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View Poll Results: What synthetic oil brand do you use in your cars or your bike. You choose more than 1
Amsoil 338 24.46%
Mobil1 535 38.71%
HD SYN3 289 20.91%
Royal purple 57 4.12%
Shell 16 1.16%
Castrol 83 6.01%
Penziol 12 0.87%
Other 210 15.20%
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  #381  
Old 19th September 2018
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Redline 20w50.
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  #382  
Old 14th February 2019
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Nevermind. LOL
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  #383  
Old 14th February 2019
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The local oil distributor stopped by the shop one day almost 40 yrs ago now. Had a show n' tell on Mobil I synthetic showing bearings from two of their Indy car sponsored engines. One ran with their premium racing oil the other with Mobil I synthetic. Bearing shells from the dino oil engine were worn to the copper and scored. The synthetic oiled engine bearings looked like new, they also had new shells for comparison. I've been using Mobil I products in everything I own ever since. My bikes get changed every 5K, eng, pri & trans - no failure of any kind. Good oil, regularly changed, is a cheap overhaul
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  #384  
Old 13th March 2019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klown View Post
Synthetic is obviously better, so what brand does everybody use. I'm wondering what the most popular brand is. I have a suspicion that Amsoil is not very popular, just because you can't get it as easily as the others.

You sure about that? This says otherwise. The VR1 is not synthetic.
Carry on...

http://https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/1967684/1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akdawg View Post
The local oil distributor stopped by the shop one day almost 40 yrs ago now. Had a show n' tell on Mobil I synthetic showing bearings from two of their Indy car sponsored engines. One ran with their premium racing oil the other with Mobil I synthetic. Bearing shells from the dino oil engine were worn to the copper and scored. The synthetic oiled engine bearings looked like new, they also had new shells for comparison. I've been using Mobil I products in everything I own ever since. My bikes get changed every 5K, eng, pri & trans - no failure of any kind. Good oil, regularly changed, is a cheap overhaul
According to the analysis in the above link, the M1 V-TWIN suffered major breakdown before your 5,000 mile interval after being subjected to 300° temps for an hour. The Valvoline VR1 Racing oil (dino no less) is clearly the choice there wouldn't you say?

I'll stick with the VR1 @ 1/3 of the cost. Nothing more to say.

Last edited by 60Gunner; 13th March 2019 at 22:47..
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  #385  
Old 14th March 2019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 60Gunner View Post
You sure about that?
That link indicates that the Valvoline is a fine oil but it doesn't compare VR1 synthetic v VR1 dino back to back, so it's hard to say
what effect the base stock has in this instance. But, the performance of refined mineral oil versus hydrocracked mineral or gas to
liquid oil 'synthetics' are likely to overlap nowadays, which I think is your point. Group IIIs base stocks can be marketed as 'synthetic,'
which has largely rendered it a marketing term nowadays. Back in the day 'synthetic' meant group IV or V base stocks. And it has been
reported that there is a shortage of PAO base stocks.

Last edited by Folkie; 14th March 2019 at 13:15.. Reason: Fixed quote
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  #386  
Old 14th March 2019
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I really don't think it makes much difference. In the case of VR1 anyway. And for what it's worth, conventional VR1 has a higher Flashpoint than synthetic VR1. But I think the main reason most run the conventional is they mistake the synthetic with Valvoline's VV851 Not For Street Legal racing oil which has even higher levels of zinc/phosphorus than VR1 and no detergents.
VR1 has been reformulated with slightly lower zinc/phosphorus levels and is actually safe for use with Cat systems tho most won't run it.
But it's the no detergents in the VV851 Not For Street Legal that make it not such a good choice for street use as it's designed for maximum protection for a short period then dumped. VR1 however is an excellent choice. Especially in these air cooled Harley motors where temps can creep to the danger zone. Especially when idling in traffic on a 95 degree day. Or after a hard run and air circulation suddenly slows or stops. This is where I think even the best of typical synthetics start to fail and in the cases referenced in that link, start to break down when run for too many miles. 5000 in this case.
That isn't the first case of such a break down for M1 V-twin documented there either and Amsoil seems to behave the same way. Whether it's the high heat or contamination from fuel, moisture(condensation), or whatever, doesn't matter quite so much.
I have nothing against the synthetics listed here. All of them are fine oils and better than most dino oil when it comes to protection in extreme conditions. Except VR1 that is.
I suppose the case could be made that synthetic VR1 is better than Conventional VR1 but I don't run it long enough to really matter as I change it ever 1500 miles. Sometimes less. At $4.60/qt it's still a better deal than $12/qt.
I believe synthetic VR1 is around $9/qt.
This is where I have a problem with the Synthetics like M1 V-Twin and all the others listed here. People just assume it's safe to run them for X # of miles without a thought as to possible contamination from fuel or moisture etc. Maybe it hasn't broken down yet but now you're running compromised oil for 2 or 3 times the miles you would be with conventional oil causing wear of internal parts, often unnoticed.
This is why I still like to use conventional and dump it more often. Now you can do the same with synthetic and get the protection from heat most feel it better serves. But @ $12/qt?
I prefer to use the VR1 for that. It does a better job. It's designed for just that and it's more cost effective. A win/win in my book.

Anyway, run what you want but don't assume it's the best just because it's synthetic.
I'll stick with the VR1 Conventional and change it frequently. I know my oil is always clean and Im getting the best possible protection from the #1 source of engine damage...HEAT. And I'm getting it at $4.60/qt buying it by the case at Amazon. $6/qt at the parts stores.

Last edited by 60Gunner; 14th March 2019 at 14:48..
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  #387  
Old 14th March 2019
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Quote:
I really don't think it makes much difference. In the case of VR1 anyway............I suppose the case could be made that synthetic VR1 is better than Conventional VR1
The point I made is that we don't know, as the link you supplied did not provide data to compare the effect of the two base stocks.

Quote:
That isn't the first case of such a break down for M1 V-twin documented there either and Amsoil seems to behave the same way.
When you say 'breakdown', do you mean the M1 oil analysis showed up some thickening with otherwise very acceptable wear metals?

I don't think are disagreeing overall. As I said, there is likely to be more overlap in performance as the goalposts have shifted as to
what can be sold as 'synthetic' oil, coupled with a reported supply issues for group iV synthetic base stocks. It seems plausible that
some traditional oils could offer a better bang for your buck than hydrocracked group III sold as 'synthetic.' The MI ESP oil I use in
my car has been reformulated and the quoted specs have fallen; it lost the BMW approval; so I won't be paying their price premium
in future. I don't know if that is the case with M1 Vtwin.

As you say, we have a choice. Use what you like.
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  #388  
Old 14th March 2019
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Not sure how you could improve on the near 0 wear metals of the conventional!
Yes, the breakdown I'm referring to is the thickening and yes, it obviously protects quite well otherwise with very low wear metals detected. But so did the VR1 Conventional at a 1/3 the cost.
That thickening causes friction and wear too and it's a lot less likely to happen with an oil that gets changed more frequently. But start changing the synthetics more frequently and it's even less cost effective.
But then the reason it's happening really isn't clear. Apparently it wasn't an isolated case tho.
I considered the idea of blending the VR1 Conventional and Vr1 Synthetic. Not sure there would be any benefit tho.
I just see comments here about synthetic obviously being the best choice. Less savvy people come here and take this as the gospel truth and think it's 100% true and safe to run it for God knows how many miles and they unwittingly cause unnecessary wear.
Anyway, I made my point and I'm confident in my decision to run the VR1 and change it more often.
My 2 cases just shipped in fact. That's 4 oil changes for $50+.
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  #389  
Old 17th March 2019
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I must have posted what brand I use in another thread, years ago. I've been using Mobil 1 Syn. V Twin 20w50 in my '06 for 10 years now.
Here are a few things from Mobil 1's website that sold me on it:
.
In addition to the overall benefits listed above – specifically, high-temperature stability and low volatility/low oil consumption – Mobil 1 synthetic motorcycle oils also offer superior anti-corrosion performance compared to conventional motor oil, which is important in many parts of the country where bikes may sit in garages for several months of the year. Compared to conventional oils, Mobil 1 motorcycle oils provide superior wear and high-temperature protection, and promote engine cleanliness and lower oil consumption. Once you get beyond these general advantages, you have to consider individual motorcycle oils to understand the benefits of each.
.


Mobil 1™ V-Twin 20W-50 fully synthetic motorcycle oil is designed for air-cooled, large-displacement bikes. Because of their design, these engines can generate very high localized oil temperatures and high overall bulk-oil temperatures. As you know, a typical air-cooled V-twin's rear cylinder gets a lot hotter than the front cylinder – it's a matter of airflow. When it's hot out and you're stuck in traffic, the oil temperature in your bike climbs rapidly. Above about 250 degrees Fahrenheit, conventional motor oil is going to break down. Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W-50 fully synthetic motorcycle oil is good to above 300 degrees Fahrenheit. Like Mobil 1 Racing™ 4T 10W-40, Mobil 1 V-Twin motorcycle oil has high levels of phosphorus/zinc and the same high-temperature detergent technology for superior wear protection and engine cleanliness, even at elevated oil temperatures. With Mobil 1 V-Twin motorcycle oil, you can go the full length of the manufacturer's recommended oil change intervals with ease.
.

Now I have nothing against "dino" oils. They've served me well in the past. But, to be honest, I hate changing oil constantly, so the longer I can go between changes the happier I am. I just can't see wasting so much oil on frequent changes, either. The benefits, I FEEL, I get from using a synthetic oil are that it doesn't "milk out" from moisture, it takes 3-5 times longer to wear out, withstands excessive heat from stop and go riding on those +90F days, and it doesn't build corrosives and acids while setting over the excessively cold winters we have here, where I live.
The price of Mobil 1 Vtwin oil in my area is less than twice the price of a good "dino" motorcycle oil. So I know I'm saving money using it.
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  #390  
Old 17th March 2019
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I'm not even going to comment on that Toejam. lol
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