Ironhead 1969 XLCH Shifter Issues

[gibsonsmu]

Originally Posted by doodah man

Look up the thread on shifter blueprinting (dr dick) and have a read. The early style pawl has spring loaded plungers that are known to stick leaving you stuck in gear. The only real fix for it is to remove and clean the plungers - they easily catch debris. Or switch to theatrr style pawl carrier if you want.
http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1734747

Thank you - so it sounds like the transmission is coming out either way.

[Ferrous Head]

It's a vommon problem with the earlier type pawl carriers.

You can either shift all the way up to top gear or all the way doen to 1st gear. And that's where it stays.

They changed the pawl carrier in 72 ( 71 ?) anyway, the later pawl carrier is an upgrade and I always use them.

[sleighcrane]

Are you sure that you are turning the back wheel far enough to give it a chance to change gears.I know when my back wheel is elevated with plugs out I have to rotate the back wheel a fair bit to get it to shift to the next gear as I make my way to get into fourth

[brucstoudt]

Originally Posted by Ferrous Head

They changed the pawl carrier in 72 ( 71 ?)

'72 with a -72 p/n.correction the revised pawls have the -72 p/n. the revised pawl carrier has a -74 p/n.comes out in '72 with a -74b p/n wtf?

[gibsonsmu]

Originally Posted by sleighcrane

Are you sure that you are turning the back wheel far enough to give it a chance to change gears.I know when my back wheel is elevated with plugs out I have to rotate the back wheel a fair bit to get it to shift to the next gear as I make my way to get into fourth

I will try again - I can move the shift lever up and down but it is just not engaging anything. It hits the stops both ways but just won’t move into a different gear

[Ferrous Head]

Originally Posted by brucstoudt

'72 with a -72 p/n.correction the revised pawls have the -72 p/n. the revised pawl carrier has a -74 p/n.comes out in '72 with a -74b p/n wtf?

Probably they made a change to it in 74. I've had new ones in the box and pretty sure they had a 72 part number on them.

That's exactly the behavior you get with a stuck pawl. Will shift in one direction only. When it gets to the limit in that direction it will no longer shift in the other direction. So, stuck in first or stuck in 4th.
Everything feels "connected" but it will not shift in the direction you need it too.

The early pawls slide up and down inside a hole in the carrier casting. All it takes is a small amount of debris to get inside there and the pawl will stick in the "up" position. Normally the spring will force it back down to engage the cam plate gear but if it's stuck, it won't. The other pawl of course functions quite happily.

The change in 1872 eliminates those pawls completely. Two arms controlled by a spring and nowhere for them to get stuck.

[gibsonsmu]

Originally Posted by Ferrous Head

Probably they made a change to it in 74. I've had new ones in the box and pretty sure they had a 72 part number on them.

That's exactly the behavior you get with a stuck pawl. Will shift in one direction only. When it gets to the limit in that direction it will no longer shift in the other direction. So, stuck in first or stuck in 4th.
Everything feels "connected" but it will not shift in the direction you need it too.

The early pawls slide up and down inside a hole in the carrier casting. All it takes is a small amount of debris to get inside there and the pawl will stick in the "up" position. Normally the spring will force it back down to engage the cam plate gear but if it's stuck, it won't. The other pawl of course functions quite happily.

The change in 1872 eliminates those pawls completely. Two arms controlled by a spring and nowhere for them to get stuck.

This is what I’m dealing with - it’ll move up and down (and the shaft moves) as evidenced by the tape - but not engaging a gear. Does the cleaning of the plungers require removing entire transmission? I assume

https://youtu.be/3LKT-kGyIPg

[Ferrous Head]

Yup, you still have to pull the gearbox to fix the problem.

It's up to you but I would probably be looking for a 72 on replacement now. Because you might clean everything and put it back together and then it picks something else up at the worst possible time. 600 miles from home for example.

You might get lucky and never ever have the problem again.

I generally only use the 72 on version as a matter of course now.

I think I have a NOS "old Style" pawl assembly but I wouldn't put it into anything. I just think they're junk.

[gibsonsmu]

Originally Posted by Ferrous Head

Yup, you still have to pull the gearbox to fix the problem.

It's up to you but I would probably be looking for a 72 on replacement now. Because you might clean everything and put it back together and then it picks something else up at the worst possible time. 600 miles from home for example.

You might get lucky and never ever have the problem again.

I generally only use the 72 on version as a matter of course now.

I think I have a NOS "old Style" pawl assembly but I wouldn't put it into anything. I just think they're junk.

Gotcha - one last question / Hail Mary - this bike was shipped to me and it wet sumped- is it possible if I drained the crankcase it might be causing the problem? Pardon my ignorance here and thank you for your help

[Ferrous Head]

Sorry, nope.

There's no need to pull the sump in any case.

There is a level plug/bolt on the primary.

Leave the bike on it's side stand and pull that bolt out.

Oh bugger. Should have told you to put a pan underneath there to catch to oil first.

Ok, clean up that mess - not too much your probably going to make another one now.

Once you've drained all the oil you can out through that hole (I would judt leave it overnight) there will still be some oil in the sump.

The normal return system will clear this oil if you allow it to.

I have rollers so it's easy for me. You'll probably have to kick it. A lot. With the plugs out it's not so hard. Takes a lot of kicks but it can be done.

Oil will also probably puke out the oil breather tube. More mess on your floor. Sorry, I should have warned you.

You don't have to get it all out. Once it's at the point you can kick it and start it the engine will do the work for you. Again puking copious amounts out the breather, so a catch can/tank.

Do NOT add more oil to the tank until your sure all the oil in the system is returned to the tank.

Check your gearbox again and hey presto ! Still no gears. Sorry.

It's always possible that if you fiddle with it enough you might dislodge what ever has stuck it but I've never had any luck doing that.

Maybe turn the bike upside down and shake it ? Sorry, kidding of course.