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cam timing, generator, pinion gear

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  #1  
Old 7th August 2019
olander olander is offline
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Exclamation Generator bearing failure -> cam timing out of sync

Hi. New to the forum. With a problem a need some help with.

Was out riding last week. Uphill, 3rd gear, high rev, a sudden loud mechanical noise from the engine then total silence. I squeced the clutch lever and rollled in to the side of the road. Impossible to restart the bike, engine pressing air out of the carburator. Had to get a trailer to get the bike back to the garage.

Took of the valve cover and heads. Both piston, cylinder and valves looked okey . Put it all back together. The problem is still there. Engine will not start and blowing air back trough the carburator.

Took the cam cover of. The cams fell out so couldn’t see if the cam timing was correct. However all cams looked good. Took the generator a part and found it to be stuck with a broken needle bearing. Okey so guess I found what caused the sudden mechanical noise. Put all cams together again, used the (I) mark in the timing hole and timing mark on all valves. But the valves of the front cylinder are out of sync, exhaust and intake valve are open at the same time. This can’t be right! The valves on the rear cylinder seam to be right...not 100% sure.

Has the failed bearing in the generator twisted the gear on the number 4 cam? Since the gear with the timing mark is pressed fitted to the camshaft I guess that can happen?

Or has the pinion gear moved and thereby xxxxed up all the cam timing? How do I know if the pinion gear is correct?

I guess I’m lucky because I’ve not found any other broken parts the bearing in the generator .
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  #2  
Old 7th August 2019
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you dont use the vert line in the access hole to install cams
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Old 8th August 2019
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Cam timing is done by the marks on the cam gears and the pinion, not by the flywheel marks.

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Old 8th August 2019
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+1 on the above two posts. There is no relationship between ignition timing and cam timing. They should not have used the word "timing" with regard to cams. It causes the same problem for every newguy who comes along, and has for more than a half a century.

Did you remove the pushrods before removing the cam cover? This is an important step. It is possible to do damage to the cam bearings and related parts that are under pressure from the pushrods.
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  #5  
Old 8th August 2019
needspeed needspeed is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olander View Post
But the valves of the front cylinder are out of sync, exhaust and intake valve are open at the same time.
Every other time the piston comes to top dead center both valves are slightly open in the over lap position. But not fully open.
Quote:
Originally Posted by olander View Post
Has the failed bearing in the generator twisted the gear on the number 4 cam? Since the gear with the timing mark is pressed fitted to the camshaft I guess that can happen?
Yes that can happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by olander View Post
Or has the pinion gear moved and thereby xxxxed up all the cam timing? How do I know if the pinion gear is correct?
The only way the pinion gear can be out of position on your year bike is if the whole pinion shaft sheared its key and rotated in the flywheel. It's not likely. With the cams out you can see the center of the crankpin through the cam bearings. The mark on the pinion gear should point to the center of the crank pin.

As mentioned don't pay attention to the flywheel timing mark when installing cams. Just line up all the cam and pinion gear marks
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  #6  
Old 8th August 2019
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Try to blow compressed air through pinion end. That should show if key sheared and shafted rotated.
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years ago on my 70 XLCH I had a bearing come out of the generator and go thru the cams, I couldnt get it to run correctly until I replaced the cams, I don't know which one was bad I just put in a new more awesome set. I could get it to run on either the front cyl or the rear but never both. while I had the heads off I sent them out for a little tune up. I know I had it apart at least 20 times trying to get it right. everything lined up but if I moved it one of the cams one tooth it would run but poorly. the new generator had a round plate that kept the bearing from falling into the cams.

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Old 8th August 2019
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Thanks for all the tips. I’ve found what’s broken. The gear with the timing mark on cam 4 has spun. The gear with the timing mark on cam 2 has broken the woodruff key and spun. So that’s why the cam timing is all out of sync. I will se if I can fixed the cams. Otherwise I will buy new ones. Thanks guys.
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Old 8th August 2019
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Wow. It must have taken a tremendous amount of force to do that to the #2 cam. I'm surprised you don't have broken gear teeth. You should get out the magnifying glass and check everything. You said you had the heads off. No bent valves?

Glad you found the problem/problems.
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Yeah, should probably check for bent valves and pushrods. When my front exhaust cam was off a tooth the valve smucked the piston hard enough to put a good dent in it. Fortunately it was a a straight on shot and the the valve was miraculously unscathed.
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