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  #11  
Old 1st May 2013
sonostorm sonostorm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sportsterdoc View Post
How brittle was the diaphragm?
If it is not seated, the needle will not lift.
However, this has no affect at idle
diaphragm looked good.
idle is ok.

kit came from j&p (just looked). exactly as described and got to me fast, so no honest complaints about it. (however, jets are 150-190 in increments of 10, so i had to buy the 175 from the dealer). again, exactly as described, so i cant lay blame on them.

would a thin layer of vaseline around the manifold and carb seal it?
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  #12  
Old 1st May 2013
sonostorm sonostorm is offline
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Originally Posted by sportsterdoc View Post
Whatever was used from a "cheap kit" is suspect.
The float may be low or you may not have fully seated the carb, when it was re-installed...it is VERY easy to do.
Just spitting on your finger and moistening the inside of the intake manifold rubber is much better than shoving it in dry.

I no longer have the FSM, to advise the distance, but you should measure the float height from the bowl surface, per the manual spec.

If you have no vacuum leak and if the float level is fairly close, you need a 45 pilot, a richer needle / shimmed needle to avoid carb pops, the mixture at about 2 1/2 turns and the main only matters at mainly WOT.

You are more likely to have a vacuum leak than a float height issue
ah. so lower the shim on the needle from 2nd slot to 3rd?
pilot jet is already 45.
would a thin layer of vaseline around the edge of the manifold and carb seal it?

kit was from j&p. exactly as described and fast, so no honest complaints with them. i think its me and lack of skill.
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  #13  
Old 1st May 2013
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sportsterdoc sportsterdoc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonostorm View Post
ah. so lower the shim on the needle from 2nd slot to 3rd?
pilot jet is already 45.
would a thin layer of vaseline around the edge of the manifold and carb seal it?

kit was from j&p. exactly as described and fast, so no honest complaints with them. i think its me and lack of skill.
I'd prefer to know the exact needle, for which H-D has charts about lean or rich
Every Sportster, for many years, is lean since the EPA got involved, so a 45 pilot and richer needle would benefit then all.
Cannot advise about needle, not knowing what it is.
Vaseline would work, but I prefer water, or water with a little soap.
As for the shim, that depends upon whether it stumbles when it transitions from idle to mid-range.
How is it doing, right now?
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  #14  
Old 2nd May 2013
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He is runnig straight pipes with no baffles..................
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  #15  
Old 2nd May 2013
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Don Burton Don Burton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sportsterdoc View Post
I'd prefer to know the exact needle, for which H-D has charts about lean or rich
Every Sportster, for many years, is lean since the EPA got involved, so a 45 pilot and richer needle would benefit then all.
Cannot advise about needle, not knowing what it is.
Vaseline would work, but I prefer water, or water with a little soap.
As for the shim, that depends upon whether it stumbles when it transitions from idle to mid-range.
How is it doing, right now?
I've never seen nor heard of any official H-D/Keihin needle chart that shows needles from lean to rich. There are a lot of charts out there that aren't helpful as they don't show where the needle is rich or lean, and there are others that are just plain inaccurate. None that I have seen are official and all have just been put together by someone. I'd love to see an offical H-D/Keihin chart of the different needles.

Not every bike needs a 45 pilot, it all depends on the setup and how it runs. However a bike with straight pipes will likely need one but it is going to be impossible to get running as well as a bike with a proper exhaust and its going to backfire as well, so the first thing that I would do is to install baffles.

I agree. I wouldn't run a needle that I knew nothing about either.

I agree with not using vaseline (or any other petroleum based lube) to lubricate the rubber carb boot when slipping the carb in. I use a little dish soap in water.
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  #16  
Old 3rd May 2013
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Skinny Kenny on Sportster.org had a very detailed chart of many needles, with multiple dimensions. I will email him and ask if he still has it.

Meanwhile, this link shows performance with my favorite needle, the 27094-88 (N65C)
http://www.nrhsperformance.com/tech_cvneedles.shtml

This is not a plug for NRS (not quite the same company as Nallins, of which Aaron Wilson did some work on Art Northrup Jr's 1650 cc LSR motor)
http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/lsr_gallery.htm

See also http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/hdcvcarbappendix.htm
My 2002 1200S came with a NOKT, a very lean needle, not be be confused with the NOKK, which is almost as rich as the N65C.

I mention this, not as a catch-all for ultimate tuning of the CV-40, but as a measure to alleviate the extreme leanness of the 42 pilot, stock idle mixture and stock needle...especially in California bikes.
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  #17  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sportsterdoc View Post
Skinny Kenny on Sportster.org had a very detailed chart of many needles, with multiple dimensions. I will email him and ask if he still has it.

Meanwhile, this link shows performance with my favorite needle, the 27094-88 (N65C)
http://www.nrhsperformance.com/tech_cvneedles.shtml

This is not a plug for NRS (not quite the same company as Nallins, of which Aaron Wilson did some work on Art Northrup Jr's 1650 cc LSR motor)
http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/lsr_gallery.htm

See also http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/hdcvcarbappendix.htm
My 2002 1200S came with a NOKT, a very lean needle, not be be confused with the NOKK, which is almost as rich as the N65C.

I mention this, not as a catch-all for ultimate tuning of the CV-40, but as a measure to alleviate the extreme leanness of the 42 pilot, stock idle mixture and stock needle...especially in California bikes.

Yes, I've been to all of the sites that you have linked to many times. NHRS's chart basically shows that what needle you run doesn't make a whole lot of difference on a WOT run and nothing else. It actually shows that the N65C needle makes slightly less Max HP in their test mule than the other needles they used. I suspect (but don't know for a fact) that the reason for that is that the N65C is a longer needle and is still hanging down further at WOT. Shimming of course is usually done to bring on the taper more quickly but in this case I wonder if a 40 thou shim (which would pull the needle up further at WOT) would increase the mx HP output? Who knows? It's just a hunch.

I agree that the N65C needle is a great needle if you need one that is quite a bit richer on the straight portion (at low throttle settings) due to wide open intake and exhausts. However, f you measure it you will see that the NOKK has a much different profile than the N65C. The N65A needle from the 1988 49 state 883s is richer than than the NOKK. Even the N4NN needle in the rubbermount 1200s is richer than some ofthe earlier needles. We have a sticky in the carb section detailing the actual measurements made by my brother of a few of these needles. Unfortunately he's no longer working as an engineer so our work on that needle project has ended. Fortunately we have some of the favorite needles so we have been able to compile some information that is useful for tuning purposes.

Art and Aaron are two clever guys!
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  #18  
Old 3rd May 2013
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If you're not stumbling as you turn the needle in you may need a smaller jet.

The way to do the idle drop is turn the mixture screw out until it stumbles then count the turns in until it stumbles. Turn the screw out half that amount. Personally, I prefer the stock needles with no shims until you're really fine tuning.

If you can't hear the stumble it could also be that you're idle is too high and you may have to turn it down to adjust.
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  #19  
Old 3rd May 2013
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sportsterdoc sportsterdoc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Burton View Post
Yes, I've been to all of the sites that you have linked to many times. NHRS's chart basically shows that what needle you run doesn't make a whole lot of difference on a WOT run and nothing else. It actually shows that the N65C needle makes slightly less Max HP in their test mule than the other needles they used. I suspect (but don't know for a fact) that the reason for that is that the N65C is a longer needle and is still hanging down further at WOT. Shimming of course is usually done to bring on the taper more quickly but in this case I wonder if a 40 thou shim (which would pull the needle up further at WOT) would increase the mx HP output? Who knows? It's just a hunch.

I agree that the N65C needle is a great needle if you need one that is quite a bit richer on the straight portion (at low throttle settings) due to wide open intake and exhausts. However, f you measure it you will see that the NOKK has a much different profile than the N65C. The N65A needle from the 1988 49 state 883s is richer than than the NOKK. Even the N4NN needle in the rubbermount 1200s is richer than some of the earlier needles. We have a sticky in the carb section detailing the actual measurements made by my brother of a few of these needles. Unfortunately he's no longer working as an engineer so our work on that needle project has ended. Fortunately we have some of the favorites so we have some information that is useful for tuning purposes.

Art and Aaron are two clever guys!
I've seen one of your threads about this, circa 2008 and applaud your investigation. My primary interest in re-jetting was to get away from the off-throttle stumble, and to not run so hot. I preferred slightly richer, at the sacrifice of a few HP. Even so, the 1200S is very quick to 110 in 4th...never went max in 5th...and runs much cooler.
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