The Sportster and Buell Motorcycle Forum - The XLFORUM®
 

Go Back   The Sportster and Buell Motorcycle Forum - The XLFORUM® > SPORTSTER MOTORCYCLE FORUM > Lubrication and Lubricants
XLF Blogs XLF Arcade XLF Disclaimer/Privacy Statement/Terms Of Use

Notices

Lubrication and Lubricants You guessed. Here is where everyone can argue over oil.

Active Threads
0 Keep & Kill
Last Post: Graywolf
Posted On: 1 Minute Ago
Replies: 32,699
Views: 1,966,641
0 TC Brothers weld on rigid on an early frame
Last Post: PoodlePunche
Posted On: 2 Hours Ago
Replies: 11
Views: 424
0 What did you do for your sporty Today?
Last Post: Toejam503
Posted On: 4 Hours Ago
Replies: 8,068
Views: 1,549,756
0 Sissy bar and rack for 883
Last Post: RandallM
Posted On: 5 Hours Ago
Replies: 10
Views: 417
0 ironhead oil pump pressure
Last Post: joe_black
Posted On: 6 Hours Ago
Replies: 25
Views: 974
10 lone star rescue
Last Post: techson
Posted On: 9 Hours Ago
Replies: 10
Views: 149
0 Food porn
Last Post: Graywolf
Posted On: 9 Hours Ago
Replies: 3,004
Views: 810,366
0 Burly Stilletto 13" shocks or ?
Last Post: Tomcatt
Posted On: 11 Hours Ago
Replies: 41
Views: 1,026
0 Stock vs. Modified (Stage 1)
Last Post: IXL2Relax
Posted On: 11 Hours Ago
Replies: 300
Views: 121,082
0 This is gonna hurt.
Last Post: wedge
Posted On: 13 Hours Ago
Replies: 10,057
Views: 2,512,779
0 Pirelli RT 66 Cruiser Tires
Last Post: sportsterpaul
Posted On: 13 Hours Ago
Replies: 10
Views: 7,477
0 Cobra fi2000 powrpro black
Last Post: sportsterpaul
Posted On: 14 Hours Ago
Replies: 1
Views: 92
0 Upside Down Monoshock IH - A Longterm Project
Last Post: 84rzv500r
Posted On: 17 Hours Ago
Replies: 391
Views: 91,264
0 ‘72 IH…early or late ‘72?
Last Post: needspeed
Posted On: 17 Hours Ago
Replies: 14
Views: 790
0 Spokes or Mags
Last Post: d10221
Posted On: 20 Hours Ago
Replies: 350
Views: 93,756
0 Hot Chicks on Hot Bikes
Last Post: cal43
Posted On: 20 Hours Ago
Replies: 13,569
Views: 3,638,035
0 Official XL Forum Random Image Thread (NO NUDITY!)
Last Post: Stairman
Posted On: 20 Hours Ago
Replies: 56,265
Views: 9,722,715
0 video & pics
Last Post: cal43
Posted On: 20 Hours Ago
Replies: 2,294
Views: 244,332
0 Hottie of the day, no nudity.
Last Post: Stairman
Posted On: 20 Hours Ago
Replies: 40,733
Views: 5,531,515
0 Hot Rods, Rat Rods, and Customs.
Last Post: cal43
Posted On: 21 Hours Ago
Replies: 5,612
Views: 1,354,615
0 Jiffy stand spring
Last Post: rwharris
Posted On: 1 Day Ago
Replies: 13
Views: 292
0 Sidestand Extension/'Pad' ?
Last Post: Chuckthebeatertruck
Posted On: 1 Day Ago
Replies: 17
Views: 2,467
14 What made the best Improvement to your Sporty??
Last Post: wardie
Posted On: 1 Day Ago
Replies: 36
Views: 4,081
0 switching from 16" to 18" rear tire
Last Post: wardie
Posted On: 1 Day Ago
Replies: 2
Views: 238
0 Changed The Fork Oil
Last Post: Nibelungen
Posted On: 1 Day Ago
Replies: 8
Views: 426
0 Ironhead or Evo
Last Post: Andy Hog
Posted On: 1 Day Ago
Replies: 10
Views: 2,574
0 how many run baffles, run open, or just run stock
Last Post: Steve9
Posted On: 2 Days Ago
Replies: 417
Views: 109,352
0 is a buell a harley
Last Post: 84rzv500r
Posted On: 2 Days Ago
Replies: 204
Views: 46,004
0 What song do you have stuck in your head?
Last Post: wardie
Posted On: 2 Days Ago
Replies: 2,638
Views: 320,984
0 HD announces end of the Sportster model
Last Post: John Harper
Posted On: 2 Days Ago
Replies: 55
Views: 5,221
More...
Members Birthdays
mdgtmstng (69), robc (57), 09 sporty (54), bimmer10 (52), DougZ (49), mtntrout, JTedd9 (47), blueoval78 (44), Everett (42)
Reply
 
Share Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
Crusty's Avatar
Crusty Crusty is online now
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Cheviot, OH
Posts: 2,168
Sportster/Buell Model: XL 1200 CX
Sportster/Buell Year: 2016
Sportster/Buell Model #2: XLH 1000
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1978
Other Motorcycle Model: XL 1200 Cussed'em
Other Motorcycle Year: 2006
Reputation: 8214977
Crusty has a reputation beyond reputeCrusty has a reputation beyond reputeCrusty has a reputation beyond reputeCrusty has a reputation beyond reputeCrusty has a reputation beyond reputeCrusty has a reputation beyond reputeCrusty has a reputation beyond reputeCrusty has a reputation beyond reputeCrusty has a reputation beyond reputeCrusty has a reputation beyond reputeCrusty has a reputation beyond repute
Default Why? (synthetic oil bad for breaking in engine?)

Why do people consider synthetic oil bad for breaking in an engine? I've heard many arguments over the years, but none of them make a lot of sense to me. Supposedly, synthetic oil is "too slippery" and won't allow the rings to seat properly. Is there any evidence that can confirm or deny that? Or is it in the same category as Slick 50 is so slippery, it will cause your roller bearings to slide and not roll and that will cause flat spotting.

Erik Buell was putting synthetic oil in the engines of EBR 1190s and I know a few people who ride them and none have experienced either poor piston ring sealing or flat spotted bearings.

I'm breaking in the engine gone through by Dark Horse. When I picked it up, Andrew, the CS Rep, instructed me to break it in using non-synthetic oil.

I'm doing that, but it has me wondering why.

Would it really adversely affect my engine if I were using Syn 3, Amsoil, or Mobil 1 instead of Plain Ol' 20W-50 liquified dinosaurs?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
84rzv500r 84rzv500r is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: On a big rock in the Florida Straights
Posts: 469
Sportster/Buell Model: XL 1200 S....X
Sportster/Buell Year: 1999
Sportster/Buell Model #2: XR-1000 RX
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 83
Other Motorcycle Model: SOLD - RZV500R/R1 hybrid
Other Motorcycle Year: 1984
Reputation: 801324
84rzv500r has a reputation beyond repute84rzv500r has a reputation beyond repute84rzv500r has a reputation beyond repute84rzv500r has a reputation beyond repute84rzv500r has a reputation beyond repute84rzv500r has a reputation beyond repute84rzv500r has a reputation beyond repute84rzv500r has a reputation beyond repute84rzv500r has a reputation beyond repute84rzv500r has a reputation beyond repute84rzv500r has a reputation beyond repute
Default

my experience in 50 years of building and racing is that ring seating is less dependent on oil type and more dependent on bore finish and ring material, proper end gap and thermal cycles (new and in use)... that said if engines have new sliding thingies like flat tappets then i prefer dino oil with some zinc for the first few thermal cycles till they get to know each other... after that synthetic... for rollie thingy motors, synthetic out of the gate not an issue. also for daily runners... for occasional use engines dino or semi syn...
__________________
----
1999 XL 1200 Sport RX, SE 7500 ignition, SE air filter, DynoJet, K&N, Cone Engineering 2:1 pipe, Storz Steering damper, with 2012 XR1200X perf forks, 3.5 x18" wheels front and rear, Galfer stainless lines, XR1200 4 piston front calipers, 18" Dunlop D404 130/70 and Dunlop trailmax mission 140/80-18 rear XR1200X perf shocks, 19/48 530 chain conversion, Dart Flyscreen, Antigravity LiFePO4 battery

1983 XR-1000S to XR-1000RX Project Build Thread
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
Hippysmack's Avatar
Hippysmack Hippysmack is offline
XL FORUM LIFE MEMBER
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 8,975
Sportster/Buell Model: Xl1250S
Sportster/Buell Year: 98
Other Motorcycle Model: Kawasaki Vulcan 500
Other Motorcycle Year: 95
Reputation: 9638800
Hippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond repute
Default

You only get 1 shot at a proper break in.
Per Aaron w/Hammer, some engines aren't ever fully broke in no matter how high the miles.
The theory is that dino oil WILL ALLOW more metal scrappage than synth.
The rings NEED to be able to cut the cylinders into their own shape to achieve proper seal.
Break in is considered the final machining process.
MAKE SURE to change the oil/filter after break in.

The reason there is no pliable data is that when an engine takes a dump, it COULD have been from a number of reasons.
From the forum, sometimes an affect and cause gets very hazy.
If you spin a bearing, was it the oil? was it your heavy hand? was it poor installation? was it? was it? was it?
So using dino is an extra finger to cross in a way.
For those who break in on synth that have good results, they'll scoff at dino break in.
For those that break in on dino with no problems, they'll be happy they did.
And as always, when things go wrong and the cause cannot be fingered, the wonder may always be there.
But each scenario only happens once. The rest is up to the owner/builder to answer later.
__________________
Diagnosis begins before teardown, during and after rebuild.

In Search of Fuel, Sunshine and a Steady Idle.

Reference the XLFORUM'S Sportsterpedia
for additional technical information & advice
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
rokytnji's Avatar
rokytnji rokytnji is offline
XL FORUM LIFE MEMBER
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Texas/Mexican Border
Posts: 3,656
Sportster/Buell Model: xls 1000
Sportster/Buell Year: 1980
Sportster/Buell Model #2: xls 1000
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1983
Other Motorcycle Model: 1200 Chopper XL
Other Motorcycle Year: 1990
Reputation: 6807647
rokytnji has a reputation beyond reputerokytnji has a reputation beyond reputerokytnji has a reputation beyond reputerokytnji has a reputation beyond reputerokytnji has a reputation beyond reputerokytnji has a reputation beyond reputerokytnji has a reputation beyond reputerokytnji has a reputation beyond reputerokytnji has a reputation beyond reputerokytnji has a reputation beyond reputerokytnji has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Dino is cheaper than synth. I am throwing it out anyways sooner than later.

But I am simple minded.
__________________
*Reference the Sportsterpedia! For Helpful info on your scooter.

I'm not outa place. I'm from outer space.

Traveled to
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
Crusty's Avatar
Crusty Crusty is online now
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Cheviot, OH
Posts: 2,168
Sportster/Buell Model: XL 1200 CX
Sportster/Buell Year: 2016
Sportster/Buell Model #2: XLH 1000
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1978
Other Motorcycle Model: XL 1200 Cussed'em
Other Motorcycle Year: 2006
Reputation: 8214977
Crusty has a reputation beyond reputeCrusty has a reputation beyond reputeCrusty has a reputation beyond reputeCrusty has a reputation beyond reputeCrusty has a reputation beyond reputeCrusty has a reputation beyond reputeCrusty has a reputation beyond reputeCrusty has a reputation beyond reputeCrusty has a reputation beyond reputeCrusty has a reputation beyond reputeCrusty has a reputation beyond repute
Default

I believe in early and often oil changes when I'm breaking in a new engine. I change the oil at 50, 250, 500, 1,000 and 2,000 miles before going to longer intervals. Rokytnji makes sense about the money saved by using Dino over synth.

But I still wonder if there any evidence to support either argument. Hippysmack also makes a lot of sense.

Then again the theory of Phlogiston made sense until Lavoisier disproved it.

I will follow Dark Horse's recommendation with the exception that I'll change the oil a bit more often for a while. Still; some objective proof either way would be nice.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
Hippysmack's Avatar
Hippysmack Hippysmack is offline
XL FORUM LIFE MEMBER
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 8,975
Sportster/Buell Model: Xl1250S
Sportster/Buell Year: 98
Other Motorcycle Model: Kawasaki Vulcan 500
Other Motorcycle Year: 95
Reputation: 9638800
Hippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Yes.
Above all else, follow your builder/supplier recommendations (if you value a warranty).
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
Steve9's Avatar
Steve9 Steve9 is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Loxahatchee, FL (S. FL)
Posts: 2,055
Sportster/Buell Model: XLCH
Sportster/Buell Year: 2003
Sportster/Buell Model #2: XL
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1981
Other Motorcycle Model: FXDC
Other Motorcycle Year: 2013
Reputation: 2878885
Steve9 has a reputation beyond reputeSteve9 has a reputation beyond reputeSteve9 has a reputation beyond reputeSteve9 has a reputation beyond reputeSteve9 has a reputation beyond reputeSteve9 has a reputation beyond reputeSteve9 has a reputation beyond reputeSteve9 has a reputation beyond reputeSteve9 has a reputation beyond reputeSteve9 has a reputation beyond reputeSteve9 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Some people use high zinc oil specified as break-in oil. Makes sense to me

I don't think syn would hurt, main thing is dump it soon, as the break in process puts lots of little "broke" particles in the oil

This is just what I think, not a highly experienced opinion.
__________________
Steve
'81 Andrews "Y" cams, K. Black 9-1 pistons
'03 1250 NRHS stage two Lightning heads, SE536 cams, mik flat slide 42
'01 Cyclone stock
'13 FXDC 96" stock
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 3 Weeks Ago
bustert's Avatar
bustert bustert is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 11,175
Sportster/Buell Model: 1200s
Sportster/Buell Year: 2001
Sportster/Buell Model #2: xlch
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1974
Reputation: 3751855
bustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond repute
Default

corvette come factory filled with syn.
mr. 500r nailed it!
hummmm, ring cut to shape of cly?? rings are dynamic, aka, they move around.
i picked up a SWEET deal on a 1974 fx since the guy who rebuilt the top end install the rings upside down and it burned more oil that before, he got scared and bought a new machine.
on ole trick when using chrome rings was to use BON AMI mix in the oil, but get the RIGHT one as the made two, you want the one that says WILL NOT SCRATCH!!!
but then again, goes back to mr. 500r, proper cut.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 3 Weeks Ago
Andy56 Andy56 is online now
Chief Harley Engineer
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: UK
Posts: 517
Sportster/Buell Model: XL1200T
Sportster/Buell Year: 2017
Reputation: 408772
Andy56 has a reputation beyond reputeAndy56 has a reputation beyond reputeAndy56 has a reputation beyond reputeAndy56 has a reputation beyond reputeAndy56 has a reputation beyond reputeAndy56 has a reputation beyond reputeAndy56 has a reputation beyond reputeAndy56 has a reputation beyond reputeAndy56 has a reputation beyond reputeAndy56 has a reputation beyond reputeAndy56 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

A guy I worked with years ago had a Yamaha R1. The manual instructed to use mineral oil for break in and not exceed a certain rpm even when broken in until filled with synthetic oil.

BMW for their M5 used to use mineral oil for the first part of break-in.

My first new BMW came with synthetic oil and it used quite a lot of it for the first 3 to 4,000 miles. Then it didn't use any during the rest of the time I had it covering 122,000 miles.

On a site about karts the guy talks about seating rings in maybe an hour or so using mineral oil and then switching to synthetic for the first race.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 3 Weeks Ago
Whitewalls Whitewalls is offline
Land Speed Record
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Seattle
Posts: 776
Sportster/Buell Model: XLCH
Sportster/Buell Year: 1971
Sportster/Buell Model #2: 1973 HD/Aermacchi TX125
Other Motorcycle Model: 1988 BMW K75
Reputation: 385548
Whitewalls has a reputation beyond reputeWhitewalls has a reputation beyond reputeWhitewalls has a reputation beyond reputeWhitewalls has a reputation beyond reputeWhitewalls has a reputation beyond reputeWhitewalls has a reputation beyond reputeWhitewalls has a reputation beyond reputeWhitewalls has a reputation beyond reputeWhitewalls has a reputation beyond reputeWhitewalls has a reputation beyond reputeWhitewalls has a reputation beyond repute
Default

" Break-in Oil vs. Regular Motor Oil
What is break-in oil? It’s typically conventional-based lubricants containing zinc/phosphorus (ZDDP) and moly anti-wear compounds. ZDDP forms a polar attraction to surfaces in the engine and creates a sacrificial layer. This prevents metal-to-metal contact in areas where a full-fluid oil film cannot exist. For instance, between cam lobes and lifters.
Molybdenum disulfide is a sulfate-based additive that protects against corrosion and oxidation while also reducing friction. We should note that it’s important that engine break-in oil contains an aggressive detergent/dispersant package to trap contaminants and metal particles, keeping them away from engine parts."
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:06.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
XL Forum® - Linson Media LLC