The Sportster and Buell Motorcycle Forum - The XLFORUM®
 

Go Back   The Sportster and Buell Motorcycle Forum - The XLFORUM® > SPORTSTER MOTORCYCLE FORUM > Sportster Motorcycle Era Specific and Model Specific > Ironhead Sportster Motorcycle Talk (1957-1985)
XLF Blogs XLF Arcade XLF Disclaimer/Privacy Statement/Terms Of Use

Notices

Ironhead Sportster Motorcycle Talk (1957-1985) For all those that wanna talk about Ironhead Sportster Motorcycles

Active Threads
0 Hottie of the day, no nudity.
Last Post: ronccc
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 25,926
Views: 2,660,526
0 OEM Headlight Bucket?
Last Post: IXL2Relax
Posted On: 3 Hours Ago
Replies: 25
Views: 1,622
0 Year help on ironhead confused
Last Post: Iron Mike
Posted On: 3 Hours Ago
Replies: 18
Views: 446
0 Wedding Ring - Do you wear one?
Last Post: hammer6315
Posted On: 4 Hours Ago
Replies: 342
Views: 30,904
0 RIDE REPORT During Covid, 13 States & Some Spectacular Riding
Last Post: DK Custom
Posted On: 4 Hours Ago
Replies: 54
Views: 5,091
0 Removing Rear Shock
Last Post: slamtry
Posted On: 4 Hours Ago
Replies: 7
Views: 137
0 keihn setup at Altitude
Last Post: Tomcatt
Posted On: 4 Hours Ago
Replies: 98
Views: 4,110
0 Keep & Kill
Last Post: Crusty
Posted On: 5 Hours Ago
Replies: 19,492
Views: 1,164,022
0 Boardtracker Project
Last Post: ryder rick
Posted On: 6 Hours Ago
Replies: 626
Views: 129,268
0 History of Harley; One Man's Perspective
Last Post: Ultrarunner
Posted On: 6 Hours Ago
Replies: 3
Views: 224
0 New from Ohio
Last Post: sportsterpaul
Posted On: 6 Hours Ago
Replies: 11
Views: 126
0 Missippi Gulf Coast here.
Last Post: sportsterpaul
Posted On: 6 Hours Ago
Replies: 8
Views: 143
0 Identity crisis
Last Post: sportsterpaul
Posted On: 6 Hours Ago
Replies: 40
Views: 2,327
0 Pinion shaft roller bearing plug fit
Last Post: ryder rick
Posted On: 6 Hours Ago
Replies: 18
Views: 813
0 FXDL - Help me please, NADA confusion
Last Post: xraytoken
Posted On: 6 Hours Ago
Replies: 11
Views: 206
0 Fork Oil Measurement
Last Post: Cyclone14
Posted On: 6 Hours Ago
Replies: 2
Views: 70
0 Hot Chicks on Hot Bikes
Last Post: Desertfox
Posted On: 8 Hours Ago
Replies: 11,553
Views: 2,364,314
0 NRA files for bankrupcy
Last Post: kitabel
Posted On: 9 Hours Ago
Replies: 9
Views: 288
0 Who runs (or has run) a Barnett Scorpion Clutch?
Last Post: Scott
Posted On: 9 Hours Ago
Replies: 41
Views: 2,562
0 Newbie seeks smoother ride
Last Post: 45Brit
Posted On: 9 Hours Ago
Replies: 18
Views: 1,257
0 Carb Air Vent hole cracked
Last Post: rocketmangb
Posted On: 10 Hours Ago
Replies: 16
Views: 756
0 63 XLCH revival
Last Post: iNSaNeSHaNe
Posted On: 10 Hours Ago
Replies: 10
Views: 335
0 My Wife Says …
Last Post: DEEP DIVER
Posted On: 10 Hours Ago
Replies: 4
Views: 241
0 Handlebars
Last Post: Dr3wDrop
Posted On: 12 Hours Ago
Replies: 14
Views: 1,081
0 Please School Me On Carbonite Clutches
Last Post: Crusty
Posted On: 12 Hours Ago
Replies: 18
Views: 1,480
0 mississippi queen video
Last Post: Tim The Grim
Posted On: 13 Hours Ago
Replies: 12
Views: 708
0 motorcycle on lift for two+ years
Last Post: decman
Posted On: 14 Hours Ago
Replies: 4
Views: 213
0 From XL to FL - any experience?
Last Post: Akdawg
Posted On: 14 Hours Ago
Replies: 41
Views: 1,032
0 my sunday driver...
Last Post: 84rzv500r
Posted On: 17 Hours Ago
Replies: 91
Views: 11,885
0 Rebuild a 2 stroke in 9 minutes :)
Last Post: Crusty
Posted On: 17 Hours Ago
Replies: 1
Views: 174
More...
Members Birthdays
steve yorke (63), edman (55), Hudsonator (53), kozman32 (53), R3DN3X (51), gmcsid (50), mitch (45), Txngrg87 (34), Gotenfan (31)
Reply
 
Share Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 3 Weeks Ago
gibsonsmu gibsonsmu is offline
Biker
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 32
Sportster/Buell Model: XLCH
Sportster/Buell Year: 1969
Reputation: 10
gibsonsmu is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by doodah man View Post
Look up the thread on shifter blueprinting (dr dick) and have a read. The early style pawl has spring loaded plungers that are known to stick leaving you stuck in gear. The only real fix for it is to remove and clean the plungers - they easily catch debris. Or switch to theatrr style pawl carrier if you want.
http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1734747
Thank you - so it sounds like the transmission is coming out either way.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 3 Weeks Ago
Ferrous Head's Avatar
Ferrous Head Ferrous Head is offline
Blind Owl
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Sunshine Coast
Posts: 6,295
Sportster/Buell Model: XLB, XLCH, Sporton
Sportster/Buell Year: 1962
Sportster/Buell Model #2: XLCH
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1966
Other Motorcycle Model: XLCH (Another one)
Other Motorcycle Year: 1966
Reputation: 1662579
Ferrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond repute
Default

It's a vommon problem with the earlier type pawl carriers.

You can either shift all the way up to top gear or all the way doen to 1st gear. And that's where it stays.

They changed the pawl carrier in 72 ( 71 ?) anyway, the later pawl carrier is an upgrade and I always use them.
__________________
"I know only too well the evil that I propose. But my inclinations get the better of me."
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 3 Weeks Ago
sleighcrane's Avatar
sleighcrane sleighcrane is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 245
Sportster/Buell Model: XLH
Sportster/Buell Year: 1967
Other Motorcycle Model: FLHR
Other Motorcycle Year: 2019
Reputation: 25644
sleighcrane is a name known to allsleighcrane is a name known to allsleighcrane is a name known to allsleighcrane is a name known to allsleighcrane is a name known to allsleighcrane is a name known to allsleighcrane is a name known to allsleighcrane is a name known to allsleighcrane is a name known to allsleighcrane is a name known to allsleighcrane is a name known to all
Default

Are you sure that you are turning the back wheel far enough to give it a chance to change gears.I know when my back wheel is elevated with plugs out I have to rotate the back wheel a fair bit to get it to shift to the next gear as I make my way to get into fourth
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 3 Weeks Ago
brucstoudt's Avatar
brucstoudt brucstoudt is offline
Senior Master Custom Bike Builder
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Pottstown PA.
Posts: 14,267
Sportster/Buell Model: xlch
Sportster/Buell Year: 1960
Reputation: 804487
brucstoudt has a reputation beyond reputebrucstoudt has a reputation beyond reputebrucstoudt has a reputation beyond reputebrucstoudt has a reputation beyond reputebrucstoudt has a reputation beyond reputebrucstoudt has a reputation beyond reputebrucstoudt has a reputation beyond reputebrucstoudt has a reputation beyond reputebrucstoudt has a reputation beyond reputebrucstoudt has a reputation beyond reputebrucstoudt has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferrous Head View Post

They changed the pawl carrier in 72 ( 71 ?)
'72 with a -72 p/n.correction the revised pawls have the -72 p/n. the revised pawl carrier has a -74 p/n.comes out in '72 with a -74b p/n wtf?
__________________
72 1000cc barrels and heads, s&s 41/2'' flywheels, sifton cams, s&s super B w/ zippers thunderjet w/yost powertube, andrews gears,and shafts, competition engineering kevlar wet or dry clutch, 72 oil pump, morris magneto w/auto advance and single fire module, cycle electric generator w/electronic regulator,73 cu.in.

Last edited by brucstoudt; 3 Weeks Ago at 23:22.. Reason: wtf?
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 3 Weeks Ago
gibsonsmu gibsonsmu is offline
Biker
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 32
Sportster/Buell Model: XLCH
Sportster/Buell Year: 1969
Reputation: 10
gibsonsmu is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sleighcrane View Post
Are you sure that you are turning the back wheel far enough to give it a chance to change gears.I know when my back wheel is elevated with plugs out I have to rotate the back wheel a fair bit to get it to shift to the next gear as I make my way to get into fourth
I will try again - I can move the shift lever up and down but it is just not engaging anything. It hits the stops both ways but just won’t move into a different gear
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 3 Weeks Ago
Ferrous Head's Avatar
Ferrous Head Ferrous Head is offline
Blind Owl
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Sunshine Coast
Posts: 6,295
Sportster/Buell Model: XLB, XLCH, Sporton
Sportster/Buell Year: 1962
Sportster/Buell Model #2: XLCH
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1966
Other Motorcycle Model: XLCH (Another one)
Other Motorcycle Year: 1966
Reputation: 1662579
Ferrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brucstoudt View Post
'72 with a -72 p/n.correction the revised pawls have the -72 p/n. the revised pawl carrier has a -74 p/n.comes out in '72 with a -74b p/n wtf?
Probably they made a change to it in 74. I've had new ones in the box and pretty sure they had a 72 part number on them.

That's exactly the behavior you get with a stuck pawl. Will shift in one direction only. When it gets to the limit in that direction it will no longer shift in the other direction. So, stuck in first or stuck in 4th.
Everything feels "connected" but it will not shift in the direction you need it too.

The early pawls slide up and down inside a hole in the carrier casting. All it takes is a small amount of debris to get inside there and the pawl will stick in the "up" position. Normally the spring will force it back down to engage the cam plate gear but if it's stuck, it won't. The other pawl of course functions quite happily.

The change in 1872 eliminates those pawls completely. Two arms controlled by a spring and nowhere for them to get stuck.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 3 Weeks Ago
gibsonsmu gibsonsmu is offline
Biker
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 32
Sportster/Buell Model: XLCH
Sportster/Buell Year: 1969
Reputation: 10
gibsonsmu is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferrous Head View Post
Probably they made a change to it in 74. I've had new ones in the box and pretty sure they had a 72 part number on them.

That's exactly the behavior you get with a stuck pawl. Will shift in one direction only. When it gets to the limit in that direction it will no longer shift in the other direction. So, stuck in first or stuck in 4th.
Everything feels "connected" but it will not shift in the direction you need it too.

The early pawls slide up and down inside a hole in the carrier casting. All it takes is a small amount of debris to get inside there and the pawl will stick in the "up" position. Normally the spring will force it back down to engage the cam plate gear but if it's stuck, it won't. The other pawl of course functions quite happily.

The change in 1872 eliminates those pawls completely. Two arms controlled by a spring and nowhere for them to get stuck.
This is what I’m dealing with - it’ll move up and down (and the shaft moves) as evidenced by the tape - but not engaging a gear. Does the cleaning of the plungers require removing entire transmission? I assume

https://youtu.be/3LKT-kGyIPg
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 3 Weeks Ago
Ferrous Head's Avatar
Ferrous Head Ferrous Head is offline
Blind Owl
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Sunshine Coast
Posts: 6,295
Sportster/Buell Model: XLB, XLCH, Sporton
Sportster/Buell Year: 1962
Sportster/Buell Model #2: XLCH
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1966
Other Motorcycle Model: XLCH (Another one)
Other Motorcycle Year: 1966
Reputation: 1662579
Ferrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Yup, you still have to pull the gearbox to fix the problem.

It's up to you but I would probably be looking for a 72 on replacement now. Because you might clean everything and put it back together and then it picks something else up at the worst possible time. 600 miles from home for example.

You might get lucky and never ever have the problem again.

I generally only use the 72 on version as a matter of course now.

I think I have a NOS "old Style" pawl assembly but I wouldn't put it into anything. I just think they're junk.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 3 Weeks Ago
gibsonsmu gibsonsmu is offline
Biker
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 32
Sportster/Buell Model: XLCH
Sportster/Buell Year: 1969
Reputation: 10
gibsonsmu is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferrous Head View Post
Yup, you still have to pull the gearbox to fix the problem.

It's up to you but I would probably be looking for a 72 on replacement now. Because you might clean everything and put it back together and then it picks something else up at the worst possible time. 600 miles from home for example.

You might get lucky and never ever have the problem again.

I generally only use the 72 on version as a matter of course now.

I think I have a NOS "old Style" pawl assembly but I wouldn't put it into anything. I just think they're junk.
Gotcha - one last question / Hail Mary - this bike was shipped to me and it wet sumped- is it possible if I drained the crankcase it might be causing the problem? Pardon my ignorance here and thank you for your help
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 3 Weeks Ago
Ferrous Head's Avatar
Ferrous Head Ferrous Head is offline
Blind Owl
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Sunshine Coast
Posts: 6,295
Sportster/Buell Model: XLB, XLCH, Sporton
Sportster/Buell Year: 1962
Sportster/Buell Model #2: XLCH
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1966
Other Motorcycle Model: XLCH (Another one)
Other Motorcycle Year: 1966
Reputation: 1662579
Ferrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond reputeFerrous Head has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Sorry, nope.

There's no need to pull the sump in any case.

There is a level plug/bolt on the primary.

Leave the bike on it's side stand and pull that bolt out.

Oh bugger. Should have told you to put a pan underneath there to catch to oil first.

Ok, clean up that mess - not too much your probably going to make another one now.

Once you've drained all the oil you can out through that hole (I would judt leave it overnight) there will still be some oil in the sump.

The normal return system will clear this oil if you allow it to.

I have rollers so it's easy for me. You'll probably have to kick it. A lot. With the plugs out it's not so hard. Takes a lot of kicks but it can be done.

Oil will also probably puke out the oil breather tube. More mess on your floor. Sorry, I should have warned you.

You don't have to get it all out. Once it's at the point you can kick it and start it the engine will do the work for you. Again puking copious amounts out the breather, so a catch can/tank.

Do NOT add more oil to the tank until your sure all the oil in the system is returned to the tank.

Check your gearbox again and hey presto ! Still no gears. Sorry.

It's always possible that if you fiddle with it enough you might dislodge what ever has stuck it but I've never had any luck doing that.

Maybe turn the bike upside down and shake it ? Sorry, kidding of course.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:00.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
XL Forum® - Linson Media LLC