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  #781  
Old 28th October 2019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomcatt View Post
Is this supposed to "prove" something?
No I'm not trying to prove anything.
I'm just playing around with my new tool.
bustert's testing interested me enough that I wanted to try it myself.
I'm just trying to see what I can learn and I realize it's just one of many tools.
You normally have more vacuum than positive pressure.

As I mentioned earlier,
Even though there is a positive 'push' on internal pressure through piston downstroke, the overall internal pressure is still negative.
It's just less negative than it was before the downstroke. This creates a pulsing effect on oil in the sump which helps shift the oil toward the scavenge port.
Even though there is normal blowby throughout the RPM range, the vacuum created buffers that.


But it's the positive push that creates the pulsing air (constant differential) that helps move oil and air around in the crankcase.

It's OK to have vacuum as long as it's not too high.
The higher the vacuum, the less differential that takes place inside therefore the less pulsing pressure to move things around.

I had to build this homemade rig since I don't have money for a used Dwyer not to mention a pressure sensor and data logging capabilities.
But I think I can learn something from it.
So it's a win-win for me.

Vacuum deters high oil suspension. In other words the air/oil mix that gets pushed around will be less dense.
If the pulsating air is great enough on downstroke (even though the mean pressure is still negative) , the oil in the sump is kept in the rear to be scavenged.
But vacuum can also lower the pulsations if it creeps too high.

So my degree of vacuum wasn't high enough to hinder scavenging.
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  #782  
Old 28th October 2019
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Thanks for reminding me to say nothing and just pop more popcorn
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  #783  
Old 28th October 2019
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I saw that the green from bustert's pics shows up best so that's what I got.
It's difficult to get the water level exactly on a line so here is where I started.


1000 RPM:


I lost 3-3/4" of water by taking the oil cap off at idle (1000 RPM).
Since it went and died and idled below 1000 when I fired it back up, I held the throttle at 1000 to get this reading.


2000 RPM:


3000 RPM:


4000 RPM:


5000 RPM:


I have something happening at 5500 sitting still as the pipes sound like they are spitting around then or maybe breaking up some.
I was running between 5000 and 6500 earlier with a load and no problems.
So this may be some of the differences you mentioned regarding load vs no load, Tomcatt?

Last edited by Hippysmack; 18th December 2019 at 00:24.. Reason: moved pics to Sportsterpedia, Deleted non productive rantings...
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  #784  
Old 29th October 2019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hippysmack View Post
I was running between 5000 and 6500 earlier with a load and no problems.
So this may be some of the differences you mentioned regarding load vs no load, Tomcatt?
Cold vs hot engine? Your tuning, at small throttle opening, low MAP, high revs, likes a cold engine better? It's an odd area to be running in. Are you running an ignition that lets you run ignition timing vs MAP and RPM? It may need a little tweaking.

Did I misread or misunderstand? "I was running between 5000 and 6500 earlier with a load and no problems." I was thinking this session was with a hot engine (and food coloring) vs the previous cold engine test? You were running under load with your manometer connected?

Last edited by Tomcatt; 29th October 2019 at 00:36..
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  #785  
Old 29th October 2019
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No, stock S model ignition, not tweakable.
I got higher vacuum with the engine up to temp (oil temp 200F).
I would believe that to be better ring seal.
We all know the engine runs better when hot. So that's my theory.
I believe I'm closer at least to bustert's testing anyway.
I was concerned that my initial testing had lower vacuum than his.
In my last testing, there wasn't as much change between 3000-4000.

I'm sure all this means something and I am not done testing variables.
But I did go back out to verify a couple readings before I posted the pics.
With engine temp about 160F, the vacuum was slightly lower.
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  #786  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomcatt View Post
I was thinking this session was with a hot engine (and food coloring) vs the previous cold engine test? You were running under load with your manometer connected?
I may not have fully stated it properly.

The first test was on a cold startup. Just testing the waters with coffee.
The second was at operating temp, technically the way it should be and with food coloring.
But now I have a visual of the difference.
Both tests were done in my shop.

I was riding earlier today particularly in the 5000-6500 range to heat up the engine for testing.
I'd like to find a way to get the rig on the road but at the same time I don't want a 2x4 getting loose on the road.

Of course the thing that's gnawing at me the most is the oil cap thing.
I need to build another rig so I can test the cam chest and the oil tank at the same time.

And I need to check my tuning to see what's going on at 5500.
Main jet?
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  #787  
Old 29th October 2019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hippysmack View Post
And I need to check my tuning to see what's going on at 5500. Main jet?
If you're talking about no load high revs, pilot jet. Try turning the mixture screw 1/2 turn at a time and see if that makes a noticeable difference. Just a way of diagnosing, a direction to go, not a fix.
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  #788  
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Also on my list is to check the mixture, timing and anything else I can with the slack tube hooked up.
I will also make bushings with holes in them to screw into my stock breather bolts to try and simulate the smaller holed breather bolts.
Just seeing what I can see before I swap to external breathing.
I don't want to change too much at one time.
But I'll go back into my carb and check things out.

She runs like a bat out of Hell on the road.
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  #789  
Old 30th October 2019
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you have 50 more cc
you have tighter reign on timing with double blip cup

i run ultima
timing full on at 2.8k rpm (or so) and adv max @ 28* (could come down some more)

i run retarded cam timing
i run the sportgear
i run the int'l ratio final drive
so not apples to apples.
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  #790  
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Yep.
And the bigger pistons, I would assume to yield slightly higher vacuum.
But I've also got the Buell crank with the cupped wheels.
And yours is slightly higher than mine.
Maybe I will change the umbrellas first.
Hard rain today and a power outage but I'll get back on it.

Right, I figured it wouldn't be apples to apples but I wouldn't figure there would be a huge difference.
They should act in kind to a point of the variances.
I'm just getting my feet yet though.

I've done some research on slack tubes and there doesn't seem to be a set ID requirement of the tubing.
It's apparently not a big issue?
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