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  #401  
Old 30th October 2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toejam503 View Post
I love this guy's statement. Too bad legalizing seems to be ALL ABOUT THE MONEY.
lol. like there isn't money to be had be criminalizing it. you do know that there is a huge financial infrastructure that is supported by the 'war on drugs' and that it extensively lobbies to keep marijuana illegal because it fears losing that vast revenue right? if not you should look into it. and that is not even counting the industries who lobby against the legalization of cannabis plants because hemp is a direct competition to them, the paper industry and big pharma as an example.

if money is the best reason that is a poor reason to keep it illegal. particularly with what all the studies on it have to say at this current moment in time.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverend G View Post
And your Planck quote was irrelevant. I never asked to discuss anything further.
no it was not irrelevant. it was a quote made by planck on how paradigms are shifted. marijuana criminalization is a paradigm that is being shifted through actual research into the subject that is overturning and exposing the poor reasons in which it was criminalized in the first place. reasons in which millions of americans have suffered legal repercussions effectively destroying their lives for something that should be a choice.

Last edited by tigger; 30th October 2018 at 15:22..
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  #402  
Old 30th October 2018
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Originally Posted by Ireeman View Post
I would like to hear from the never vote...it's cool, Iree doesn't judge.
Hate the stuff since the 60's. I've had lot's of bad experiences with people who are stoned (yes mildly stoned too.) Minors and people with alcohol issues need to stay away from alcohol and minors and A LOT of people have no business getting high.

The rule of thumb for alcoholism is that if you can't live without it you have a problem. The same applies to THC. If drinking/smoking becomes your best friend you have a problem. If drinking/smoking while doing something is better than doing it sober, you have a problem. If you're always thinking about the next time you can get a drink/smoke, you have a problem. It's called addiction (yes, THC is psychologically addictive) https://www.drugabuse.gov/publicatio...uana-addictive

I don't want to be around people who are drunk and I don't want to be around people who are high. My brother is a pot addict since 1974. He's an amazing guy who becomes a complete jerk when he's high. Unfortunately, he's high several times every day. I hate it and wish it didn't exist.
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  #403  
Old 30th October 2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kbetts View Post
Hate the stuff since the 60's. I've had lot's of bad experiences with people who are stoned (yes mildly stoned too.) Minors and people with alcohol issues need to stay away from alcohol and minors and A LOT of people have no business getting high.

The rule of thumb for alcoholism is that if you can't live without it you have a problem. The same applies to THC. If drinking/smoking becomes your best friend you have a problem. If drinking/smoking while doing something is better than doing it sober, you have a problem. If you're always thinking about the next time you can get a drink/smoke, you have a problem. It's called addiction (yes, THC is psychologically addictive) https://www.drugabuse.gov/publicatio...uana-addictive

I don't want to be around people who are drunk and I don't want to be around people who are high. My brother is a pot addict since 1974. He's an amazing guy who becomes a complete jerk when he's high. Unfortunately, he's high several times every day. I hate it and wish it didn't exist.

addiction can cover a huge gamut of things. it is not just substances that people get addicted to. people can be so addicted to sex, shopping or gambling for example that it destroys their lives and sometimes the lives of those around them. i think people should look into the work of Gabor Mate, one of the worlds leading experts on addiction, and those of his peers who are turning over decades of mythology concerning what addiction is and how it is best treated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabor_...A9_(physician)
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  #404  
Old 30th October 2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverend G View Post
Apparently you do not know what logical fallacies are.
I do. Interestingly enough, the above could be characterized as an ad hominem attack...discrediting the integrity of an argument by discrediting the individual making it...specifically, to negate the validity of the application of formal logic by discrediting the opponent's knowledge of said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverend G View Post
Fortunately, I know others who do not wish death on others just so they can get high.
This one is a pretty good example of a straw man in that it twists a previous assertion into a nearly absurd and more easily challenged representation of the original form.

It also assumes the tone of ad hominem as it seeks to call the opponent's moral character to question. A metaphor of attrition is reshaped into a reprehensible disregard for human life in order to discredit the opponent.
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  #405  
Old 31st October 2018
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Originally Posted by Toejam503 View Post
I love this guy's statement. Too bad legalizing seems to be ALL ABOUT THE MONEY.
It's always been about the money. When it's illegal, the pols get their cut from the criminals, to keep themselves out of jail. When it's legal, the pols get their cut from the taxes they levy on it. Apparently, the criminals haven't been paying up, so it's time to get the tax money rolling in.
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  #406  
Old 1st November 2018
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Keep trying. It is not an ad hom to question someone’s knowledge of logical fallacies when they are falsely alleged.

Also your proposition of a straw man is quite reaching. Calling it a “good example” is blatantly absurd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by khav View Post
I do. Interestingly enough, the above could be characterized as an ad hominem attack...discrediting the integrity of an argument by discrediting the individual making it...specifically, to negate the validity of the application of formal logic by discrediting the opponent's knowledge of said.


This one is a pretty good example of a straw man in that it twists a previous assertion into a nearly absurd and more easily challenged representation of the original form.

It also assumes the tone of ad hominem as it seeks to call the opponent's moral character to question. A metaphor of attrition is reshaped into a reprehensible disregard for human life in order to discredit the opponent.

Last edited by Reverend G; 2nd November 2018 at 15:43..
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  #407  
Old 2nd November 2018
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Just responding in kind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tigger View Post
care to discuss any of the issues concerning the topic or are you still conveniently dismissing them out of hand while using a false sense of morality to attack others?

and you talk about blatantly absurd ....
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  #408  
Old 3rd November 2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverend G View Post
Just responding in kind.
in kind as opposed to what specifically?

you should go back and read your replies, the ones where you dismiss any issue brought forth or refuse to talk about issues concerning marijuana criminalization and the associated consequences and costs of marijuana prohibition that have been listed.

when jharback and others have given you a source to read your reply is along these lines "Not really". and after making a claim that "Of course, it is the pro-weed side doing most of the propaganda pushing for decades now." you don't back it up with anything other than your statements. and you yourself said "Someone making a statement does not make the statement true."

which frankly is why i don't believe you. just in that arena for example it's the anti-weed side that is spending millions a year to lobby against the legalization of weed despite what the science data says about it because they are scared of the money they will lose to it. the 5 biggest being ....

police unions. they would lose federal awards like Byrne grants, 2.4 billion in 2014 alone, and marijuana-related property forfeitures around 1 billion from 2002 -2012.

private prison corporations. two of the largest private prison corporations make over a billion a year in tax payer funding (and don't forget they are also traded on the market) with the majority of their inmates being petty offenses for drug related possession crimes, mainly marijuana. and the fact that these companies have stocks that are traded on the market based on the amount of people they have in their prisons alone is enough for them to fight marijuana decriminalization.

prison guard unions. this goes almost hand in hand with the reasons private prison corporations fight marijuana legalization. one police union spent over a million just to fight drug sentencing reform for a 10 fold increase in drug offenders going to prisons. AFSCME spent over 13 million in 2012 and 2.7 million in 2013. this makes sense as over 46% of prison offenders are in there for drug offenses, mainly marijuana, the next highest percentage being 17.9% weapons, explosives and arson offenses. so if you just get rid of most of the petty drug offenses you'd lose the need to have so many guards and so many prisons.

big pharma. 18 million lobbying spent against weed alone in 2013 from just one company. it should be obvious what big pharma fears if just one company alone is willing to spend that much against it a year.

alcohol and beer companies. yeah it should be obvious why they don't want marijuana legal.

and those are the biggest spenders against marijuana legalization. i find it funny that none of them represent the science data on the issue itself and their bottom line is adversely affected when it comes to marijuana being legalized.

but of course i know you a. won't likely read any of this and b. won't respond to any of it anyway other than some contrived dismissal along the lines of "not really". i think you're more concerned with getting the last word, regardless of the lengths or absurdity used to get it, then you are with intelligent conversation on the issue.

Last edited by tigger; 9th November 2018 at 03:07..
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  #409  
Old 4th November 2018
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Very well said tigger,
I’ve followed this thread for awhile from the beginning, And I’ve tried too keep up on this topic since like the early 80’s when the “war on drugs” was really shifted into high gear.
I get some people are for (me), and others are against that’s fine, but don’t infringe on my rights just because of your beliefs with-out valid scientific proof, especially if you won’t even take the time too educate yourself. Some just can’t be bothered.

Kevin M.


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  #410  
Old 7th November 2018
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North Dakota Measure 3 "Legalization of Recreational Marijuana" lost in the election, yesterday (59%-41%). I hope they (pot people) put their efforts into decriminalizing it, maybe they'll get somewhere next time.
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