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  #1  
Old 21st December 2020
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Default St. Andrew(s), save my tranny!

Good evening folks, and happy holidays!

I'm taking some time off to tear into Blackie's transmission and replace those three troublesome stock gears (CS 2&3, and MS 3) with the Andrews gears. Swapping them out was a breeze, and now the arduous task of shimming. Fortunately, I've found a local source (if you consider Tacoma local) for the shims, so I don't have to order, then wait, then install, then find out I need different sizes, then order, then wait, then install, rinse and repeat...

I have a few questions, as fortunately, it looks like the only gear that's out of tolerance is the Countershaft Low gear. The inner shim is already as big as is available as a Harley part (.100"), I need another 15-20 thou. Is it acceptable to put two shims in this location to get me to .120"? I would then have to get a slimmer shim for the outer Countershaft Low gear (currently at .070" - would go to .055 or .050").

Secondly I'm wondering about my clutch gear and my 2nd Gear Mainshaft (see pic).



The face that mates to the clutch gear seems worn, but there's nothing to wear that face except the face of the clutch gear, and that couldn't happen because the 2nd gear would be interlocked with the clutch gear.

It's almost like there's SUPPOSED to be a portion of the face on the 2nd Gear Mainshaft that's raised.



When I measure between that raised portion of the face and the dogs on the clutch gear, I'm between .032 and .058", but not if I measure the flatter portion of the face of the clutch gear. The clutch gear looks ok except for some wear on the dogs.



Thoughts on this clutch gear?

Finally, is it acceptable to have more than one mainshaft thrustwasher? The tranny had two in it (both .050") when I pulled it out, but I still get noticeable lateral movement when I check end clearance on the sprocket-end of the mainshaft, so I'm thinking of getting a couple larger ones to take up that slack and get back to tolerance.

Thanks in advance!
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Old 21st December 2020
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Perfectly normal (and required according to parts manual) to have two shims inside cs low. Not normal to have or need two shims for the main shaft thrust washer. Any gear dogs or mating pockets that are chipped and worn is just asking for trouble. If you have the means, replace them now.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago
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From your description it seems there is too much distance between both shafts and the cases.

Having to run two shims on both shafts is not "normal".

There is what Harley calls a "thrust washer" in the end of the clutch gear. No one ever touches them.
The clutch gear is located by the main bearing. As long as you have the correct door and the correct bearing the clutch gear should be in the correct position.
This also depends on the trap door seating fully against the case. And that the cases are mated correctly.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago
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I know it's expensive but I'd change out everything for new Andrews parts: gears and shafts. Then you don't have to worry about a weak link in the trans that could blow up later causing very expensive damage. Of course, it's not my money but I did this on my '78 and it shifts like butter and was very easy to shim to perfect.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericfreeman View Post
I know it's expensive but I'd change out everything for new Andrews parts: gears and shafts...I did this on my '78 and it shifts like butter and was very easy to shim to perfect.
+1

Ironhead cases are rare and expensive. I also went all-Andrews, and shimming was a cinch!
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Old 2 Weeks Ago
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Thanks for all the replies - Doodah, I did put a second left shim on the 1st gear (countershaft) to get the proper CS3 and CSLow gap in neutral. I'm still not able to get under about .020" CS endplay, but it was WAY worse than that before I started (like .050), so I'm going to call it a win - I'd need a .090 thrust washer, but they only go to .075. I doubt that using 2 TWs would be proper, so I'll live with it.

While I appreciate others' comments about going all-Andrews, I can't swing nearly a grand for such an upgrade - especially after already spending $250 on the three Andrews gears the board recommends be replaced anyway. I did replace the clutch gear and MS2nd per your recommendation Doodah (with OEM gears off flea-Bay).

Other than bad spacing on the CSLow gear, the other thing I discovered was that the Pawl Carrier Support tower wasn't perfectly perpendicular to the trapdoor and parallel to the shift fork shaft. I bought a new tower, but it had the same problem, so I carefully planed down the mounting boss on the trapdoor to remedy that. I also replaced the Shifter Finger Rollers with the older Shovelhead ones. I'm not sure why y'all recommend filing them down so they're the same height as the stock ones - they don't interfere with anything sticking up above the shifter cam like they do. Turns out the ones that were already in there were probably those SH ones anyway, as they were the same height measurements. But they were worn, so it was good to replace them.

I went through the blueprinting thread for the shifter, and checked everything. I put in new Pawl Carrier Springs, and Shifter Pawl Spring (though the existing ones were still serviceable). I also replaced the Pawl Carrier, since the old one looked worn.

Everything's shimmed and spacing is correct (other than the CS endplay as mentioned above). Took her out today for a shakedown ride - a bit sticky between 1st and 2nd (both directions), but I'm thinking the new tower and Pawl Carrier just need to get seated and worn in (though I used assembly lube when I put everything together). I also need to readjust the clutch one more time.

It shifts up and down through all 4 gears, and the 23 tooth drive sprocket sure makes riding at highway speeds more pleasant.

Thanks for the help, y'all - the 4-speed Sportie Transmission is no longer a magic box to me!

Last edited by shgrier; 2 Weeks Ago at 23:48..
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Old 2 Weeks Ago
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The stickey 2nd.gear shift is due to the taller finger rollers hitting the tower.
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I'm not completely understanding your term "sticky". Failing to shift sometimes ?

I wouldn't be happy with 20 thou end play on the C/S. FSM calls for 4 to 9.

That can be tricky to get exactly where you want, but too much will affect your gear spacing.

FSM calls for 38 to 58 which is a 20 thou range but if your plus 11 on the C/S already and your on the wide side with clearances you could well have a problem there.

Last edited by Ferrous Head; 2 Weeks Ago at 22:54.. Reason: Typo
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Ferrous head,I was refering to OP's post #6.Stickey 2nd
gear shifts.The big twin rollers are taller and going in and out of 2nd gear the roller hits the tower.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago
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Sticky as in the shift lever doesn't always come back to center - again, new tower and pawl carrier probably need to wear in. The new pawl carrier springs are much stronger than the old, worn-out ones, so the shifter should kick back into slot easier.

GH1944 - not sure how the additional .020" height of the roller could possibly interfere with the tower - the face of the tower is at least .250" away, and only on the MS2nd, since the CS3rd roller is out past the end of the tower. As I said in my post, the ones I pulled out were the same length as these I put in (one was actually longer by about .002").

FerrousHead - how can i suck up that additional ~.010" when I can't get a shim big enough? - I doubt doubling up on that CSLow thrustwasher would work - it's held in place by the machined recess in the outboard side of the gear itself; the end of the CS is thinner than the ID of the thrust washer at that point of the shaft. Then again, maybe a .025" (smallest size they make) on the inboard of the gear pocket and a .065" outboard of it - there might be enough pocket left to hold the .065 in place?
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