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  #11  
Old 7th September 2017
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You are probably correct on the source of the aluminum. it should only wear when engaging/disengaged as that is when there is slip.


What drove me to replace mine was the primary chain having a tight spot. I elected to replace everything at once. However, since then I have been having issues and right now it looks like the inner hub was the culprit as the splines were worn and had a burr on them that the clutch was binding on. Now why it had a burr I have no idea.

I also found the base of the inner hub where the inside fiber disk sites was worn and had grooves in it. That was with maybe 15-17,000 miles on it.

Issues with my clutch: Squealing when I let it out and the adjustment was so bad that as soon as I moved the clutch lever the clutch it was disengaged. I suspect the plates were binding on the hub for some reason. I was running a Barnett clutch installed new with everything else in May
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  #12  
Old 7th September 2017
shanneba shanneba is offline
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I did have some squealing right after the clutch was installed, it was better after the change to the MT-90 lube but did return about 500 miles before the 10,000 mile fluid change and the clutch was adjusted. This time a very light squealing started just a ride or two before the fluid change.

Maybe I'll do two 5000 mile changes with the 75w-90, I have an extra quart I bought for my car a while back. It really needs to use the 75w-90NS version.
Might be interesting to compare the total wear of the two to the previous two lubes.
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Last edited by shanneba; 7th September 2017 at 20:42..
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  #13  
Old 1 Week Ago
shanneba shanneba is offline
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Latest primary/transmission UOA from my 2013 XL1200C running Red Line 75w-90 for 10,000 miles.

Running Red Line 75w-90 again.
I have been just adding a full quart at each change.

This time I leaned the bike upright (slightly to the right) and filled from a second quart to the bottom of the clutch spring.
Added another 4 ounces or so. I may be slightly over filled this time.

Blackstone Comments:
This is the most metal we've found from your transmission to-date. Aluminum and iron are both
much higher than last time, suggesting a problem is developing. Copper improved a bit, but it's still high
enough to show poor wear at brass/bronze parts. Silicon may be some sort of additive, but check to make
sure there's no place for dirt to get into the system and cause extra wear. Insolubles were high, suggesting
this oil was exposed to excess heat/use, so perhaps excess heat can account for the extra metal. Check
back in 5,000 miles and proceed with caution.


Code:
+----------------+-----------+-----------+----------+
| Miles on oil   | 10000     | 10000     | 10000    |
| Total miles    | 15000     | 25000     | 35000    |
| Date           | 03/26/16  | 08/16/17  | 10/30/18 |
| Make up oil    | 0         | 0         |          |
| Oil Brand      | Red Line  | Red Line  | Red Line |
| Weight         | MT-90     | 75w-110   | 75w-90   |
|                |           |           |          |
|                |           |           |          |
| ALUMINUM       | 82        | 81        | 124      |
| CHROMIUM       | 0         | 0         | 0        |
| IRON           | 58        | 74        | 101      |
| COPPER         | 21        | 56        | 42       |
| LEAD           | 2         | 1         | 1        |
| TIN            | 0         | 0         | 1        |
| MOLYBDENUM     | 16        | 6         | 7        |
| NICKEL         | 1         | 1         | 1        |
| MANGANESE      | 1         | 1         | 1        |
| SILVER         | 0         | 0         | 0        |
| TITANIUM       | 0         | 0         | 0        |
| POTASSIUM      | 2         | 3         | 3        |
| BORON          | 137       | 131       | 164      |
| SILICON        | 49        | 77        | 76       |
| SODIUM         | 5         | 8         | 7        |
| CALCIUM        | 2933      | 408       | 119      |
| MAGNESIUM      | 109       | 23        | 7        |
| PHOSPHORUS     | 1957      | 2930      | 3029     |
| ZINC           | 2199      | 392       | 162      |
| BARIUM         | 0         | 1         | 1        |
|                |           |           |          |
| SUS @ 210F     | 77.2      | 92.7      | 78.9     |
| cSt @ 100C     | 14.83     | 18.63     | 15.25    |
| Flashpoint F   | 440       | 435       | 410      |
| Fuel         % |           |           |          |
| Antifreeze %   |           |           |          |
| Water       %  | 0         | 0         | 0        |
| Insolubles %   | TR        | 0.4       | 0.8      |
+----------------+-----------+-----------+----------+
Blackstone shows the universal averages of wear metals as ~5700 miles.
Here is what I get they should approxmately be for 10,000 miles.
My iron wear does not look too bad.
Alum is a little high, maybe wear on the pressure plate from the heavier spring?

Code:
+--------------+--------------+------------+
|  Universal   |  times 1.75  |            |
| ~ 5700 miles | ~10000 miles |            |
+--------------+--------------+------------+
| 9            | 16           | ALUMINUM   |
| 0            | 0            | CHROMIUM   |
| 47           | 82           | IRON       |
| 6            | 11           | COPPER     |
| 1            | 2            | LEAD       |
| 1            | 2            | TIN        |
| 0            | 0            | NICKEL     |
| 1            | 2            | MANGANESE  |
| 0            | 0            | SILVER     |
| 0            | 0            | TITANIUM   |
| 5            | 9            | POTASSIUM  |
+--------------+--------------+------------+

Last edited by shanneba; 5 Days Ago at 15:06..
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  #14  
Old 1 Week Ago
John Harper John Harper is offline
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Very cool that you have gone to the trouble to do this and post results. Thank you.

What are your ideas, based on the information and conclusions provided?

John
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  #15  
Old 1 Week Ago
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I always just added one quart, the service manual says for a drain and fill. This time I stood the bike against the wall (almost level) and to get the fluid to the bottom of the clutch spring I had to add about 4 ounces more oil after the quart.

I am running the same fluid so I will see if that makes a difference in 10,000 miles
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  #16  
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Shanneba, thanks again for these very useful data. It confirms once again that the GL-4 MT-90 manual trans lube is better suited
in a manual transmission than the GL-5 hypoid lubes for copper! This is particularly relevant in the four speeds that have a number
of copper bearings. Surprisingly, the GL-4 is better for iron content as well. I wonder if the extra calcium in the MT-90 is from calcium
sulfonate? Could that explain the reduced iron?

It rather serves to question why Redline tell folks to use their hypoid 75W90 GL5 in our manual trans, yet they 'never tested' their GL4 MT-90
'manual transmission' fluid; which evidently works better in a 'manual transmission' and is probably better for the clutch and alternator!

I agree that fluid level is important, so I look forward to those data. I use to just add by volume but after I started using the fill level screw
(it let out an ounce or so), there was less clutch drag and smoother shifting.
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  #17  
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Since the Primary is a Splash Lube, I don't think the extra 4 Ounces will make much difference. Maybe its like some of the FI Cleaner bottles I looked at. Some are filled more than others. Of the Same brand and product. Oil Expands when Hot. Maybe that's why HD only calls for 1 Qt?
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  #18  
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Quote:
Since the Primary is a Splash Lube, I don't think the extra 4 Ounces will make much difference
In fact, it could just result in oil churning and increased frictional losses:
https://www.machinerylubrication.com...icant-churning
https://etd.ohiolink.edu/!etd.send_f...osition=inline
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I just changed my Oils and Filter today. Had about 2k Miles. Was last done in June. Came out Dirty. Do a lot of short trips. This week looks like a No Ride week. Temps near Freezing most of the week. And Rain/Snow. Put 1 Qt in Primary. Added a little more. But just below the Opening. Changed my Derby cover to a matching Arlen Ness unit. Used another Bosch 3330. Earlier this week I changed to a Twin Power Lithium. Again had trouble starting (40F). Starting to wonder if my Schumacher SP6 is working correctly?
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  #20  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tucsonmax1 View Post
Since the Primary is a Splash Lube, I don't think the extra 4 Ounces will make much difference. Maybe its like some of the FI Cleaner bottles I looked at. Some are filled more than others. Of the Same brand and product. Oil Expands when Hot. Maybe that's why HD only calls for 1 Qt?
Rigid EVOs take 28 ounces. Confirm manual calls for 32 for 2018?
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