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Sportster Motorcycle Engine Conversions Advice, questions, and tips for 1200, 1250, 1340, 1450 etc... for Sportster and Buell motorcycle engine conversions

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  #101  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
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iNSaNeSHaNe iNSaNeSHaNe is offline
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This is very troubling to me saying you have pinging with the timing so low.
I run a 23-48 gear on my IH stroker good over all for highway and mountain twisties.
I started out with high compression 11.5:1 but went to a lower compression because I was having problems getting decent fuel on the road when going to rallies.
Your plugs look to be decent not too far off from the pics. I run a colder plug on the right side of the engine on my dual plugged motors FYI. and timing I run a ramp starting at 2300 and maxing out at 3000 where I run at 36° BTDC TT , usually a really good starting point to find the top end
The problem I have is the cranking compression is very high for having the cams you say are in the engine.
You say you checked the cam timing and it is spot on so next I would look into the lifters..... I know you say you put in the solids kit, but can you verify they are not collapsing giving you slower valve opening and more compression ..
This is the only spot I can see if you are 100% sure the cams are in correctly. I mean did you put front cylinder at tdc with a stop and a degree wheel to verify, or just rely on the factory marks.
I always check this with aftermarket cams because it can be wayyy off..

Good luck !!
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  #102  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iNSaNeSHaNe View Post
This is very troubling to me saying you have pinging with the timing so low.
I run a 23-48 gear on my IH stroker good over all for highway and mountain twisties.
I started out with high compression 11.5:1 but went to a lower compression because I was having problems getting decent fuel on the road when going to rallies.
Your plugs look to be decent not too far off from the pics. I run a colder plug on the right side of the engine on my dual plugged motors FYI. and timing I run a ramp starting at 2300 and maxing out at 3000 where I run at 36° BTDC TT , usually a really good starting point to find the top end
The problem I have is the cranking compression is very high for having the cams you say are in the engine.
You say you checked the cam timing and it is spot on so next I would look into the lifters..... I know you say you put in the solids kit, but can you verify they are not collapsing giving you slower valve opening and more compression ..
This is the only spot I can see if you are 100% sure the cams are in correctly. I mean did you put front cylinder at tdc with a stop and a degree wheel to verify, or just rely on the factory marks.
I always check this with aftermarket cams because it can be wayyy off..

Good luck !!
Thanks iNSaNeSHaNe.
I was using a total of 24° deg on previous engine (single plug) and it was Ok No pinging.
Same cams on old engine Redshift 615v2
Yes I checked the cam position and they are aligned with marks/dots. I've not checked with a degree wheel.
I rely on the factory marks even because If the dots/marks were off.. they would be even with the old engine..

The old engine was with .030 head gaskets and NO gaskets on base cylinders (only Three Bond) and stock lenght rods 6.926".
WHen I discovered the rods a bit loose on old engine... I ordered for the new engine the longer Carrillo rods (6.938") = 0.012 longer.
But new engine uses 0.030 Head gaskets and WITH base gaskets.
The important at the end is that the squish were/is the same with the same (the new are coated) 30° deg domed pistons.

About lifters, yes I swapped the old Jims big axle powerglide (Hydraulic) with the S&S with limited travel kit. I have installed solid with only 3/4 to 1 turns of the Fine threads of the pushrods, shortened from bottomed position .

I have to say that the bike runs fast good and with no big problems. It idles good at 900/950 rpm, has fantastic throttle response and the top end is infinite too. It's scaring because it lifts the front in an a abrupt and scaring way in first and in 2nd too (and I need only half throttle for this) . In third it want to lift but it's only a sensation of light frond end.

It pings only in Hot days.
This is not really correct: It pings only when it's fully warmed (HOT I'd say). If I exclude the little pings on light trhottle at low rpm. (I need only to be carefull on throttle at traffic light or on a really slow turns/intersections (say 10mph) in 2nd gear.

What I want to get rid of is the situation after 25/30 min when the engine is really really hot (heads rocker covers hot!) and i want to do a 1/2 or 3/4 throttle starting from 4000rpm.

Yes I say really really hot.
But the difference I'm noticing with the old engine is that the old one was with about 190 deg oil temp and the new one is with the same exact temps (around 190° - 195 °)
BUT the old engine was not burning my finger on rocker boxes like this new one.
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  #103  
Old 4 Weeks Ago
jkinkade jkinkade is offline
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Sounds impressive!
do you know what AFR is under load when it's hot?
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  #104  
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Sounds impressive!
do you know what AFR is under load when it's hot?
12.0 to 12.5 , but it's difficult to say without a printed log.
When I try a WOT (usually in third or 4th ) I'm at about 3500 rpm. It goes flat to 11 AFR (acceleration pump action), then it lean to 11.5 to 12.... but I feel it pings and I'm at 5000-5500 rpm so I close the throttle to avoid further problems.
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  #105  
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Originally Posted by conv90 View Post
12.0 to 12.5 , but it's difficult to say without a printed log.
When I try a WOT (usually in third or 4th ) I'm at about 3500 rpm. It goes flat to 11 AFR (acceleration pump action), then it lean to 11.5 to 12.... but I feel it pings and I'm at 5000-5500 rpm so I close the throttle to avoid further problems.
Your doing everything right. only thing I can think of without pulling heads off. is to buy some VP C16 race gas. to add a quart or a Litre to a tank of gas. it won't make bike faster but it will stop detonation.
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  #106  
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Yes, but I have to say that even with regular gas I can go everywhere , I only need to stay with gas under 1/4. So I can cruise up to 150 km/ with no ping. And with a only 1/4 limit i can go really fast everywhere in a very fast way.

But I have a question for experts just to explain the possible cause of really hot rocker covers..
You know I have S&S lifters with limited travel kit. They are adjusted per instruction like solid but with only a minimal travel allowed) .
If oil flows to rockers covers thru the lifters and thru the holes in the pushrods....
....It's probably reasonable to think that due to the minimal or zero oil in the lifters the oil directed to the rockers is near to zero?

And .... what with a REAL solid kit? no oil to rockers at all?
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  #107  
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I added some fuel even because it's starting to be cold.
On Mikini Hsr48. Raised a notch the needle. 190 mail (it was 185).
Now it's about 12 AFR.
It seems is not pinging now (with 98 octane fuel).
During 3 or 4 weeks of the winter I'll check again the squish and I'll see if there is need to swap to .040 head gaskets.

I'm evaluating to change the Clutch Gear with a 17 th and then Countershaft Drive Gear with a 27 th. I have these parts somewhere in the garage. They are 86-84 parts. With a 22T sprocket and a 46 rear I'll be able to have same 21-48 ratios and a taller 4th gear.
I first thought to a 23-48 combo but I can't find an offset front 23 T sprocket.
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  #108  
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Originally Posted by conv90 View Post
I added some fuel even because it's starting to be cold.
On Mikini Hsr48. Raised a notch the needle. 190 mail (it was 185).
Now it's about 12 AFR.
It seems is not pinging now (with 98 octane fuel).
During 3 or 4 weeks of the winter I'll check again the squish and I'll see if there is need to swap to .040 head gaskets.

I'm evaluating to change the Clutch Gear with a 17 th and then Countershaft Drive Gear with a 27 th. I have these parts somewhere in the garage. They are 86-84 parts. With a 22T sprocket and a 46 rear I'll be able to have same 21-48 ratios and a taller 4th gear.
I first thought to a 23-48 combo but I can't find an offset front 23 T sprocket.
what does your final gear ratio work out at now?
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  #109  
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what does your final gear ratio work out at now?
The ratio is the 883 ratio. it's a close ratio with 21T 48T. I've used even in the past the 22T 48T (taller). I prefer it but i agree it can add a bit of load on low rpm. So I returned to 21-48 and it's OK but at 4000 -4500 rpm is too prone to wheely. It scares me. But I can live with it.

At a side I can say that if at 4500 rpm in 4th gear (with 21-48) if I close for a tenth and I suddendly open the gas It lift the front wheel even in 4th gear....only a pair of inches but it lift the front.

Last friday i was in 2nd gear and I was opening a bit the throttle stretching a bit the rpm . The bike misses (because it was entering in reserve) so I istintively opened WOT the gas , but some fuel entered again in the carb and the front wheel lifted almost immediately. I really don't know how I avoided to loop.

The mode I have in mind is to change from stock "C" close ratio of 87-90 to stock ratio of 84-86 sportsters.

With 22T front and 46T rear i'll end with almost the same ratios of now (21T 48T and stock "C" ratio) on 1 to 2 to 3 , but the 4th gear (1:1 ratio) will be taller to allow me to let rest the engine while in Highway.
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  #110  
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I had a 4 speed Shovel 98", I like low gears as easy on the motor.
I'll have my 5 speed 88" 03 sporty runing soon. I've got the bobby wood rebel 435 carb. did you see Mat's post on what he has use with the Mik 48 and helped AFR ( worth looking at.)
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