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  #21  
Old 13th September 2021
Andy56 Andy56 is offline
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The UK has emissions tests on cars but not bikes.
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  #22  
Old 16th September 2021
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krono krono is offline
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Well, thanks for all the tips.

These days I was studying the operation of the CV40 carburetor, and also how to read the gas inspection sheet.

Taking the values ​​from the inspection sheet, at first glance it doesn't say much, they don't really tell you what happens. They want you to pay for a workshop to do it.

There is a whole industry around inspection here. In Spain too. They rent you tires, exhausts, etc. For example renting original Harley exhausts costs 150 dollars !! Crazy!! They have done a whole cottage industry around passing the inspection ...

Here I went to the man who was recommended to me, the one with the dynamometer that in turn measures gases too with a machine, but he budget me 140 dollars for adjusting the carburetor, which seems crazy to me, so thank you very much, but I left.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rokytnji View Post
if no miles on bike. I have a 04 with 20,000 miles with good compression.

OP probably screwed the compression test due to virgin territory for him.
I really don't know how many miles this bike has, it came with a destroyed speedometer. I replaced it with a GPS speedometer to pass the inspection. It seems that it has a lot of miles due to the wear of the buttons, they are concave from use ... From the import registration sheet this motorcycle entered Costa Rica from the US, with about 65 thousand miles (it is quite common here to import used vehicles from the US)


Quote:
Originally Posted by ZCarFan View Post
How about leaning out the idle mixture and re-test which was mentioned earlier? Easy and most logical steps first. High CO means it's rich.

I may have missed it in an earlier post, but what will it cost to re-test? If free or minimal cost, just tweak what you can and stop pondering the worst-case scenarios.
Re test cost is 10 $, the problem is that the motorcycle is not registered to circulate, to go to the inspection you should ask for a crane, those charge 150 USD approximately ... this time I played it, I was avoiding the road patrol using Waze... that is, every time I go, I gamble the police stop me and take my motorcycle away, They also take away your license and suspend you for a year ... That is why I must calculate very well what I am going to do.

Continue adjusting myself:

First put the CO, HC, CO2 values ​​in a formula I found, the Brettschneider equation.
The Brettschneider equation is the de-facto standard method used to calculate the normalized air/fuel balance (Lambda) for domestic and international I&M inspection programs.

It is taken from a paper written by Dr. Johannes Brettschneider, at Robert Bosch in 1979 and published in "Bosch technische Berichte", Vol 6 (1979) N0. 4, Pgs 177-186. In the paper, Dr. Brettschneider established a method to calculate Lambda (Balance of Oxygen to Fuel) by comparing the ratio of oxygen molecules to carbon and hydrogen molecules in the exhaust.
With my values:

CO 6,1% - HC 431 ppm - CO2 5% -- all idle

I got lambda 0,712 or A/F ratio 10.47, very rich

This is at idle. High CO readings usually indicate a fuel mixture richer than ideal.

Low carbon dioxide (CO2) readings indicate a fuel mixture either too rich or too lean, exhaust system leaks, sample dilution or in general - bad combustion process.

So I closed the IMS screw, I plan to go this friday to test again. There is monsoon season here, today there was hurricane and all, so quite hard to leave my shelter to do this for now...

Also lots of carbon inside the Supertrapp, was caked in carbon, I cleaned it inside with a wire brush, water and dish soap, the carbon was caked in the discs

I put just 1 turn of the idle mixture screw (IMS) from seated. Kept the jets basically because I did not had others and did had money left for more jets (around USD 10 each here!)

So my setup now is

Carb pilot jet 42 (came with 48 from previous owner), main jet 185 (came with it, I dont have another for now), 1 turn of IMS

Supertrapp 2:1 with 12 discs

Air filter > round generic high flow , brand new

Spark Plug drag specialities, brand new, cleaned

Wires 10 mm Dragon Fire, brand new

Castrol 20w50 oil engine + Drag Sp oil filter, brand new

Fuel 98 octane + etanol + smoke cleaner aditive Akron GreenRoad (https://akron.com.mx/greenroad, maybe snakeoil but was cheap so why not)


QUESTION

Since I'm with this, I want to tune the engine. The mixture seems to be terribly fat at WOT, with a lot of gasoline smell and black smoke.

Now at idle it does not throw black smoke anymore, nor does it fail to accelerate with a warm engine, ocasionally farts with engine cold or warm (like it should?).

But with full throttle WOT, it shoots black smoke, so I guess the 185 jet is too big?

What jet should I place? 170? 175? smaller? -- most important question of all this

They are quite expensive here, and there is only one place that sells them that is very far away, so I should think very well what jet I buy, I plan to go before Friday to get jets, I have less than 30 days to solve this or lose the registration process and have to start again, damn bureaucrats.


I will leave links, so that this thread is useful for future people who read.

BRETTSCHNEIDER EQUATION CALCULATOR



FOR THIS EQUATION

HCV – atomic ratio of hydrogen to carbon in fuel,
OCV – atomic ratio of oxygen to carbon in fuel,

// constants
lambda = 1;
afratio = 14.7;

// USA fuel constants
USA_K = 3.5;
USA_Ocv = .0170;
USA_Hcv = 1.98;

// Euro fuel Constanss
EURO_K = 3.5;
EURO_Ocv = .0176;
EURO_Hcv = 1.7261;

online calculator:

http://www.factorypro.com/tech/Brett...lculations.htm

equation corrected for gasoline : https://www.bridgeanalyzers.com/serv...eider-equation

I followed these instructions for the CV 40 setup

http://sportsterpedia.com/doku.php/techtalk:evo:carb02

also Costa Rica conditions: high altitude, hot air (40 C) and high humidiy (monsoon season) = richer mixture, so I leaned it to 1 turn

EXHAUST EMISSIONS WHOLE INFO

http://www.crypton.co.za/Tto%20know/...emissions.html

Lambda vs AFR : http://blog.innovatemotorsports.com/...he-difference/

Interesting examples

https://www.austincc.edu/wkibbe/lambda.htm


Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitewalls View Post
I had no idea that some countries had routine emissions testing for motorcycles.
The State of Washington permanently eliminated emissions testing for all types of vehicles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy56 View Post
The UK has emissions tests on cars but not bikes.

I am sure that this type of testing is going to invade the countries, tightening the knot around the neck of the citizen more and more.

So far I know three countries that test their motorcycles, Costa Rica, Argentina and Spain, but I'm sure there are many more. And every year the gas and noise limits are stricter. And severe penalties. If they find you driving without inspection, they take away your vehicle and your license. It is a neo feudalism.

Here, for example, 2T motorcycles can no longer circulate, the owners who had them screwed up, their property was rendered useless even though it is mechanically perfectly fine and in good condition.

As it is not good to say that they do not let you circulate, they simply put requirements that you cannot meet.

So 2T engines are not banned, but it would be impossible to make them meet these emissions.

You know that in 2035 Europe wants to stop selling internal combustion cars. I think neofeudalism comes from there, they test it in small countries like Costa Rica, and then they implement it.

So my problem, although it seems mechanical, is political ... Anyway, I'm sure for complaining they already put me on a blacklist ...


Quote:
Originally Posted by bustert View Post
what good is the catalytic insert, just a BIG waste of money. for it to work, it has to get around 600*f and that is not going to happen at idle.
reconfirm compression and follow with leak down test if the numbers hold the same.
i would rethink the $$$ offer to the inspector, might windup the motorcycle is the least of your problems.
that insert reminds me of an ole trick> two bars of lava soap in a wool sock inside the air cleaner for a 20% gain in horse power. oh! BTW, i got a bridge to sell cheap, located in brooklyn, ny.
BONUS TRACK

Catalytic insert

I think it could work, although it seems that they are selling me a bridge, it is only worth 15 dollars, I am not going to buy it for now, but from what I have been seeing of videos of Spaniards passing their inspection it is used a lot. It is placed not at the end of the exhaust, but between the head and the exhaust, so that it takes temperature. You also have to go from your house to the inspection (15 km by highway in my case), and never turn off the engine, you can spend half an hour or more waiting with the engine regulating, so I think if it would reach the right temperature ... .for now do not buy it ... All the Spanish inspection advice say that you go with the engine and the exhaust very hot ...

FINAL WORDS

Well, thanks for the valuable advice, I hope you can tell me if I put a jet 170 or 175 or other? Now it has a 185 that seems too fat for this motorcycle 883

OIL consumption: For now it seems that it does not consume oil, if I consumed they offered me LIQUI MOLY OIL STOP, that is the product available here ... what do you think? I also can get STP STOP SMOKE...
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  #23  
Old 16th September 2021
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A lot of that black smoke at WOT could be built up carbon deposits being blown out with a good long run?
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  #24  
Old 16th September 2021
Andy56 Andy56 is offline
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Quote:
Re test cost is 10 $, the problem is that the motorcycle is not registered to circulate, to go to the inspection you should ask for a crane, those charge 150 USD approximately ... this time I played it, I was avoiding the road patrol using Waze... that is, every time I go, I gamble the police stop me and take my motorcycle away, They also take away your license and suspend you for a year ... That is why I must calculate very well what I am going to do.
At least here so long as you have a test booked you can drive the vehicle to the test centre.

Black smoke is generally considered a rich mixture.
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  #25  
Old 16th September 2021
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wedge wedge is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomcatt View Post
You shouldn't need to. Just leaning your idle mixture, by turning the IMS in (clockwise if you're looking at the slot in the screws' head) should be enough. Be careful about raising the idle speed, these carbs run the throttle blade right on the transfer ports and it's easy to richen the mixture when you raise the idle speed because you expose (and pull fuel thru) the transfer ports.
Bingo.

This sounds like it could be much of the problem since you mentioned that you raised the idle speed. You need to lower the idle speed as much as possible, leave the 42 in there (that is stock and is already too lean in most places near sea level) a 160 main will only starve the top end and cause issues that won't help you since they are checking this at idle and the main jet is not even in the picture until you get up past 70 or 80 MPH. You can (and I have) leave the main jet on the bench and it will run great at idle and up to around 70 or so with no main jet that leaves a hole the size of your head to pass gas.

Also, use some top end cleaner like STP in the fuel, and spray a bunch through the carb while reving up the engine to help free up stuck rings (very likely in a bike that has sat a long time). You could remove the plugs and spray some into the cylinders to soak down into the rings too. My daughters car had one very low cylinder (compression) many years ago, and that above treatment cleared it up and it was fine for a few years until she got rid of the car (we checked it a few times over the years and compression was good after that).

Tomcat mentioned the throttle plate. That's IMPORTANT. You need to get this to idle as slow as possible (by backing off on idle speed) and get the mix screw turned in as much as possible. Once that throttle plate starts opening it draws fuel from the transfer ports and that is making your idle way too rich.

So clean that top end and lets see if the compression comes back to good. Don't change jets until you try that and try inspection again, with lowered idle speed, and with mix screw turned down as much as you can get away with.

Oh, I bought a Toyota engine used from Japan from a place that sold them here, and after being on a ship for a while the valves were not seating and compression was near zero. That same method freed them up and that engine was in my truck for a lot of years. I sprayed top end cleaner directly on the valves through the ports as it sat on the floor to loosen up the valves. Did another compression check while still on the floor and it was excellent and it stayed that way.
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Last edited by wedge; 16th September 2021 at 20:35..
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  #26  
Old 18th September 2021
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Well thank you all, your advice is greatly appreciated.

I did it !! The bike I approve, barely, but I approve !! See you next year...

But hey, no day is perfect, returning on the highway all happy with the traffic sticker, I hit a bird in the mirror and I destroy it ... to spend more money on a mirror: S

Well, I leave the values, with the configuration that I comment, the gas reading was:

Setup: Carb pilot jet 42, main jet 185, 1 turn of IMS

All idle

CO : 3,2%
HC : 480 ppm
CO2 : 4%

That gives us a LAMBDA of 0.758, or AFR 11.15

Seems it is still too rich... but cold, oil never went up 150 F , even in a long highway ride at 40 C in dense traffic, and later about half hour at idle waiting to be tested (Long queue, I think of ten bikes the only one I approved was mine, one was very upset, he almost hit the inspector and everything ...)

The surprising thing is that the bike continues to work very well, as if it is real that there is plenty of gasoline, it does not even fart the carburetor. Is it because here there is a lot of humidity, a lot of altitude, a lot of heat? Should I put a jet 40?

I would like to target 12.2 to 13.5 AFR, what should I do?

I suspect that these types of tests will be more and more strict, and each time they will be done in more countries, to satisfy the Taliban of ecology ... they want you to eat crickets, go on the self-driven electric bus to your work in the cubicle, consume their products and obey their propaganda.

I hope I don't read this in 10 years and be right ...

Anyway, now I just need a mirror and roll!




PS We will see what happens when the pandemic passes and I can return home, I have an 883 waiting for me at the airport that has not turned on for two years ...
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  #27  
Old 18th September 2021
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Occam’s Razor: the simplest solution is almost always the best.

In this case, simply turning the idle mixture screw.
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