The Sportster and Buell Motorcycle Forum - The XLFORUM®
 

Go Back   The Sportster and Buell Motorcycle Forum - The XLFORUM® > SPORTSTER MOTORCYCLE FORUM > Sportster Motorcycle Era Specific and Model Specific > Ironhead Sportster Motorcycle Talk (1957-1985)
XLF Blogs XLF Arcade XLF Disclaimer/Privacy Statement/Terms Of Use

Notices

Ironhead Sportster Motorcycle Talk (1957-1985) For all those that wanna talk about Ironhead Sportster Motorcycles

Active Threads
0 Please School Me On Carbonite Clutches
Last Post: Crusty
Posted On: 3 Minutes Ago
Replies: 0
Views: 1
0 82 XLH struggling for power
Last Post: doodah man
Posted On: 11 Minutes Ago
Replies: 24
Views: 843
4 Rockerbox spacer ´71 XLH
Last Post: Hank71
Posted On: 18 Minutes Ago
Replies: 0
Views: 1
0 Keep & Kill
Last Post: Crusty
Posted On: 37 Minutes Ago
Replies: 18,955
Views: 1,124,913
0 Sifton cams on stock 74 XLCH
Last Post: kitabel
Posted On: 37 Minutes Ago
Replies: 24
Views: 1,114
0 Hydrostatic fuel gauge
Last Post: doodah man
Posted On: 52 Minutes Ago
Replies: 7
Views: 199
0 Microsquirt EFI Conversion
Last Post: Curbside
Posted On: 52 Minutes Ago
Replies: 13
Views: 372
0 Official XL Forum Random Image Thread (NO NUDITY!)
Last Post: Graywolf
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 48,977
Views: 7,944,026
0 55* this morning
Last Post: mick42
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 16
Views: 822
0 Hottie of the day, no nudity.
Last Post: Stairman
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 24,435
Views: 2,498,241
0 1968 ex barn dweller thread
Last Post: doodah man
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 40
Views: 1,043
0 ....1
Last Post: Graywolf
Posted On: 2 Hours Ago
Replies: 5,936
Views: 342,104
0 Flat Tracker Pics
Last Post: nutball73
Posted On: 2 Hours Ago
Replies: 1,159
Views: 647,517
0 Fork Brace worth the bucks???
Last Post: Highly-Dangerous
Posted On: 3 Hours Ago
Replies: 169
Views: 25,796
0 2021 street bike build for the track
Last Post: madnss
Posted On: 10 Hours Ago
Replies: 26
Views: 643
0 Should I apolgise to Harley Davidson ?
Last Post: brucstoudt
Posted On: 10 Hours Ago
Replies: 43
Views: 2,496
0 What did you do for your sporty Today?
Last Post: skien
Posted On: 11 Hours Ago
Replies: 7,369
Views: 1,095,660
0 Umbilical Hernia surgery report
Last Post: Ireeman
Posted On: 11 Hours Ago
Replies: 0
Views: 69
0 my sunday driver...
Last Post: Steve9
Posted On: 12 Hours Ago
Replies: 38
Views: 6,447
0 This week on Craig's list
Last Post: Gold Member
Posted On: 13 Hours Ago
Replies: 4,922
Views: 695,622
0 -65A mufflers
Last Post: ferretface
Posted On: 14 Hours Ago
Replies: 14
Views: 1,039
0 carbs?
Last Post: jtoaster
Posted On: 14 Hours Ago
Replies: 44
Views: 5,741
0 Are There Still Sober Riders On The Forum?
Last Post: Robyart
Posted On: 15 Hours Ago
Replies: 185
Views: 57,146
0 Chasing a generator noise
Last Post: brucstoudt
Posted On: 18 Hours Ago
Replies: 9
Views: 553
0 Better Brakes
Last Post: Ferrous Head
Posted On: 18 Hours Ago
Replies: 29
Views: 1,922
0 Opinions on Mallory unilite ignition
Last Post: mikethebike61
Posted On: 20 Hours Ago
Replies: 9
Views: 324
0 Hot Chicks on Hot Bikes
Last Post: Stairman
Posted On: 21 Hours Ago
Replies: 11,396
Views: 2,293,772
0 Maxi fuse removal while runnng ..
Last Post: oldboy
Posted On: 22 Hours Ago
Replies: 28
Views: 768
0 S&s
Last Post: mikethebike61
Posted On: 22 Hours Ago
Replies: 3
Views: 220
0 Installing jugs finally but another Q
Last Post: bustert
Posted On: 1 Day Ago
Replies: 10
Views: 415
More...
Members Birthdays
ebikerman (84), nalakk (79), blkjak (77), Dave.N (66), cousincletus (60), stretch7 (58), jockeyshift (56), juice900 (42), sportsterwheelies (40), live_loud (38)
Tags
cam timing, generator, pinion gear

Reply
 
Share Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 7th August 2019
olander olander is offline
Biker
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 4
Sportster/Buell Model: Ironhead
Sportster/Buell Year: 1967
Reputation: 10
olander is an unknown quantity at this point
Exclamation Generator bearing failure -> cam timing out of sync

Hi. New to the forum. With a problem a need some help with.

Was out riding last week. Uphill, 3rd gear, high rev, a sudden loud mechanical noise from the engine then total silence. I squeced the clutch lever and rollled in to the side of the road. Impossible to restart the bike, engine pressing air out of the carburator. Had to get a trailer to get the bike back to the garage.

Took of the valve cover and heads. Both piston, cylinder and valves looked okey . Put it all back together. The problem is still there. Engine will not start and blowing air back trough the carburator.

Took the cam cover of. The cams fell out so couldn’t see if the cam timing was correct. However all cams looked good. Took the generator a part and found it to be stuck with a broken needle bearing. Okey so guess I found what caused the sudden mechanical noise. Put all cams together again, used the (I) mark in the timing hole and timing mark on all valves. But the valves of the front cylinder are out of sync, exhaust and intake valve are open at the same time. This can’t be right! The valves on the rear cylinder seam to be right...not 100% sure.

Has the failed bearing in the generator twisted the gear on the number 4 cam? Since the gear with the timing mark is pressed fitted to the camshaft I guess that can happen?

Or has the pinion gear moved and thereby xxxxed up all the cam timing? How do I know if the pinion gear is correct?

I guess I’m lucky because I’ve not found any other broken parts the bearing in the generator .
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 7th August 2019
72 Ironhead XLH's Avatar
72 Ironhead XLH 72 Ironhead XLH is offline
Senior Master Custom Bike Builder
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: NJ
Posts: 5,927
Sportster/Buell Model: XLH
Sportster/Buell Year: 72
72 Ironhead XLH has disabled reputation
Default

you dont use the vert line in the access hole to install cams
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 8th August 2019
ryder rick's Avatar
ryder rick ryder rick is offline
Senior Master Custom Bike Builder
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Cornelius, OR
Posts: 9,433
Reputation: 1114996
ryder rick has a reputation beyond reputeryder rick has a reputation beyond reputeryder rick has a reputation beyond reputeryder rick has a reputation beyond reputeryder rick has a reputation beyond reputeryder rick has a reputation beyond reputeryder rick has a reputation beyond reputeryder rick has a reputation beyond reputeryder rick has a reputation beyond reputeryder rick has a reputation beyond reputeryder rick has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Cam timing is done by the marks on the cam gears and the pinion, not by the flywheel marks.

They don't call me Ironhead Rick just because I'm hard headed
__________________
Ryder Rick "I know right from wrong, but sometimes, wrong feels right"
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 8th August 2019
IronMick's Avatar
IronMick IronMick is offline
Rider Of The Iron Steed
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: London, ON Canada
Posts: 32,496
Sportster/Buell Model: XLH
Sportster/Buell Year: 1978
Reputation: 1280341
IronMick has a reputation beyond reputeIronMick has a reputation beyond reputeIronMick has a reputation beyond reputeIronMick has a reputation beyond reputeIronMick has a reputation beyond reputeIronMick has a reputation beyond reputeIronMick has a reputation beyond reputeIronMick has a reputation beyond reputeIronMick has a reputation beyond reputeIronMick has a reputation beyond reputeIronMick has a reputation beyond repute
Default

+1 on the above two posts. There is no relationship between ignition timing and cam timing. They should not have used the word "timing" with regard to cams. It causes the same problem for every newguy who comes along, and has for more than a half a century.

Did you remove the pushrods before removing the cam cover? This is an important step. It is possible to do damage to the cam bearings and related parts that are under pressure from the pushrods.
__________________
Mick
IronHead Forever!

Visit Mick's WebSite
[And Check Out My Autobiog]
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 8th August 2019
needspeed needspeed is offline
XL FORUM LIFE MEMBER
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1,303
Sportster/Buell Model: xlh
Sportster/Buell Year: 1974
Reputation: 892822
needspeed has a reputation beyond reputeneedspeed has a reputation beyond reputeneedspeed has a reputation beyond reputeneedspeed has a reputation beyond reputeneedspeed has a reputation beyond reputeneedspeed has a reputation beyond reputeneedspeed has a reputation beyond reputeneedspeed has a reputation beyond reputeneedspeed has a reputation beyond reputeneedspeed has a reputation beyond reputeneedspeed has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by olander View Post
But the valves of the front cylinder are out of sync, exhaust and intake valve are open at the same time.
Every other time the piston comes to top dead center both valves are slightly open in the over lap position. But not fully open.
Quote:
Originally Posted by olander View Post
Has the failed bearing in the generator twisted the gear on the number 4 cam? Since the gear with the timing mark is pressed fitted to the camshaft I guess that can happen?
Yes that can happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by olander View Post
Or has the pinion gear moved and thereby xxxxed up all the cam timing? How do I know if the pinion gear is correct?
The only way the pinion gear can be out of position on your year bike is if the whole pinion shaft sheared its key and rotated in the flywheel. It's not likely. With the cams out you can see the center of the crankpin through the cam bearings. The mark on the pinion gear should point to the center of the crank pin.

As mentioned don't pay attention to the flywheel timing mark when installing cams. Just line up all the cam and pinion gear marks
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 8th August 2019
Iron Mike Iron Mike is offline
Senior Master Bike Builder
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 2,189
Sportster/Buell Model: xlch
Sportster/Buell Year: 1964
Sportster/Buell Model #2: XLCH IR EFI
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1971
Other Motorcycle Model: BMW K1200RS
Other Motorcycle Year: 2001
Reputation: 1421517
Iron Mike has a reputation beyond reputeIron Mike has a reputation beyond reputeIron Mike has a reputation beyond reputeIron Mike has a reputation beyond reputeIron Mike has a reputation beyond reputeIron Mike has a reputation beyond reputeIron Mike has a reputation beyond reputeIron Mike has a reputation beyond reputeIron Mike has a reputation beyond reputeIron Mike has a reputation beyond reputeIron Mike has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Try to blow compressed air through pinion end. That should show if key sheared and shafted rotated.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 8th August 2019
Hopalong48's Avatar
Hopalong48 Hopalong48 is offline
Greasemonkey
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 117
Sportster/Buell Model: XLH
Sportster/Buell Year: 1966
Reputation: 41038
Hopalong48 is a splendid one to beholdHopalong48 is a splendid one to beholdHopalong48 is a splendid one to beholdHopalong48 is a splendid one to beholdHopalong48 is a splendid one to beholdHopalong48 is a splendid one to beholdHopalong48 is a splendid one to beholdHopalong48 is a splendid one to beholdHopalong48 is a splendid one to beholdHopalong48 is a splendid one to beholdHopalong48 is a splendid one to behold
Default

years ago on my 70 XLCH I had a bearing come out of the generator and go thru the cams, I couldnt get it to run correctly until I replaced the cams, I don't know which one was bad I just put in a new more awesome set. I could get it to run on either the front cyl or the rear but never both. while I had the heads off I sent them out for a little tune up. I know I had it apart at least 20 times trying to get it right. everything lined up but if I moved it one of the cams one tooth it would run but poorly. the new generator had a round plate that kept the bearing from falling into the cams.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 8th August 2019
olander olander is offline
Biker
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 4
Sportster/Buell Model: Ironhead
Sportster/Buell Year: 1967
Reputation: 10
olander is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Thanks for all the tips. I’ve found what’s broken. The gear with the timing mark on cam 4 has spun. The gear with the timing mark on cam 2 has broken the woodruff key and spun. So that’s why the cam timing is all out of sync. I will se if I can fixed the cams. Otherwise I will buy new ones. Thanks guys.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 8th August 2019
needspeed needspeed is offline
XL FORUM LIFE MEMBER
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1,303
Sportster/Buell Model: xlh
Sportster/Buell Year: 1974
Reputation: 892822
needspeed has a reputation beyond reputeneedspeed has a reputation beyond reputeneedspeed has a reputation beyond reputeneedspeed has a reputation beyond reputeneedspeed has a reputation beyond reputeneedspeed has a reputation beyond reputeneedspeed has a reputation beyond reputeneedspeed has a reputation beyond reputeneedspeed has a reputation beyond reputeneedspeed has a reputation beyond reputeneedspeed has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Wow. It must have taken a tremendous amount of force to do that to the #2 cam. I'm surprised you don't have broken gear teeth. You should get out the magnifying glass and check everything. You said you had the heads off. No bent valves?

Glad you found the problem/problems.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 8th August 2019
60Gunner's Avatar
60Gunner 60Gunner is offline
Senior Custom Bike Builder
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: United States
Posts: 2,998
Sportster/Buell Model: 1200/1250C
Sportster/Buell Year: 05
Reputation: 3248347
60Gunner has a reputation beyond repute60Gunner has a reputation beyond repute60Gunner has a reputation beyond repute60Gunner has a reputation beyond repute60Gunner has a reputation beyond repute60Gunner has a reputation beyond repute60Gunner has a reputation beyond repute60Gunner has a reputation beyond repute60Gunner has a reputation beyond repute60Gunner has a reputation beyond repute60Gunner has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Yeah, should probably check for bent valves and pushrods. When my front exhaust cam was off a tooth the valve smucked the piston hard enough to put a good dent in it. Fortunately it was a a straight on shot and the the valve was miraculously unscathed.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 16:54.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
XL Forum® - Linson Media LLC