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  #21  
Old 13th September 2018
farmall farmall is offline
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Cooling effectiveness is measurable, and position in feed or return is irrelevant to reducing fluid temperature. Temperature DROP between cooler inlet and outlet is what matters to the system.

Pump inlet restriction must be avoided in gravity feed systems so while "getting away" with a cooler on the feed line is fine there is zero functional advantage and potential, especially in cold weather, for pump cavitation. There's nothing new to invent in terms of dry sump oil systems. You won't see aircraft coolers between reservoir and pump inlet because crashing is bad.

Want cool oil? Increase cooler surface area and avoid chrome which interferes with heat transfer. I hung a large ATV cooler on the front of my Shovel to experiment (it's about twice the area of the old Lockharts) and that dramatically changed how hot the engine gets in SC summers. You can hear the difference because Shovels don't normally shed heat very well.

Cute decorative little coolers are trash on a motorcycle. There are lots of functional choices available including car, ATV and sport bike coolers. If not quite sure about one of those, you can do what I did and order a beat one off Ebay for little money to verify it will do what you want then buy a virgin for permanent install. I flush used oil system parts off the bike with acetone and direct the waste into a paper coffee strainer for observation.

Oil filters should be last in the return line before the oil reservoir so any pollution upstream is intercepted. If you frag an engine you can flush the cooler and other parts, but that filter remains as insurance.

I'm an aircraft mechanic but I don't run braided hose on my bikes. It requires special tools for roadside repair while quality hydraulic or fuel injection (Teflon lined) hose only requires a Leatherman. Whatever hose you use, route and clamp to avoid chafing. Military spec cushion clamps are cheap via Ebay as are small stainless screws and lock nuts to secure them.
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  #22  
Old 13th September 2018
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Nibelungen Nibelungen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farmall View Post
Cooling effectiveness is measurable, and position in feed or return is irrelevant to reducing fluid temperature. Temperature DROP between cooler inlet and outlet is what matters to the system.
With all due respect... isn't better that oil just cooled (on feed line) enters in the engine?
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  #23  
Old 14th September 2018
farmall farmall is offline
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Overall SYSTEM temp is relevant. Think carefully about what you just wrote. If the oil returning to the dry sump reservoir has its temp reduced X degrees it arrives cooled. It is also FORCED through the cooler passages under pressure rather than slowly flowing through them under gravity. That pressure ensures full utilization of those passages and RAPID flow through the cooler vs. slow gravity flow (and potential pump cavitation). The reservoir doesn't generate heat. It's a storage vessel and fluid "accumulator" whose volume compensates for surges in pump demand. It does shed some heat as anyone who brushes a bare leg against a hot oil tank can attest.

Oil filters aren't used on the feed/INLET side of the pump for similar reasons, mainly potential restriction but also because pumping swarf straight to the reservoir gives it the opportunity to sink to the bottom by the pickup. Blocked pickups are a bad thing.

You may compare flow by connecting a length of clear tubing to your oil cooler, plugging the outlet, then using a funnel or turkey baster to fill the tube and cooler. Unplug and let it gravity drain. Then do the same thing but with a compressed air blowgun connected to the tube. Hit the trigger and observe how fast the assembly empties.

Even given hypothetical identical efficiency rates for a cooler before and after the reservoir why precisely do you believe a cooler in the same system would cool "more" if placed between the feed side of the reservoir and pump then before the reservoir? There is no heat added to the system outside the engine.

Example Barnes dry sump racing system, proven for decades on high RPM engines in high G (drag racing, road racing) environments. Note component location. They could put what they want anywhere they want it, but they choose to put RESTRICTIVE components (filter, cooler) where a pump is PUSHING oil through them rather than relying on gravity and wishful thinking.

https://diagramchartwiki.com/dry-sum...-schematics-2/

Remember the "feed" (red) designation in the Sportster manual diagrams INCLUDES the PRESSURIZED flow from the pump, so the filter operates under pressure. The gravity feed TO the pump is not restricted. The filter location differs from Ironheads because of styling considerations. It was tidier to hang the filter where the old generator used to live.

It would be more accurate to refer to "feed", "pressure" and "scavenge/return".

http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1504548

Consider cooler location. Unless a gravity-fed cooler is mounted well below the reservoir and has no lines positioned to permit air pockets, drainback when sitting can create air pockets. That means interrupted flow on startup until the pocket is "burped" by the system.

Typical oil cooler adapters for canister filter engines (bike, car, truck) are plates sandwiched between an oil pressure source and filter. That pressure source on a Sporty is fed by the pump. It is not on the FEED SIDE AKA UNPRESSURIZED INLET of the pump. That pressure can "feed" the oil galleries as typical on auto engines with wet sump systems, but plumbing CONVENIENCE is a legit design consideration.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/08...76396845164265

Typical coolers and filters for non-canister filter (old Harleys with in-tank filters) and canister filter adapters for such engines (like the classic "Fram" external oil filter mounts used on choppers) are simply spliced inline with their pressure source, that being the return line to tank since feed from tank to pump is not under pressure. The net result is the same. (When those inline adapters are used on wet sump engines they are fed by sandwich adapters between filter and mount therefore they get pressurized oil.)

Coolers and filters require pressure so designers provide it. Overall system temp is a function of all system components.
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  #24  
Old 14th September 2018
Four Speed Four Speed is offline
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Quote:
Unless a gravity-fed cooler is mounted well below the reservoir and has no lines positioned to permit air pockets, drainback when sitting can create air pockets. That means interrupted flow on startup until the pocket is "burped" by the system
Good point!
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  #25  
Old 14th September 2018
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Nibelungen Nibelungen is offline
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Thanks for your time and for the little class... you know... i love mechanics bit i'm not a prof... so i lack of expertise and also concepts....
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  #26  
Old 14th September 2018
farmall farmall is offline
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Any time.

It's all about the joy of wrenching and these forums have given me much more than I've returned so far.
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  #27  
Old 1st October 2018
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The factory cooler and some others run from the pressure side. like so:
https://serviceinfo.harley-davidson....8?locale=en_US
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