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camshafts, ignition, ironhead, sportster 1000, timing

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  #1  
Old 5th February 2019
Brycycle Brycycle is offline
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Default Ignition troubles

I need some help. I just got this motor back from a good shop. They rebuilt the flywheel and installed all new bearings. I put the pistons, jugs and heads on. I also rebuilt the transmission. I've attached several pictures and ill explain my problem as best I can, and with the proper vocabulary. This is my first motor rebuild but not my first ironhead. I've also read about every thread on this forum and haven't seen anyone else fight this particular gremlin.

I ignored the flywheel markings and set my cams. The mark on pinion shaft is lined up with the pinion gear, and confirmed twice during the cam install. I left out the shims I had carefully measured before during these troubleshooting trials. https://photos.app.goo.gl/WANzF7tEuaaPq7Uo7 , https://photos.app.goo.gl/Ax5WmSFm5Yzbj5qm6
Once cams are installed, along with the generator idler gear, i tightened everything down and installed the points assembly. The weights are installed correctly with the pin mating to the slot on #2 rear intake cam and the pin in the weight assembly mating to the flat side of the ignition points cam. On both the wide lobe (rear cyl fire) and the narrow (front cyl fire) lobe the points gap is measured with a feeler gauge to be .018" with a light drag on the feeler. Then I turn the points plate to the full retarded (counter clockwise). With the condenser removed for easy access I can manually advance the the weights behind the points plate.
I can observe the points cams operation, and see that as the narrow lobe of the ignition points cam approaches the heel of the points arm while the front cylinder is rising on a compression stroke. When I reach the 40* advance mark it is time to static set the ignition points timing by rotating the weights to their high RMP operating position by turning them counter clockwise with thumb and finger. At this point I should be able to turn the ignition cam plate clockwise and find the point where the points just break. This is impossible. https://photos.app.goo.gl/SZehrXEKuafo14tWA The cam plate cannot rotate any further, and at full advance the points still do not open. So the bike runs retarded, and stumbles over 2000 or so rpm.

What should I do now? Also thank you for taking the time to read this, I really hope I'm missing something obvious


I have lots more photos if anyone thinks it'll help.
[IMG][/IMG]
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  #2  
Old 6th February 2019
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Have you had a look at the sticky threads:
http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=465866

I seem to remember some other threads about not being able to rotate far enough - but can't quite remember the solution (or find those threads)...

So - Here's a bump up to the top for an IH guru to respond...

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  #3  
Old 6th February 2019
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no pics
there was just another thread on here with the same issue, haven't been back to see if the issue was resolved or not. i tend to jump around in and between forums. i believe the thread was a conversion to points and some issues were resolved relating to the pinion install. and i do believe it to be a 79'er also.

http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2072181
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Old 6th February 2019
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After breaking 3 new bendix drives after removing my cover for chrome and not checking the marks . Come to find out the pinion shaft is off by 1 tooth.Matching them up like the manual says left me fully advanced and blowing bendix drives.
Used a degree wheel and dial indicator to do the cams to find this.
Once the lines get matched, i pull #2 and turn the crank 1 tooth and reinstall #2.
been working like that for 40 years, go figure.


Holy xxxx! I knew it!
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Old 6th February 2019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brycycle View Post
Holy xxxx! I knew it!
Does that mean you got your bike figured out??
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  #6  
Old 6th February 2019
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You're doing an electronic to points conversion. Are the parts you are using aftermarket? Some times they are made differently.

Also the points can have an effect on the point plate position. If the rubbing block is longer or shorter it will change the setting. Or the distance from the pivot to the rubbing block. The point gap has a small effect on it too but you have yours set right.

See this thread. Especially post #4 and 11

http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1607258


I'll probably be criticized for this but if you're sure the cam timing is correct I see nothing wrong with elongating the slots if needed. If you end up with proper cam and igniton timing what's wrong with doing that?
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Old 6th February 2019
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This is the cam set as the manual says to install. Like this I cant get the points to work right.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/UKJpRyoc5gsZFpXb7
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  #8  
Old 6th February 2019
Brycycle Brycycle is offline
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So then I tried the method that assumes the pinion shaft is mismarked...

https://photos.app.goo.gl/pHM78coEagHYpoQM9

The points setting is 'normal' in this position, and can be successfully static timed using the manual procedure. Also described at length in these forums.
The bike runs just as poorly in either cam position and thru a wide range of points setting attempts. Also in this position the the valved do not touch the pistons. Each compression stroke is on closed valves.
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Old 6th February 2019
Brycycle Brycycle is offline
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Here is the whole bike.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/1dPzaw5heDB7Sh4n9

Now, the only work done on this bike was a rebuilt flywheel. The marks are consistent with a 1980 Sportster (https://photos.app.goo.gl/jJAp6NNH5ufjA9vD7). And using all the same ignition hardware as when it was running. Befor this bike was apart I was able to static time and even induction light time everything using the slash 40* advance mark (https://photos.app.goo.gl/7wdHNdnsfxVHkEW67) and it ran strong.

The bike runs retarded, and no pun intended, at advancing RPM the engine make a rapid du-du-du-du-du-du-du, rather than a smooth vroom.


I haven't figured out how to embed images, so youll need a second browser window I guess.
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  #10  
Old 6th February 2019
Brycycle Brycycle is offline
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Not yet, last night I though I had found salvation, but this morning I tried the "false pinion shaft theory" and get the same results.
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