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View Poll Results: The wreck is at hand, what will you do?
Lay the bike down? 57 22.01%
hold on and ride it out? 202 77.99%
Voters: 259. You may not vote on this poll

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  #131  
Old 9th November 2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kbetts View Post
You don't have time to think. It has to be muscle memory.
Kbetts,

Agreed. I consciously practiced countersteering until it became instinctive. That “muscle memory” has served me well many times.
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  #132  
Old 9th November 2018
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Originally Posted by jzink0883 View Post
Kbetts,

Agreed. I consciously practiced countersteering until it became instinctive.

Was that difficult? I used to not understand that people didn't countersteer instinctively until I saw a video in which someone entered a left hand sweeping curve and rode straight, didn't turn at all, and crashed. By 'instinctive' I mean after riding a bicycle when younger.

How long did it take before it was instinctive? Was it difficult to 'practice'.
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  #133  
Old 9th November 2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjg883c View Post
Was that difficult? I used to not understand that people didn't countersteer instinctively until I saw a video in which someone entered a left hand sweeping curve and rode straight, didn't turn at all, and crashed. By 'instinctive' I mean after riding a bicycle when younger.

How long did it take before it was instinctive? Was it difficult to 'practice'.
It is counter-intuitive according to most motorcycle instructors.
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  #134  
Old 9th November 2018
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This question is like asking is it better to wear a seat belt in a car.
There is probably a 1:100,000 ratio of when it is best to not be strapped in.
It is not something you should practice, but there are people who can cite an instance when it was better to not be strapped in.

Same with laying it down.
Even Evel Knievel once bailed and separated from his ride.
He survived.

Practice control.
Continue to brake, continue to ride, continue to steer and if it comes down to it be ready to ..........
Okay, am I still okay?
What just happened?
Is my bike okay?

I have never jumped out of my car.
Bet someone could cite a time when it would have been best. (Like going over a cliff)

Again, louder pipes might have made a difference.
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  #135  
Old 10th November 2018
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Is this the longest running thread on xlforum?
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  #136  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kbetts View Post
It is counter-intuitive according to most motorcycle instructors.
That is why I was curious about how, and the difficulty involved, in 'learning' to counter steer. I have always assumed it was a natural result from riding bicycles in our youth.
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  #137  
Old 10th November 2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjg883c View Post
That is why I was curious about how, and the difficulty involved, in 'learning' to counter steer. I have always assumed it was a natural result from riding bicycles in our youth.
It's really hard to convince some people. At low speed in a parking lot, I had to put one hand on my head and use an open palm against the left handlebar to turn left to prove to my engineer friend Rene' that countersteering is real. I asked him to explain how it was possible without countersteering. After about six times he was convinced.

I then came up with a terrible but strangely accurate analogy. A motorcycle front fork has many of the same properties as an outboard motor on a boat. The boat pivots on a moment of force in opposite to the force applied to the outboard.
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  #138  
Old 11th November 2018
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I voted ride it out. However I've experienced both and believe there can be times that one or the other will be the correct choice under particlar conditions.

I had decades of riding experience before switching to "street" bikes. I previously rode full on dirt racers and street legal trail bikes which introduced me to pitfalls of traffic.

Crashing in the dirt is generally more forgiving, especially if rocks trees, or cactus are not involved. It's a great place to learn crashing skills. I rode so hard and crashed so many times in my youth I could never have counted them. But muscle memory was burned into my brain to the point that my body reacts without conscious effort in emergency situations. In fact, tripping while running convinced me that I can ride a motorcycle better than I can walk. I say that because rather than just swinging the arms and legs, and maybe regaining balance if jostled in walking, riding requires articulating controls with both hands and feet, and reacting to changing conditions at extreme speeds.

The miracle of increased mental processing speed in emergencies which effectively slows time can also be a lifesaver. Once, off-road with my wife aboard a Honda XL250 as we charged across an unseen downed barbwire fence, it caught a footpeg.The bike was ripped out from under us. As we went airborne, in slo-mo I maneuvered my body in front of and below my wife. I impacted first and was a cushion for her. Landing flat there were no injuries to either of us since I had gloves to protect my hands on impact. When you remain conscious and in an accelerated state, the odds are definately in your favor for the best outcome possible.

Those same two factors worked to my advantage many times over the years. And while I've gone down and slid as in the previous crash, my most memorable ride it out wreck was with a left turning minivan. I was doing 45mph on a 4 lane highway when a woman turned left into my path with no room to stop. Again in slo-mo I modulated the brakes to maximum force, recovering from initial lockup instantly, swerved left planning to pass behind her. Then she stopped directly in front of me. I straightened and hit her broadside in the sliding door of the van. I'd probably slowed from 45 to maybe 20mph(like hitting it at a fast run). The forks crushed then the wheel folded sideways rotating me and the bike into the door. My 8 month old 100th anniversity Sportster was totaled. I was at lunch when this happened and I caught a ride with a friend back to work with no apparent injuries. The next day I had black and blue joints in my wrists shoulders and hips from the impact. X-rays said I was fine.

As an example of what can happen without the advantage of slo-mo and muscle memory, I wrecked in an off-road race once, riding a wheelie over a hill the trail made a right and I didn't, going directly into a boulder. It knocked me out busted my face and teeth and sent me directly to the emergency room.

My experience convinces me that automatic mental acceleration and muscle memory work wonders if there's time for them to kick in ... before you lose consciousness.

Oh, and if counter steering isn't ingrained to the point of muscle memory it needs to be. Ride more cautiously until it is.
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  #139  
Old 11th November 2018
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There's a get off point. There is always a get off point. For instance hill climbing.

You get a little sideways, that's part of the game, you power through, BUT, when it gets almost perpendicular to the hill you get off NOW or it's a drag race to the bottom. LOL, I put one in a tree like that. Then we had to shake the tree to get the bike to fall out.
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  #140  
Old 11th November 2018
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admittedly, off road is a different situation. We used to say, if the bike did not get away from you (Needing a recovery) you did not really ride that day, you just took a scenic tour around the park. The clay pits, the reservation, the sand dunes, the local wooded trails, the open fields, crossing ponds and creeks, stumps and thickets, you need to be able to change the dynamics with the throttle, the brakes, your body to and fro, forward and back, side to side, standing up, sitting down, lifting the front wheel. Yes, riding off-road offered a lot of challenges. A bike stops (Digs in) when you set it down, not like the slide and distance of asphalt or concrete. but, yes, there are times when it is in your best interest to separate from your Motorcycle. Setting it down too early is a mistake, it really is. Practice it if you must, but understand why you are making that decision and when it is going to be in your best interest. I have dismounted while in the air; both the bike and I eventually hit the sand (Which did not give nor did it allow either of us to slide).
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