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  #1  
Old 24th August 2015
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Question Twin tec 1005s Ignition Dumb dynamic timing Question

Sorry if similar post. If so please post a link if you could if another thread has already asked this.

Just got a Daytona Twin Tec 1005S-EX ignition cone module for my 2000 sporty. The ignition manual says if you "HAVE" a timing light with a "dial" "for dual fire", then to turn it dial to 0 (ZERO) then turn the cone ignition module till the 2 dot (20 degree indicator) on crank shaft shows 20 degrees BTDC shows up from timing light?

I have a nice craftsman digital timing light. plus and minus buttons to increase or decease the timing number.

Am i really supposed to set timing light at zero, then rotate ignition till the 20 degrees 2 dots show up in timing light???

Am I looking took deep into this, or should the timing light be set to 20 degrees BTDC be set on my timing light, then rotate ignition till the 2 dot 20 degree advance shows up?

Twin tech is closed or would call them, BUT, would like to hear others thoughts if their manual not correct, or if different for single fire, i'm using standard dual fire and want to make sure and get others thoughts if possible and any pros or cons.

I think i'm thinking too deep.

Thanks for any feedback!

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Old 24th August 2015
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A dial back light won't give the right answer on a dual-fire system. Set it to zero and use it as a standard light.
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That's not the same instruction sheet I read !
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Old 24th August 2015
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Someone will correct me if I'm wrong about this:
(Aaron - does the dual-fire spark throw off the calculation of the dial-back setting??)

(Re-Edit: additional info) Be sure to check your own service manual to verify the exact marks to be used and the suggested RPM for making the check... The pickup for your timing light should be on the front cylinder spark plug... The wasted spark flash should fall in a blank spot on the flywheel...

For '96 to '03, there are multiple timing marks - one is TDC (a vertical bar mark) - the other (two-dots) is the 20° BTDC mark... (on '95-earlier, the 20° mark is a single dot)

The standard timing light will use the 20° mark with the bike idling (at approx. 1000rpm) and the VOES in the advanced timing mode... The light will flash at the exact moment that the spark signal fires (if you set your dial back timing light to 0° it too will fire the light at the same time that the spark signal fires)...

If you want to use you're dial back feature to set your timing to something else, you'll need to look for the TDC mark based on your dial back setting... If you set 17° for advance, then adjust the pickup so the TDC mark shows up in the center of the timing window...

The dial back feature allows the timing light to trigger AFTER the actual spark signal was fired, in this case it would fire the light 17° after the spark plug fired, therefore, trying to make the light hit the TDC timing mark (since there is no timing mark for 17° advance)...

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Quote:
Originally Posted by aswracing View Post
A dial back light won't give the right answer on a dual-fire system. Set it to zero and use it as a standard light.
Thank you. Didn't know if was reading manual properly or if there was an error.

Sooo... set timing light to "zero", for the digital timing number. Start engine and warm up. Set idle to aprox 1200 RPMish per manual, then shine "Zero" set timing light into timing hole, and rotate cone ignition module until I see the 2 dots for the "20 degree BTDC" mark on the crank shaft? that simple?

I tend to think too deep into things, especially if is a simple procedure.

Is there a thread on here that can explain in detail why such a timing light should be set to "zero", when dynamic timing for "20 degrees BTDC" that anyone would know about? I would like to be educated and am always wanting to learn something new about details. Or is it as simple as how daytona twin etc designed it?

Much appreciated if there is either an external tech article link, or an existing thread that I missed.
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Look at the Daytona curves and see what they look like.
Stock Idle advance with the VOES connected is 20 degrees BTDC

My thinking is the dial back set to zero will hit the double dots at 20 and perhaps give a phantom flash every revolution because of the dual fire.

I believe if you dial back or forward whatever the case you should see the vertical line plus the phantom flash with no mark showing.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IXL2Relax View Post
Someone will correct me if I'm wrong about this:
(Aaron - does the dual-fire spark throw off the calculation of the dial-back setting??)
Yes. The timing light believes it's getting a firing every 720 crankshaft degrees, because that's how most motors work. But a dual fire Harley has firing intervals of 315 -405-315-405 degrees. So the timing light's calculation about how much delay to introduce between the firing and the strobe is all wrong.


Quote:
Originally Posted by groovemeisterus View Post
Is there a thread on here that can explain in detail why such a timing light should be set to "zero", when dynamic timing for "20 degrees BTDC" that anyone would know about? I would like to be educated and am always wanting to learn something new about details. Or is it as simple as how daytona twin etc designed it?
Relax's explanation is right on the money. When using the dial back feature, a delay is introduced between the firing and the strobe, the idea being to use the TDC mark instead of an advance mark. But if you're going to use an advance mark on the flywheel, you don't want that delay. So set the dial at 0.

My point was simply that the delay introduced by the timing light is going to be wrong, unless you're single fire and therefore have 720 degree firing intervals. The timing light is made for 720 degree firing intervals.
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Thanks everyone for your feedback! I have been schooled and learned something new!

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Aaron

Is an inductive timing light not triggered by the secondary discharge down the plug wire ?
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My Craftsman Digital Timing Light (14066) has a 2/4 cycle button - the manual says to use the 2 cycle mode for DIS with wasted spark (DIS=Distributorless Ignition System) - So it must internally calculate how to ignore the extra firing signals...

It looks like Actron makes that equivalent model in a plastic case (Sears even sells it online) - I think the Actron CP7529 is the equivalent (See Actron model here: https://actron.com/sites/default/files/hr_pdf_16313.pdf - OpManual here: https://actron.com/sites/default/fil...lish_16313.pdf)

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