The Sportster and Buell Motorcycle Forum - The XLFORUM®
 

Go Back   The Sportster and Buell Motorcycle Forum - The XLFORUM® > SPORTSTER MOTORCYCLE FORUM > Lubrication and Lubricants
XLF Blogs XLF Arcade XLF Disclaimer/Privacy Statement/Terms Of Use

Notices

Lubrication and Lubricants You guessed. Here is where everyone can argue over oil.

Active Threads
0 Who's still riding???
Last Post: ed_in_az
Posted On: 5 Minutes Ago
Replies: 39
Views: 1,537
0 Got New Bike - 2002 Sportster Project
Last Post: mzavala2424
Posted On: 6 Minutes Ago
Replies: 14
Views: 209
0 Poll for the legalization of cannabis
Last Post: ed_in_az
Posted On: 12 Minutes Ago
Replies: 424
Views: 54,876
0 After 13 Years, Brake Improvements
Last Post: SLW210
Posted On: 17 Minutes Ago
Replies: 16
Views: 504
0 primary and gear case cover paint.
Last Post: newroadster
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 0
Views: 12
0 Hi from the Netherlands
Last Post: Dutch_Bobber
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 19
Views: 327
0 What riding gear do you have/wear in good and/or poor weather?
Last Post: SLW210
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 105
Views: 32,519
0 Compressor tool
Last Post: rocketmangb
Posted On: 2 Hours Ago
Replies: 1
Views: 38
0 Sportster Primary / Transmission oil analysis
Last Post: shanneba
Posted On: 2 Hours Ago
Replies: 26
Views: 3,340
0 Thinking about restoring my '65 XLCH forks to stock
Last Post: Sprtstr1200s
Posted On: 2 Hours Ago
Replies: 15
Views: 397
0 Royal Enfield V-twin concept at EICMA show
Last Post: sportsterpaul
Posted On: 2 Hours Ago
Replies: 2
Views: 53
0 burrs & grooves in clutch basket
Last Post: sportsterpaul
Posted On: 2 Hours Ago
Replies: 39
Views: 1,058
0 Joe Minton article on HSR 42 tuning
Last Post: jordan1200
Posted On: 3 Hours Ago
Replies: 13
Views: 3,245
0 Anybody Collect Dealer Logo'd Harley T-Shirts?
Last Post: mikeLI_77
Posted On: 4 Hours Ago
Replies: 127
Views: 19,146
0 FLH saddlebags on Easy Brackets
Last Post: Screw Loose Dan
Posted On: 5 Hours Ago
Replies: 11
Views: 265
0 cancer
Last Post: Nibelungen
Posted On: 6 Hours Ago
Replies: 581
Views: 59,971
0 Moto Guzzi V9 Bobber debut
Last Post: Bone
Posted On: 6 Hours Ago
Replies: 41
Views: 2,479
0 Official XL Forum Random Image Thread (NO NUDITY!)
Last Post: Stairman
Posted On: 6 Hours Ago
Replies: 41,996
Views: 6,499,792
0 Ice tire
Last Post: DEEP DIVER
Posted On: 7 Hours Ago
Replies: 1
Views: 59
0 Hottie of the day, no nudity.
Last Post: Stairman
Posted On: 7 Hours Ago
Replies: 8,722
Views: 719,239
0 Food porn
Last Post: Stairman
Posted On: 7 Hours Ago
Replies: 918
Views: 127,238
0 This Mikuni vm38-9 is driving me insane
Last Post: Serious Blac
Posted On: 8 Hours Ago
Replies: 50
Views: 2,913
3 Ironhead Pictures Thread
Last Post: Blowupster
Posted On: 9 Hours Ago
Replies: 1,969
Views: 772,734
0 inlet rubber band available by the meter?
Last Post: eddie XLX
Posted On: 10 Hours Ago
Replies: 26
Views: 1,018
0 Not shifting out of 1st gear or Neutral
Last Post: harley506d
Posted On: 10 Hours Ago
Replies: 1
Views: 86
0 1986-90 Evo Sportsters: What every owner should know but were afraid to ask
Last Post: webman94
Posted On: 10 Hours Ago
Replies: 197
Views: 23,818
0 Metal Polishing
Last Post: Hippysmack
Posted On: 11 Hours Ago
Replies: 24
Views: 1,308
14 Firearms you wish you owned.
Last Post: ed_in_az
Posted On: 13 Hours Ago
Replies: 530
Views: 89,452
0 Average age of the Ironhead forum users
Last Post: Gold Member
Posted On: 13 Hours Ago
Replies: 427
Views: 72,939
More...
Members Birthdays
Sponsored Links
Reply
 
Share Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 7th September 2017
ParrotHead's Avatar
ParrotHead ParrotHead is offline
I am the great Cornholio!
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Near Philly
Posts: 7,554
Sportster/Buell Model: 1200R
Sportster/Buell Year: 2006
Sportster/Buell Model #2: 1200R
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 2007
Other Motorcycle Model: Suzuki GT550
Other Motorcycle Year: 1974
Reputation: 5975400
ParrotHead has a reputation beyond reputeParrotHead has a reputation beyond reputeParrotHead has a reputation beyond reputeParrotHead has a reputation beyond reputeParrotHead has a reputation beyond reputeParrotHead has a reputation beyond reputeParrotHead has a reputation beyond reputeParrotHead has a reputation beyond reputeParrotHead has a reputation beyond reputeParrotHead has a reputation beyond reputeParrotHead has a reputation beyond repute
Default

You are probably correct on the source of the aluminum. it should only wear when engaging/disengaged as that is when there is slip.


What drove me to replace mine was the primary chain having a tight spot. I elected to replace everything at once. However, since then I have been having issues and right now it looks like the inner hub was the culprit as the splines were worn and had a burr on them that the clutch was binding on. Now why it had a burr I have no idea.

I also found the base of the inner hub where the inside fiber disk sites was worn and had grooves in it. That was with maybe 15-17,000 miles on it.

Issues with my clutch: Squealing when I let it out and the adjustment was so bad that as soon as I moved the clutch lever the clutch it was disengaged. I suspect the plates were binding on the hub for some reason. I was running a Barnett clutch installed new with everything else in May
__________________
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I require the same from them."
John Wayne - "The Shootist"

Check out my Blog for my trip reports:

Click here to listen to my interview on the Motorcycle Men Podcast

Click here for the Sportsterpedia! for technical information & advice
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 7th September 2017
shanneba shanneba is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Franklin, Indiana
Posts: 1,403
Sportster/Buell Model: XL1200C
Sportster/Buell Year: 2013
Reputation: 1361431
shanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond repute
Default

I did have some squealing right after the clutch was installed, it was better after the change to the MT-90 lube but did return about 500 miles before the 10,000 mile fluid change and the clutch was adjusted. This time a very light squealing started just a ride or two before the fluid change.

Maybe I'll do two 5000 mile changes with the 75w-90, I have an extra quart I bought for my car a while back. It really needs to use the 75w-90NS version.
Might be interesting to compare the total wear of the two to the previous two lubes.
__________________
2013 XL1200C

Find your Owner's Manual, Wiring Diagram and Parts List here :

https://serviceinfo.harley-davidson....cle/lookupForm
Enter your VIN OR
Use the search - enter year and model

If something doesn't work on your Sportster look here:
SportsterPedia.com

Last edited by shanneba; 7th September 2017 at 20:42..
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 6 Days Ago
shanneba shanneba is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Franklin, Indiana
Posts: 1,403
Sportster/Buell Model: XL1200C
Sportster/Buell Year: 2013
Reputation: 1361431
shanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Latest primary/transmission UOA from my 2013 XL1200C running Red Line 75w-90 for 10,000 miles.

Running Red Line 75w-90 again.
I have been just adding a full quart at each change.

This time I leaned the bike upright (slightly to the right) and filled from a second quart to the bottom of the clutch spring.
Added another 4 ounces or so. I may be slightly over filled this time.

Blackstone Comments:
This is the most metal we've found from your transmission to-date. Aluminum and iron are both
much higher than last time, suggesting a problem is developing. Copper improved a bit, but it's still high
enough to show poor wear at brass/bronze parts. Silicon may be some sort of additive, but check to make
sure there's no place for dirt to get into the system and cause extra wear. Insolubles were high, suggesting
this oil was exposed to excess heat/use, so perhaps excess heat can account for the extra metal. Check
back in 5,000 miles and proceed with caution.


Code:
+----------------+-----------+-----------+----------+
| Miles on oil   | 10000     | 10000     | 10000    |
| Total miles    | 15000     | 25000     | 35000    |
| Date           | 03/26/16  | 08/16/17  | 10/30/18 |
| Make up oil    | 0         | 0         |          |
| Oil Brand      | Red Line  | Red Line  | Red Line |
| Weight         | MT-90     | 75w-110   | 75w-90   |
|                |           |           |          |
|                |           |           |          |
| ALUMINUM       | 82        | 81        | 124      |
| CHROMIUM       | 0         | 0         | 0        |
| IRON           | 58        | 74        | 101      |
| COPPER         | 21        | 56        | 42       |
| LEAD           | 2         | 1         | 1        |
| TIN            | 0         | 0         | 1        |
| MOLYBDENUM     | 16        | 6         | 7        |
| NICKEL         | 1         | 1         | 1        |
| MANGANESE      | 1         | 1         | 1        |
| SILVER         | 0         | 0         | 0        |
| TITANIUM       | 0         | 0         | 0        |
| POTASSIUM      | 2         | 3         | 3        |
| BORON          | 137       | 131       | 164      |
| SILICON        | 49        | 77        | 76       |
| SODIUM         | 5         | 8         | 7        |
| CALCIUM        | 2933      | 408       | 119      |
| MAGNESIUM      | 109       | 23        | 7        |
| PHOSPHORUS     | 1957      | 2930      | 3029     |
| ZINC           | 2199      | 392       | 162      |
| BARIUM         | 0         | 1         | 1        |
|                |           |           |          |
| SUS @ 210F     | 77.2      | 92.7      | 78.9     |
| cSt @ 100C     | 14.83     | 18.63     | 15.25    |
| Flashpoint F   | 440       | 435       | 410      |
| Fuel         % |           |           |          |
| Antifreeze %   |           |           |          |
| Water       %  | 0         | 0         | 0        |
| Insolubles %   | TR        | 0.4       | 0.8      |
+----------------+-----------+-----------+----------+
Blackstone shows the universal averages of wear metals as ~5700 miles.
Here is what I get they should approxmately be for 10,000 miles.
My iron wear does not look too bad.
Alum is a little high, maybe wear on the pressure plate from the heavier spring?

Code:
+--------------+--------------+------------+
|  Universal   |  times 1.75  |            |
| ~ 5700 miles | ~10000 miles |            |
+--------------+--------------+------------+
| 9            | 16           | ALUMINUM   |
| 0            | 0            | CHROMIUM   |
| 47           | 82           | IRON       |
| 6            | 11           | COPPER     |
| 1            | 2            | LEAD       |
| 1            | 2            | TIN        |
| 0            | 0            | NICKEL     |
| 1            | 2            | MANGANESE  |
| 0            | 0            | SILVER     |
| 0            | 0            | TITANIUM   |
| 5            | 9            | POTASSIUM  |
+--------------+--------------+------------+

Last edited by shanneba; 3 Hours Ago at 15:06..
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 6 Days Ago
John Harper John Harper is online now
Master Custom Bike Builder
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 3,084
Sportster/Buell Model: XLH 883
Sportster/Buell Year: 1991
Reputation: 1534192
John Harper has a reputation beyond reputeJohn Harper has a reputation beyond reputeJohn Harper has a reputation beyond reputeJohn Harper has a reputation beyond reputeJohn Harper has a reputation beyond reputeJohn Harper has a reputation beyond reputeJohn Harper has a reputation beyond reputeJohn Harper has a reputation beyond reputeJohn Harper has a reputation beyond reputeJohn Harper has a reputation beyond reputeJohn Harper has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Very cool that you have gone to the trouble to do this and post results. Thank you.

What are your ideas, based on the information and conclusions provided?

John
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 6 Days Ago
shanneba shanneba is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Franklin, Indiana
Posts: 1,403
Sportster/Buell Model: XL1200C
Sportster/Buell Year: 2013
Reputation: 1361431
shanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond repute
Default

I always just added one quart, the service manual says for a drain and fill. This time I stood the bike against the wall (almost level) and to get the fluid to the bottom of the clutch spring I had to add about 4 ounces more oil after the quart.

I am running the same fluid so I will see if that makes a difference in 10,000 miles
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 6 Days Ago
Four Speed Four Speed is offline
Senior Chief Know It All 1st Class
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,160
Sportster/Buell Model: Sportster 883 Hugger
Sportster/Buell Year: 1988
Reputation: 338882
Four Speed has a reputation beyond reputeFour Speed has a reputation beyond reputeFour Speed has a reputation beyond reputeFour Speed has a reputation beyond reputeFour Speed has a reputation beyond reputeFour Speed has a reputation beyond reputeFour Speed has a reputation beyond reputeFour Speed has a reputation beyond reputeFour Speed has a reputation beyond reputeFour Speed has a reputation beyond reputeFour Speed has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Shanneba, thanks again for these very useful data. It confirms once again that the GL-4 MT-90 manual trans lube is better suited
in a manual transmission than the GL-5 hypoid lubes for copper! This is particularly relevant in the four speeds that have a number
of copper bearings. Surprisingly, the GL-4 is better for iron content as well. I wonder if the extra calcium in the MT-90 is from calcium
sulfonate? Could that explain the reduced iron?

It rather serves to question why Redline tell folks to use their hypoid 75W90 GL5 in our manual trans, yet they 'never tested' their GL4 MT-90
'manual transmission' fluid; which evidently works better in a 'manual transmission' and is probably better for the clutch and alternator!

I agree that fluid level is important, so I look forward to those data. I use to just add by volume but after I started using the fill level screw
(it let out an ounce or so), there was less clutch drag and smoother shifting.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 5 Days Ago
Tucsonmax1 Tucsonmax1 is offline
Greasemonkey
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 134
Sportster/Buell Model: Custom 1200
Sportster/Buell Year: 2018
Reputation: 10
Tucsonmax1 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Since the Primary is a Splash Lube, I don't think the extra 4 Ounces will make much difference. Maybe its like some of the FI Cleaner bottles I looked at. Some are filled more than others. Of the Same brand and product. Oil Expands when Hot. Maybe that's why HD only calls for 1 Qt?
__________________
Tucsonmax1 2018 Sportster 1200 Custom, 2016 Hyundai Tucson SE AWD
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 5 Days Ago
Four Speed Four Speed is offline
Senior Chief Know It All 1st Class
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,160
Sportster/Buell Model: Sportster 883 Hugger
Sportster/Buell Year: 1988
Reputation: 338882
Four Speed has a reputation beyond reputeFour Speed has a reputation beyond reputeFour Speed has a reputation beyond reputeFour Speed has a reputation beyond reputeFour Speed has a reputation beyond reputeFour Speed has a reputation beyond reputeFour Speed has a reputation beyond reputeFour Speed has a reputation beyond reputeFour Speed has a reputation beyond reputeFour Speed has a reputation beyond reputeFour Speed has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Since the Primary is a Splash Lube, I don't think the extra 4 Ounces will make much difference
In fact, it could just result in oil churning and increased frictional losses:
https://www.machinerylubrication.com...icant-churning
https://etd.ohiolink.edu/!etd.send_f...osition=inline
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #19  
Old 4 Days Ago
Tucsonmax1 Tucsonmax1 is offline
Greasemonkey
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 134
Sportster/Buell Model: Custom 1200
Sportster/Buell Year: 2018
Reputation: 10
Tucsonmax1 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

I just changed my Oils and Filter today. Had about 2k Miles. Was last done in June. Came out Dirty. Do a lot of short trips. This week looks like a No Ride week. Temps near Freezing most of the week. And Rain/Snow. Put 1 Qt in Primary. Added a little more. But just below the Opening. Changed my Derby cover to a matching Arlen Ness unit. Used another Bosch 3330. Earlier this week I changed to a Twin Power Lithium. Again had trouble starting (40F). Starting to wonder if my Schumacher SP6 is working correctly?
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 4 Days Ago
sportsterdoc's Avatar
sportsterdoc sportsterdoc is offline
Senior Master Custom Bike Builder
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Mojave Desert
Posts: 12,875
Sportster/Buell Model: 1200S
Sportster/Buell Year: 2002
Sportster/Buell Model #2: XLH883
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 2003
Reputation: 4586238
sportsterdoc has a reputation beyond reputesportsterdoc has a reputation beyond reputesportsterdoc has a reputation beyond reputesportsterdoc has a reputation beyond reputesportsterdoc has a reputation beyond reputesportsterdoc has a reputation beyond reputesportsterdoc has a reputation beyond reputesportsterdoc has a reputation beyond reputesportsterdoc has a reputation beyond reputesportsterdoc has a reputation beyond reputesportsterdoc has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tucsonmax1 View Post
Since the Primary is a Splash Lube, I don't think the extra 4 Ounces will make much difference. Maybe its like some of the FI Cleaner bottles I looked at. Some are filled more than others. Of the Same brand and product. Oil Expands when Hot. Maybe that's why HD only calls for 1 Qt?
Rigid EVOs take 28 ounces. Confirm manual calls for 32 for 2018?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Sponsored Links
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 18:53.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
XL Forum® - Linson Media LLC