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  #881  
Old 5th December 2019
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Hippysmack Hippysmack is offline
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Default Timing the breather valve (57-76)

See if I got this right.
Here's the link in Sportsterpedia.
http://www.sportsterpedia.com/doku.p...:ih:engmech07a

The breather valve must be retimed if disengaged from the oil pump (spherical) drive gear on the pinion shaft.

Finding the advance timing mark on the flywheel

The flywheel needs to be positioned so the advance timing mark on the front cylinder is in the timing window. The single vertical line in most ironhead motors indicates the advance mark used for timing with a timing light. This line is also used for setting the breather and has nothing to do with pinion gear marks, cam marks or TDC of the pistons.

The FSM says to remove the timing plug, rotate the engine until the advance timing mark is centered in the timing hole.
See also Timing Marks in the IH section of the Sportsterpedia for the correct factory advance marks.
http://www.sportsterpedia.com/doku.p...1#timing_marks






However, any particular bike may not have the original flywheels.
So it is most important to always do a simple check to verify which mark to use on the flywheel.
Aftermarket flywheels have been know to have the timing marks cut wrong also.

Pull the front spark plug, and using a wooden dowel or a drinking straw, feel the piston come up as you rotate the engine.
Before it gets to the top, the advance mark will show. As the piston hits the top of the stroke, the TDC mark will come up.
The first mark to come up makes the motor fire “earlier” than the second dot to come up.
Earlier, is advanced. So the first mark to come up, is the advance mark. Some later bikes are reversed, so the type of mark is not consistant, but the geometry is.
Normally. a single vertical line is the advance timing mark on earlier ironheads, not the dot.

To state it another way, rotate the motor forward until the front piston tops out.
Check the mark, that is front TDC.
Now slowly rotate the motor backwards and the first mark you come to will be the front (advanced) timing mark for timing the breather valve.
This will work on any flywheels ever made.
Lock the engine when you've found the advance timing mark so the engine doesn't rotate and lose that position.

Timing the Breather Valve

Rotate the engine to get the advanced timing mark in the timing window as above.
Remove the pinion shaft gear, and turn the engine so the mark on the oil pump drive on the shaft is pointing straight up.
See the Pinion Gear Tools in the REF section of the Sportsterpedia for some helpful ideas on a gear puller / remover.
http://www.sportsterpedia.com/doku.p...1#timing_marks

The pump drive gear is a slip fit over splines on the pinion shaft.
A mark is cut on one side of it which should face outward against the pinion gear when installed.
Line up the timing hole on the breather sleeve gear on the oil pump to be in the notch (window) in the front. It may take a few tries to roll it into place.
Don't sweat it too much if you can't get the dot exactly centered in the notch.
It is not uncommon to have the DOT slightly to the left just entering the notch of the pump.

Then reinstall the pinion gear. It should have one larger spline to engage the shaft and it can only go on one way and have the line facing out.
It's a light press fit onto the pinion shaft.
You can heat the gear up in a grill, oven or with a propane torch just enough to make it expand enough to slide it back on the pinion shaft.
It should not be heated to 'red hot' but just enough to allow it to expand some.

Note: Once the breather valve is correctly timed, the position of the flywheel and breather valve timing marks can be disregarded when installing timing gears (cams).





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Reference the XLFORUM'S Sportsterpedia
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  #882  
Old 5th December 2019
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no cigar
tom terriffic hat please
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  #883  
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That's as terrific as I've gotten.
Elaborate?

edit:
#2 cam is off a tooth but that is the only pic I have found of the breather timing setup.
Should I just do a drawing?

Last edited by Hippysmack; 6th December 2019 at 00:52..
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  #884  
Old 6th December 2019
needspeed needspeed is offline
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The pinion gear should be installed onto the shaft so that the outer face of the gear is 5/16 outboard of the gasket surface. In that position the oil pump drive gear has a lot of end play between the shaft shoulder and the back of the pinion gear as shown in your picture. When the engine runs the drive gear is thrust against the back of the pinion gear.

So if you time the pump with the gear in the opposite direction pushed against the shaft shoulder it's very easy to get the lineup off a tooth. If you are going to pull the pinion gear off you'll need to determine the position where the drive gear will end up with the pinion gear installed. Measuring from the gasket surface the length of the gear minus 5/16 should do it.

Another option to timing is to leave the gears on the shaft and just install the pump while engaging the gears. Sort of like installing a distributor. It may take a few tries to mesh the right teeth because the pump will turn as it's pushed in. One disadvantage though with this method is that you can't turn the pump by hand to see if it's binding which they sometimes do.

The drive gear can only fit on the shaft one way so with the timing mark in the hole it shouldn't be necessary, and it might cause confusion to worry about where the line on the gear is pointing. When the timing mark is in the hole it doesn't make sense to rotate the crank to any other position.
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  #885  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by needspeed View Post

The drive gear can only fit on the shaft one way so with the timing mark in the hole it shouldn't be necessary, and it might cause confusion to worry about where the line on the gear is pointing. When the timing mark is in the hole it doesn't make sense to rotate the crank to any other position.
Yeah, I see your point. The FSM says to face the mark outward.
I would think having the line up is just a way to verify that?
The pump gear could actually be installed in four different positions as long as the mark is facing you instead of the engine?
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  #886  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hippysmack View Post
The pump gear could actually be installed in four different positions as long as the mark is facing you instead of the engine?
No. Up until '77 the pinion shaft and gears had one spline that was wider than the other three so the gears can only be put on one way as far as rotational clocking. But you're right, it would be possible to put the drive gear on with the mark either to the outside or inside.
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  #887  
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no it cannot be reversed
the helical cut of the gears will not mesh
one way to align is to remove the pinion and drive and counter rotate oil pump and install drive gear to get it aligned in the window and the install pinion with depth gauge
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the pcv system goes back to war era and was used to allow vehicles to ford deep water without water intrusion. it never was used to meet emission law as that did not come till decades later.
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  #889  
Old 6th December 2019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bustert View Post
the pcv system goes back to war era and was used to allow vehicles to ford deep water without water intrusion. it never was used to meet emission law as that did not come till decades later.
"Crankcase ventilation" aka crankcase breathers / breathing go back to IC's beginnings. BUT the 1st thing the EPA did, starting in '67, was require routing the breather so the fumes were inhaled and burned rather than being vented to the atmosphere.
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Last edited by Tomcatt; 6th December 2019 at 23:17..
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  #890  
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Ok so the pump drive gear can only be installed one way on the shaft rotationally speaking but can be mechanically installed backwards.
If the drive gear mark is facing you but not facing up, the advance timing mark on the flywheel is not in the timing hole window as it should be.
If the advance timing mark is in the window and you can't see the mark on the drive gear, the gear is backwards.
If the pump drive gear is backwards, the gears won't mesh with the breather gear and the pump will bind.
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