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View Poll Results: Who is wrong here?
Guy turning left 13 4.28%
Guy passing on the left 185 60.86%
Both! 106 34.87%
Voters: 304. You may not vote on this poll

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  #141  
Old 9th November 2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Folkie View Post
If you're turning, you don't have to yield to vehicles coming from behind you. Someone who hits a vehicle ahead from behind is always at fault, IMO.
Interesting view. About a year ago I was turning left, from a left turn lane. When the green arrow appeared I paused for a few seconds, to make sure that the cross traffic stopped, before pulling forward. During that time a cage passed me on my left, heading west in the eastbound lanes, and would have broadsided me if I had pulled out when the arrow appeared.

I understand your point about 'fault'. But there are people here learning to ride. And they need to understand that being 'right' can easily mean 'dead right'. Sometimes we have to 'yield' regardless of the law.
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  #142  
Old 9th November 2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjg883c View Post
I understand your point about 'fault'. But there are people here learning to ride. And they need to understand that being 'right' can easily mean 'dead right'. Sometimes we have to 'yield' regardless of the law.
Oh yes, I absolutely agree with that.

In terms of ‘right of way’, in the UK I don’t think that either someone turning right (left in the US), or someone overtaking, has ‘right of way’. Both are carrying out manoeuvers with an increased element of risk, and are responsible for checking that it is safe to carry out the manoeuver, and continuing to check that it remains so.

I believe that someone overtaking and hitting someone turning right would be considered more, if not completely, at fault.

Regardless of which, of course, in practice we should never assume that anyone, in any circumstances, is going to be as aware, or observant, or cautious, as they should be. Whether we think that we have 'right of way', or not.

When turning right you should be on the lookout for vehicles behind overtaking the line of traffic you are in (and oncoming vehicles overtaking traffic coming towards you, etc), and when overtaking you should be on the lookout for people turning (or also pulling out to overtake, etc).
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  #143  
Old 15th November 2018
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The original question for the poll is
Quote:
Who is at fault here?
So in staying with the topic, it is fault. Legally, the one turning left was at fault. Period, everything else is merely opinion on who should have done what. Clearly both of those involved should have stayed home, as I would suggest anyone that thinks the person turning left wasn't at fault.

Truly it was foolhardy for the person overtaking the extremely slow moving traffic, but even so, the fault for the collision lies solely on the person turning left.

Yes, when overtaking you are required to insure it is safe to do so, but it was safe until the person turned left.

Obviously, everyone needs to do what they can to avoid an accident no matter which is required to yield.

Another misconception is the so-called "I have the Right of Way" or "he had the Right of Way". It doesn't exist. At least here in the USA and for sure Florida and most states I have driven in, the law does not allow anyone the right-of-way. It only states who must yield. As in the video the left turning driver was supposed to yield to all other traffic, whether it be a passing vehicle or one overtaking from the rear.

Everyone that voted the guy passing was at fault should not be out on the streets and hiways.
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  #144  
Old 15th November 2018
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In the UK, Highway Code Rule 167 says that:
  • You must not overtake at or near a road junction on either side of the road.
    .
  • You must not overtake a road user who is indicating right*.
*: which could be signalling an intention to turn, or that they are intending to overtake.

Rule 180 says that before turning right you should check to make sure that you are not being overtaken.
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  #145  
Old 16th November 2018
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The original video has disappeared; here it is again:

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  #146  
Old 16th November 2018
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Default Video not found

Won't let me open the video from the link from op
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  #147  
Old 16th November 2018
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Which is why I reposted it above.
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  #148  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Folkie View Post
In the UK, Highway Code Rule 167 says that:
  • You must not overtake at or near a road junction on either side of the road.
    .
  • You must not overtake a road user who is indicating right*.
*: which could be signalling an intention to turn, or that they are intending to overtake.

Can't actually tell if that is an intersection or driveway, any where I have driven, intersections that require no passing are marked with no passing signs or the lines in the center of the road that would indicate no passing. Apparently from what I could gather, the road in the video is marked for passing. Not sure what the speed limit is or the speed of the overtaking motorcycle.

Most laws I could find also note that simple use of a turn indicator does not give you any right of way. The motorcycle overtaking was already in the passing lane before the driver turned.

Quote:
Rule 180 says that before turning right you should check to make sure that you are not being overtaken.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Folkie View Post
If you're turning, you don't have to yield to vehicles coming from behind you. Someone who hits a vehicle ahead from behind is always at fault, IMO.
You actually stated earlier that this was not required. That Rule 180 puts the FAULT on the driver turning as I have stated already and YOU just confirmed. Even in the UK and as you previously stated this supposedly occurred in Poland and we do not know the exact laws there.

It would be interesting to find out the legal results of that accident.

You already have the article from the similar accident here, yet you still think the vehicle turning is in the right.

I'll say it again, if you think the vehicle turning in that video was not at fault, you should not be out on the roads.
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  #149  
Old 16th November 2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Folkie View Post
Yes, that's an obvious exception, and it's not hard to think of one or two others. In general, though …
BINGO - took 3 years but you finally admitted what I was saying, and it contradicts your use of the term "always".

My point, things aren't always black and white, there are circumstances where the fault is shared or shifted.

Carry on.
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  #150  
Old 16th November 2018
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I think that they are both at fault; the rider turning for not signalling (as far as I can tell), and the passing rider for riding recklessly, too fast, passing with the side turning coming up, and not keeping an adequate look out for riders turning, pulling out to pass, or anyone in the side turning emerging and turning right into his path (and also not signalling).

I think the passing rider is much more at fault, and would be judged so in this country (UK).

In our own riding, we need to be aware when turning that people do pass recklessly, and keep a look out for them. When passing we need to be aware that people may turn, or themselves pull out to pass the traffic ahead (and may not indicate), or may emerge from a side turning.
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