision insert types with exotic materials like silver alloys and even aluminum bearings.
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