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  #171  
Old 3rd September 2021
Jfart Jfart is offline
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Originally Posted by IXL2Relax View Post
For IMS setting, the idea is to get the lowest idle speed where the engine still runs in order find the center point of the two falter points. Just keep reducing the idle speed (minimal amount) as you find that center point.

IF the bike will idle with the IMS fully closed, you might consider using a 42 Slow Jet (or a 44) to reduce the overall fuel being supplied. IF you do that, you will find that the center point of your tuning has now moved to more turns out on the IMS because you are feeding less fuel thru the jet. Actually, you will be having a very similar Idle AFR (by the more turns), but the Transfer Port operation will be positively affected.

It's never a bad idea to check for intake leaks around the seal.

The Throttle Plate is never intended to physically prevent the Transfer Ports from flowing fuel, but rather it minimizes the vacuum over them by keeping them on the outer side of the plate (functionally). They may appear physically available, but functionally, when the plate is barely open, even if over them, they are functionally minimized or eliminated.

This is a balancing act. But the goal is to have the Idle Port fully active at idle with the Transfer Ports minimized as much as possible so they CAN become active when you crack the throttle. If they are already active when at idle, that won't happen and the engine will falter when you crack the throttle. This proper functioning of the Transfer Ports (during a transfer from off idle to needing the needle fuel) is the point of the IMS tuning.

After finding the center of the falters at the lowest rpm, you reopen the throttle plate to have a 950-1050 idle rpm. That centered IMS setting will then allow the best transfer function when opening the throttle for more power off idle.

Think in terms of the best possible tune, rather than some perfect micro-setting that must be achieved. There's some point in the tune (after doing your best) that is GOOD-ENOUGH...


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Sorry, forgot to update. I ordered a 44 and a 42 jet. CVP took a while last time. I’ll assume it will be a week or two
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  #172  
Old 3rd September 2021
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IXL2Relax View Post
For IMS setting, the idea is to get the lowest idle speed where the engine still runs in order find the center point of the two falter points. Just keep reducing the idle speed (minimal amount) as you find that center point.

IF the bike will idle with the IMS fully closed, you might consider using a 42 Slow Jet (or a 44) to reduce the overall fuel being supplied. IF you do that, you will find that the center point of your tuning has now moved to more turns out on the IMS because you are feeding less fuel thru the jet. Actually, you will be having a very similar Idle AFR (by the more turns), but the Transfer Port operation will be positively affected.

It's never a bad idea to check for intake leaks around the seal.

The Throttle Plate is never intended to physically prevent the Transfer Ports from flowing fuel, but rather it minimizes the vacuum over them by keeping them on the outer side of the plate (functionally). They may appear physically available, but functionally, when the plate is barely open, even if over them, they are functionally minimized or eliminated.

This is a balancing act. But the goal is to have the Idle Port fully active at idle with the Transfer Ports minimized as much as possible so they CAN become active when you crack the throttle. If they are already active when at idle, that won't happen and the engine will falter when you crack the throttle. This proper functioning of the Transfer Ports (during a transfer from off idle to needing the needle fuel) is the point of the IMS tuning.

After finding the center of the falters at the lowest rpm, you reopen the throttle plate to have a 950-1050 idle rpm. That centered IMS setting will then allow the best transfer function when opening the throttle for more power off idle.

Think in terms of the best possible tune, rather than some perfect micro-setting that must be achieved. There's some point in the tune (after doing your best) that is GOOD-ENOUGH...


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NO, if the bike is still running with the IMS completely closed then the throttle plate is open too far and drawing fuel from the transfer ports. Going smaller on the pilot jet is not an answer. Closed is closed regardless what size jet is in there. If you follow this advice you will be chasing your own ass.

Leave the 45 in there and close that throttle plate down to where you are adjusting idle without interference from the transfer ports.
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  #173  
Old 3rd September 2021
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You should also look at the idle port itself and observe if the screw has been tightened to the point that the area around it is cracked. If that has happened, the carb body will never work right. Always seat it gently.
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  #174  
Old 4th September 2021
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NO, if the bike is still running with the IMS completely closed then the throttle plate is open too far and drawing fuel from the transfer ports. Going smaller on the pilot jet is not an answer. Closed is closed regardless what size jet is in there. If you follow this advice you will be chasing your own ass.

Leave the 45 in there and close that throttle plate down to where you are adjusting idle without interference from the transfer ports.
I have checked for intake and exhaust leak with no leak resulting (thank god) I was sick of resetting the intake manifold.

This is how I have it set up now. 45 and a 185. Closed butterfly. Idle down method. Please correct me if I’m wrong. But when I do the idle down I start at 2.5 turns out. Idle up until it falters. Then I turn it down until it falters. Did this a few times until it patterns and set in the middle of my count.

When I’m turning to lean out the IMS the phases seem different than the past before the heads. Going off my crap memory of days ago. This is why I notice.

Turns out

3.5 faltering
3 runs good but just starting to falter after this
2.5 runs good
2 runs good
1.5 runs good
1 runs good but starts to speed up idle but bike likes it
.5 still faster idle bike likes it
.25 - 0 fast idle, bike runs doesn’t seem to like it as much but almost the same as half turn.

I have it set at 2.125 ish turns out.

The fast running at low rpm’s what confuses me and is why I thought the 44 would be good. I ordered the 42 because it’s cheap, it takes forever to get something from CVP and I don’t have patience haha.

The bike won’t run at a slow idle/butterfly closed without the my hand throttle cracked the least amount possible.

Opinions? Should 2 turns out be a good area? Or is the fast idle mean I need to be lean out the IMS to 1 turn out or go to the 44? The needle is the velocity with no washers. Everything is CVP now.

I don’t think this is the issue but how do I check the vacuum line isn’t leaking gas? Carb seems to work appropriately. I’m just running rich. Have two sets of new plugs to try but want to make sure I’m in the right place before I use them. Already went through two pairs of plugs. They work fine but are dark and can’t read them well now.
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  #175  
Old 4th September 2021
Jfart Jfart is offline
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Originally Posted by wedge View Post
You should also look at the idle port itself and observe if the screw has been tightened to the point that the area around it is cracked. If that has happened, the carb body will never work right. Always seat it gently.
Good call. I’ve read you mention this on other threads and checked the other day. No crack. It threes in good. I can see the tip of the IMS when looking in carb with it in all the way but not much of it can be seen.

Also, I have to give you props on how much carb advice you’ve given people on here. I admire how you back up your statements with not only fact but I education. Thank you. This really is a great community.

Last edited by Jfart; 4th September 2021 at 18:05.. Reason: Props
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  #176  
Old 4th September 2021
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wedge wedge is offline
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That's some good info there. Usually it slows in both directions.

Typically it falls off around the 3 to 3.5 turns out range on the CV40, the highest idle speed is the middle range, then it drops back off from too little fuel. Since it is rising at the lower end and continues to rise, this is telling me that it it getting fuel from somewhere else and it should not be getting any more than a slight bit from the transfer ports with the throttle plate down as low as it is supposed to be when doing this test (you do open it to set idle speed after finding the sweet spot as we discussed before). That pilot just barely is noticeable in the idle setting, it accounts for about 1/2 to 1 turn and at near sea level on mine it showed as just over 3 turns out for the correct setting with 42 (mid range plus about 1/4 turn), and it is 2.5 turns out with the 45. That is just over 1/2 turn difference caused by the slight draw from the transfer ports. This is why I said that the jets (within reason, meaning reasonably close to the stock size) don't affect your ability to make it idle perfectly the same for any pilot. We already know from experience in this forum that people run anywhere from the 42 to the 45 all over the world, and they are able to achieve good idle. I like the 45 idle wise, because at 2.5 turns there is more tension on the lock spring that keeps it from backing out from vibration. But the stock 42 ran great at idle with the screw out over 3 turns. The real difference is how it feels as you accelerate away from a stop. There are no restrictions on the transfer ports except their drill size and maximum jet flow. The 42 is most likely the smallest jet that will run good enough to be drivable, because; HD has the bikes set up super lean from the factory for EPA. Even at sea level with higher air pressure, the 42 likes about 3 turns to run nice but the factory is around 2 turns if I remember, so pulling the plug and adjusting is the first step to better for about everyone. If you live at 8000 feet, the 42 probably sucks at idle and the transfer probably knocks you on your face but beyond that the CV carb corrects for a lot of that and it will run nice up in the canyons past the beginning of the transfer area.

1) I just looked at your profile and I don't see anything. What is your altitude?

2) Do you have the stock vacuum petcock? They have been known to leak past the diaphragm and down the vac line into the carb and make the carb run rich.

3) Did you already say how you have checked for air leaks at the manifold behind the carb and at the manifold to heads connections? I find that passing an unlit propane torch (valve open so you can hear propane) around that area and holding it right next to the seals and move it around the ports works better than most fluids sprayed there, with the exception of starting fluid, so you could try that too. Sometimes the leaks show up as idle rising, sometimes idle slowing. Any change should make you look at it closer.

Oh, almost forgot. Is the vac port on top of the carb in use operating the petcock, or if you went to a Pingle type petcock, is that vac port capped off, and is the cap in good shape (they turn to crap around here in a few months so mine is plugged permanently). Also, there could be a second vac port located on the left side of the carb as you face the bike just above the float bowl. It will have a plastic elbow. You may not have that one, because it is for attaching to the smog cannister used in California and possibly elsewhere? Those have to be plugged solidly or attached where they belong with lines that don't leak air.

I will look back in later.
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  #177  
Old 4th September 2021
Jfart Jfart is offline
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NO, if the bike is still running with the IMS completely closed then the throttle plate is open too far and drawing fuel from the transfer ports. Going smaller on the pilot jet is not an answer. Closed is closed regardless what size jet is in there. If you follow this advice you will be chasing your own ass.

Leave the 45 in there and close that throttle plate down to where you are adjusting idle without interference from the transfer ports.
Damn, I think you hit it on the head. My butterfly was open so little it wasn’t visible. I idled down, and when the idle speed picked up I was able to adjust the hand throttle lower and lower. I couldn’t see the throttle moving at all but it clearly was enough to close the butterfly valve to the point where it would stall by closing the IMS. I’m shocked how how micro that adjustment was. I could of had my accelerator cable barley too tight originally too, not allowing the butterfly to close completely.

As hippysmack says. This girl is HUNGRY.

I’ll hopefully get a good ride in today and let you know results. Try to take a video
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  #178  
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Jfart Jfart is offline
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I got a good tune in with the butterfly closed today. IMS 1.25 turns out and that’s 1/8 turn richer than my median count. Top end is loud. Can’t find an exhaust leak or intake leak still.

What do you guys think of the sound? Tried to get my the mic close to heads and rocker box.

I think I hear a slight rear tick on the rear rocker cover above the intake rocker valve side. Might check that one more time. Then try to really get into the tuning if everything checks out.

https://youtu.be/Rpa8BGvxojU

https://youtu.be/AoX3wiX67t0
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  #179  
Old 6th September 2021
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I think it sounds pretty good. That ticking is most likely nothing to be concerned with. Mine have sounded like that for a lot of miles.

So now to fine tune. Take it for a ride (warmed up) with your idle screwdriver and if it has any hesitation just off idle, then open that screw up 1/4 turn and ride again. After that has no hesitation, then with the bike on the side stand, grab the throttle with a couple of fingers and quickly snap it to around half throttle a few times in a row and it should rev right up without any hesitation or coughing. The reason I say a couple of fingers is so you can't fat fist it to where it will not snap right to attention. I'm saying flip that throttle fast for this. If it passes that test as well as the last test looking for any lag off idle, then it's about perfect. Do these tests in the order I gave it to you here. You have to fix any lag before even bothering to check it for snappy reaction.

Once we are all happy with this, you can look into the mid range, and that requires reading the plugs.
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  #180  
Old 6th September 2021
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http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=920271

That is my link to reading plugs.
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