The Sportster and Buell Motorcycle Forum - The XLFORUM®
 

Go Back   The Sportster and Buell Motorcycle Forum - The XLFORUM® > SPORTSTER MOTORCYCLE FORUM > Sportster Motorcycle Motor / Engine > Sportster Motorcycle Motor - Top End
XLF Blogs XLF Arcade XLF Disclaimer/Privacy Statement/Terms Of Use

Notices

Sportster Motorcycle Motor - Top End Discuss Sportster Motorcycle Top End issues. Rockerboxes, Valves, Cylinders, Pistons, Rings, Lift Rods, etc...

Active Threads
0 Keith Black 10:1
Last Post: Boudwood
Posted On: 1 Minute Ago
Replies: 5
Views: 69
5 1200 or 883
Last Post: Glamazon
Posted On: 3 Minutes Ago
Replies: 990
Views: 294,639
0 This is gonna hurt.
Last Post: SoonerSport
Posted On: 3 Minutes Ago
Replies: 7,508
Views: 1,383,186
0 Hello from Northampton, England!
Last Post: Glamazon
Posted On: 7 Minutes Ago
Replies: 6
Views: 36
0 What did you do for your sporty Today?
Last Post: Glamazon
Posted On: 9 Minutes Ago
Replies: 5,397
Views: 609,257
0 Hot Chicks on Hot Bikes
Last Post: trainman
Posted On: 12 Minutes Ago
Replies: 9,230
Views: 1,382,282
0 65 CH barn find/survivor
Last Post: 60weight
Posted On: 43 Minutes Ago
Replies: 116
Views: 21,646
0 S&S Cycle Hooligan 2-2 Exhaust
Last Post: Screw Loose Dan
Posted On: 54 Minutes Ago
Replies: 1
Views: 45
5 Stupid points and timing questions.
Last Post: brucstoudt
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 5
Views: 5,953
0 Chrome or Dark Custom
Last Post: RussW
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 16
Views: 996
0 mode of failure
Last Post: Nibelungen
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 20
Views: 963
0 Hottie of the day, no nudity.
Last Post: Stairman
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 8,127
Views: 627,221
0 Official XLForum Poll: What kind of bars are you running?
Last Post: Crash7557
Posted On: 2 Hours Ago
Replies: 644
Views: 138,001
0 Proposed clutch spring improvement0
Last Post: Serious Blac
Posted On: 2 Hours Ago
Replies: 19
Views: 525
0 Spokes or Mags
Last Post: Whylee
Posted On: 2 Hours Ago
Replies: 325
Views: 57,725
0 is a buell a harley
Last Post: Bone
Posted On: 2 Hours Ago
Replies: 144
Views: 11,687
0 Weekend at Jester's
Last Post: wedge
Posted On: 3 Hours Ago
Replies: 37
Views: 4,182
0 2020 H-D response to the Indian FTR1200?
Last Post: Bwf347
Posted On: 3 Hours Ago
Replies: 98
Views: 5,607
0 Hot Rods, Rat Rods, and Customs.
Last Post: wedge
Posted On: 3 Hours Ago
Replies: 2,685
Views: 231,571
0 Small nail in tire?? plug or replace
Last Post: rider61
Posted On: 3 Hours Ago
Replies: 130
Views: 18,959
0 Do you use premium gas in your Sportster?
Last Post: Bone
Posted On: 4 Hours Ago
Replies: 1,692
Views: 319,310
0 New T Shirts
Last Post: Flame__
Posted On: 4 Hours Ago
Replies: 15
Views: 481
0 Gravydog crashed again.
Last Post: Crusty
Posted On: 5 Hours Ago
Replies: 59
Views: 1,707
6 Is Your SPORTSTER...
Last Post: rokytnji
Posted On: 5 Hours Ago
Replies: 6
Views: 800
0 WTB Front Engine Mounts for 2001 1200XLS
Last Post: Agave
Posted On: 5 Hours Ago
Replies: 5
Views: 209
0 Harley Davidson Street 750 and Street 500/New Liquid-Cooled Revolution X Engines
Last Post: ParrotHead
Posted On: 6 Hours Ago
Replies: 1,209
Views: 143,617
0 How many miles do you have on your rubbermount?
Last Post: ParrotHead
Posted On: 7 Hours Ago
Replies: 395
Views: 73,297
0 Clutch gone out of adjustment seems like a lot
Last Post: jordan1200
Posted On: 8 Hours Ago
Replies: 24
Views: 393
0 Sweetwater BBQ and Campout and Swapmeet with Bands
Last Post: Flame__
Posted On: 8 Hours Ago
Replies: 11
Views: 699
0 rattling after installing oil cooler.
Last Post: Grumpy-Biker
Posted On: 8 Hours Ago
Replies: 24
Views: 913
More...
Members Birthdays
PlanB, Cuco6924 (72), 1200sporty (61), iron68 (47), LifesHarlequin (34), mattosm (33)
Tags
blue smoke, compression test, rings, valves

Sponsored Links
Reply
 
Share Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 4th August 2018
T_worth T_worth is offline
Biker
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 28
Sportster/Buell Model: Xlh 1200
Sportster/Buell Year: 96
Reputation: 10
T_worth is an unknown quantity at this point
Default blue exhaust smoke but good compression test

So I noticed that my rear cylinder exhaust blows blue smoke with any amount of throttle. Wiping the inside of the rear exhaust pipe with a rag leaves a black wet oily/greasy residue. I performed a compression test. Got the engine warm, left air cleaner on, WOT and with 7-9 stokes had a gauge reading of F-170psi and R-175psi. Front and rear cylinders are within 10psi of each other. Curious how I have good compression but have signs of burning oil. I poured about a teaspoon or so of oil in the rear cylinder to see if the gauge would read differently. 7-9 strokes later, and it reads 190psi. Clymer manual says if compression increases "significantly", the valves are good but the rings are defective.

is 15psi considered a "significant" amount? If my compression test is good, why am I burning oil? What else could I look for?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 5th August 2018
mikeLI_77's Avatar
mikeLI_77 mikeLI_77 is offline
XL FORUM LIFE MEMBER
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 4,612
Sportster/Buell Model: XL1250c
Sportster/Buell Year: 2002
Reputation: 1154533
mikeLI_77 has a reputation beyond reputemikeLI_77 has a reputation beyond reputemikeLI_77 has a reputation beyond reputemikeLI_77 has a reputation beyond reputemikeLI_77 has a reputation beyond reputemikeLI_77 has a reputation beyond reputemikeLI_77 has a reputation beyond reputemikeLI_77 has a reputation beyond reputemikeLI_77 has a reputation beyond reputemikeLI_77 has a reputation beyond reputemikeLI_77 has a reputation beyond repute
Default

A leak down test should tell you how your piston rings are doing. If your valves are good the rings should be the issue. Only other way oil will get in there is if your head breather is still routed into the carb and is puking so much oil out of the vents and putting it into the intake and burning it.
__________________
2002 XL1200C (originally)



Hammer 1250 kit W/ 30° reverse dome pistons, billet 2.25" crush forward offset open air cleaner, billet intake manifold, Impact 560's, Sledge Hammer pushrods, Buell XB heads with crush level head porting, Mikuni HSR 45, 177.5 main, 25 slow, Clip 4th slot from top, Jim's powerglide II lifters,
Supertrapp supermeg exhaust 20 disks and open end cap, S&S roller rockers, Alto Carbonite clutch with Energy One 15% heavier spring plate, Daytona twin tech single fire ignition 1005s
Ricor intimnators, 13" Ricor IAS shocks, Brembo dual disk setup from a 2012 street glide with matching brembo street glide master cylinder,
Koso T&T multi function speedo/tach

States I Have rode through
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 5th August 2018
T_worth T_worth is offline
Biker
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 28
Sportster/Buell Model: Xlh 1200
Sportster/Buell Year: 96
Reputation: 10
T_worth is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

I did a leak down test, and the rear cylinder went from 175psi to 190psi. I don't know if thats "significant" enough like the manual states.

I have an S&S Super E carb, the breather bolts are routed back to the carb. I just put on a new air cleaner and noticed 2 small oil stains that dried up on the gearcase cover that must have dripped from the air cleaner cover. But I took it off and it wasn't covered in oil. I don't know if its leaking that bad that its going back into the intake. I feel like there would be more of an oil mess in the air cleaner if that was the case. But maybe I'm wrong
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 5th August 2018
bustert's Avatar
bustert bustert is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 8,405
Sportster/Buell Model: 1200s
Sportster/Buell Year: 2001
Sportster/Buell Model #2: xlch
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1974
Reputation: 1323806
bustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond repute
Default

having good compression rings and good oil control rings are two diff animals. yep, you can have it both ways.
also, having good valve closure has nothing to do with good valve stem seals.
also of note is excessive bore taper. since the oil control is basically a squeegee and really not designed to hold compression, they can become miniature oil pumps.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 5th August 2018
shanneba shanneba is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Franklin, Indiana
Posts: 1,348
Sportster/Buell Model: XL1200C
Sportster/Buell Year: 2013
Reputation: 1180888
shanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond repute
Default

If the oil burning was from the breathers going into the intake wouldn't both cylinders be seeing blue smoke out the exhaust?

Compression Test Results

Code:
Compression low on first stroke, builds            Ring trouble
up on the following strokes, but does not
reach normal. Improves when oil is
added to cylinder.

Compression low on first stroke, does                Valve trouble
not build up on following strokes. Does              Head gasket leak
not improve with the addition of oil.               Incorrect pushrod length
__________________
2013 XL1200C

Find your Owner's Manual, Wiring Diagram and Parts List here :

https://serviceinfo.harley-davidson....cle/lookupForm
Enter your VIN OR
Use the search - enter year and model

If something doesn't work on your Sportster look here:
SportsterPedia.com
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 7th August 2018
T_worth T_worth is offline
Biker
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 28
Sportster/Buell Model: Xlh 1200
Sportster/Buell Year: 96
Reputation: 10
T_worth is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Thats true. I am 80% sure I am not blowing smoke out of my front cylinder. I haven't noticed, and the exhaust pipe has dry carbon deposits, not oily residue like the rear. I'll have to take a closer look next time I'm at the garage though. My front cylinder compression reading was 170psi, and I only did a leak down test on the rear cylinder because I knew blue smoke and the oily black residue.

My rear cylinder went up 15psi with the leak down test. Is that "significant" enough? (sorry I'm caught up on this word so much) like the manual says? Or, is any amount 5psi-45psi mean its damaged rings?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 7th August 2018
shanneba shanneba is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Franklin, Indiana
Posts: 1,348
Sportster/Buell Model: XL1200C
Sportster/Buell Year: 2013
Reputation: 1180888
shanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond reputeshanneba has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Before taking the heads off for oil consumption or blue exhaust smoke check:

Check Prior to Cylinder Head Removal
1. Oil tank overfilled.
2. Oil carryover.
3. Breather hose restricted.
4. Restricted oil filter.


My 2013 service manual shows a 1200 compression being okay at 150 psi, the earlier ones may be a little lower. The 2013 1200s have a 9.7 to 1 compression ratio.

Compression is below specification if the readings
are 100 psi (6.89 bar) for 883 cc engines or 150 psi
(10.3 bar) for 1200 cc engines.




Did you do a leak down test?

That requires making sure the engine can not turn, getting the piston on the compression stroke and then putting compressed air into the cylinder to see if it holds the pressure.

You can normally tell if air is escaping through the valves if you get air from the intake or exhaust.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 7th August 2018
Scuba10jdl's Avatar
Scuba10jdl Scuba10jdl is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 1,257
Sportster/Buell Model: XLH883/1250
Sportster/Buell Year: 2002
Sportster/Buell Model #2: XLCH 1000
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1972
Reputation: 292656
Scuba10jdl has a reputation beyond reputeScuba10jdl has a reputation beyond reputeScuba10jdl has a reputation beyond reputeScuba10jdl has a reputation beyond reputeScuba10jdl has a reputation beyond reputeScuba10jdl has a reputation beyond reputeScuba10jdl has a reputation beyond reputeScuba10jdl has a reputation beyond reputeScuba10jdl has a reputation beyond reputeScuba10jdl has a reputation beyond reputeScuba10jdl has a reputation beyond repute
Default

If you're burning oil on hard acceleration, it's 9 times out of 10 going to be bad rings. Like bustert said above, bad oil control rings won't show up in a compression test (or leak down) as that's not what they're designed to do.

I've had to replace ring sets due to burning oil (bad oil control ring) even though they had perfect compression numbers.
__________________

2002 XLH883/HAMMER1250 - 1972 XLCH 1000 - Few things in life are as satisfying as riding a Sportster with no destination in mind.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Sponsored Links
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 23:13.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
XL Forum® - Linson Media LLC