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Sportster Motorcycle Engine Conversions Advice, questions, and tips for 1200, 1250, 1340, 1450 etc... for Sportster and Buell motorcycle engine conversions

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  #871  
Old 1st April 2016
A 4 liter V8 eater's Avatar
A 4 liter V8 eater A 4 liter V8 eater is offline
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Sportster/Buell Model: 883 Flat Track Racer
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Sportster/Buell Model #2: RIP 1200S
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Ok, so the latest is:

I replaced the Tappet with a factory one and replaced the lifter block with a new one. I also tried to spray a bunch of carb cleaner down into the oil passage that feeds the front intake lifter. After I put the top end back together I decided to leave the spark plugs out and crank the engine with the starter to see if the lifter would now pump up. Well after probably 7 minutes of cranking in 30 sec bursts there was still no pressure. The starter sounded different (as in not good) now too.

After talking to some folks that know better than, I was told it could take forever that way and its best to just actually start the engine to get the lifter to pump up. So with that advice I finished putting the bike back together. When I went to start it the magic smoke was released from the starter and I noticed the lithium battery was hot (yikes!). I quickly undid the lithium battery and threw it out in the snow. So now I had more to fix. The next day I ordered a starter and a 480 CCA battery.

The starter I ordered was the Compufire Gen II 2.0 kW starter. I searched the internet far and wide and could not find any review of one on a Sportster so I decided to be the guinea pig. The starter is different in that it uses a permanent magnet motor whatever that means. All I know is that all other sportster starters use either a 1.2 or 1.4 kW Toshiba motor and have the same gear reducer. This starter not only had the 2.0 kW motor, but also used a planetary reducer. The starter looks very well made and it weighs more than a 1 lb. less than the 1.4 kW I took off.

So that weekend I tore into the primary to replace the starter. When I got the cover off I noticed that one of the teeth on the starter ring gear was chipped. The clutch basket I was running was an Evolution Industries aluminum clutch basket which luckily has a replaceable starter ring. Unfortunately this meant I had to remove the crank and clutch nuts to replace the ring. This noisy lifter problem has turned into a giant PITA at this point. Well I ordered the ring gear, did more waiting for the mail, and then installed it. On a side note, I called evolution to ask what steel the ring was because I was thinking of tempering it. The guy assured me that the starter rings were thoroughly hardened and tempered already.

When I got the primary back together it was finally time to see if the new lifter and block fixed the noise. I started the bike and the noise slowly went away. BTW, each time I started the bike the starter sounded terrible. After running the bike about five times it would not start anymore. There would just be the sound of the starter spinning. I figured it was the starter and initiated a warranty claim to have it fixed. When I took the primary back apart I learned that it was actually the replacement ring gear that went bad. About 30% of the teeth were missing or damaged. I guess 2.0 kW is too much for the Evolution Ind. "hardened and tempered" starter ring. So I took the primary drive back apart and swapped all the clutch stuff back over to the stock clutch basket. I had a Riviera Primo +25% clutch spring sitting on the shelf and decide to put that in place of the +25% Energy One spring I had in there. The only reason for this was I like the zinc plating on it better.

So I put everything back together and started the bike back up. BTW, the stock clutch basket had no problem handling the 2.0 kW starter. Now I was finally able to appreciate the 480 CCA battery and 2.0kW starter combo. The starter now sounds like a stock sportster, no starter struggle. I took the bike for a ride to the gas station to fill up. The first thing that became very clear was that calling this Riviera Primo clutch spring a +25% is false advertising. It felt like +2500%. It was retardedly stiff. I was thinking "this thing must be a joke right? because it’s funny how stiff it is". The clutch spring also didn't have that typical diaphragm spring "nose over" where it was a little easier when the clutch was pulled all the way in, it just got harder the more you pulled it in

I decided to suck it up and ride the bike, novelty prank clutch spring and all to work one day. It was great, but it became clear how a cartoonishly stiff clutch spring negatively affects your riding. You dread shifting, and when you do shift you try and do it so quick sometimes you don't go into gear. You are so focused on the effort to hold the clutch lever in that you don't even notice what your foot is doing with the shifter. Well with this insight I decided to not only go back to the 1000% better energy one +25% spring, but also see what I could do to make the clutch pull even easier.

On my commute back home the lifter started causing a racket again. Well here we go again. Now I'm thinking it must be oil pressure. This weekend, I'll be trying to do what I can to increase the oil pressure. I will probably finally install that Zippers ProFlow oil pump I've had sitting on the shelf. I picked up an S&S oil filter mount locally yesterday. This mount is different than the factory 4-speed style mount I currently have in that it has no oil pressure bleed back to the cam chest. One of my theories is that this oil pressure relief is hanging open at times. I think that might explain the intermittantness of the lifter noise. I'm also going to try out 20W-60 redline. The thinking is that the noise seems to occur more often when the motor is hot and the oil is thin.

As for the clutch I’ve scrounged up some components for a Magura hydraulic setup. I got a complete NOS 80” hydraulic clutch , a gen II style slave cylinder which addresses some issue with the original Magura slave, and a 53” stainless braided hydraulic hose.

I'll try to upload some pics of the starter, clutch, and oiling mods.
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Last edited by A 4 liter V8 eater; 1st April 2016 at 16:52..
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  #872  
Old 1st April 2016
Jörgen Jörgen is offline
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Is ticking noise also present when the engine is warming up?
In my experience, these S&S-cases has the gear lash on the loose side. So they often produce a hot engine ticking noise from the gears.

But it's easy to hook up a gauge and verify oil pressure. On my bike I have a permanently mounted oil pressure gauge.
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  #873  
Old 1st April 2016
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I've thought about getting this:

http://www.jpcycles.com/product/570-100

Its not really a ticking sound, its more like a ball pean hammer tapping the engine sound. Like I said it comes and goes, but there are times its more likey. One is sitting at a traffic light while hot and the other right at startup. It makes me think the relief is stuck open at a position it was at at a higher RPM.
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  #874  
Old 1st April 2016
Tom Beckner Tom Beckner is offline
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Default Oil Pressure Gauge

If you feel like driving out to Leesburg to pick it up, you can take my oil pressure
gauge and use it until you get the problem squared away.

It's the Arlen Ness deal with bracket, hose, etc., for 2002 model XL.

Send me a PM and I'll give you my phone number later this evening.

Tom Beckner
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  #875  
Old 1st April 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Beckner View Post
If you feel like driving out to Leesburg to pick it up, you can take my oil pressure
gauge and use it until you get the problem squared away.

It's the Arlen Ness deal with bracket, hose, etc., for 2002 model XL.

Send me a PM and I'll give you my phone number later this evening.

Tom Beckner
How far are you from here?:

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  #876  
Old 1st April 2016
Tom Beckner Tom Beckner is offline
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20 minutes, off 15 South. Give me a call, check your PM.
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  #877  
Old 1st April 2016
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Join Date: Apr 2005
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Sportster/Buell Year: 2002
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This is what the S&S oil filter mount looks like:



As evidenced by this photo from the installation instructions there is no pressure relief back to the cam chest:



As for shifting, here is an overview of the Magura hydraulic clutch:



This slave cylinder mounts to the derby cover right where the cable normally does. This design retains the ball & ramp device.

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  #878  
Old 2nd April 2016
Jörgen Jörgen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A 4 liter V8 eater View Post
I've thought about getting this:

http://www.jpcycles.com/product/570-100

Its not really a ticking sound, its more like a ball pean hammer tapping the engine sound. Like I said it comes and goes, but there are times its more likey. One is sitting at a traffic light while hot and the other right at startup. It makes me think the relief is stuck open at a position it was at at a higher RPM.
Ok. Ball peen hammer sound. That doesnt sound like gear lash.

Just brain storming:
Could be lifter roller bearings beginning to break down. Valve mechanism hitting valve covers. Piston to valve. Push rod rubbing against tubes.

When building engines with lots of aftermarket part. There is an increased demand of checking evrything. Clearances and so on.
For example, the Baker 6-speed retaining bolt often needs to be countersunk if being used together with some aftermarket clutch shells.

If you are using limited travel lifters, its easy to exclude "lifter not pumping up". Just adjust them with zero lash with cold engine.

But checking oil pressure would be top of my check list. Since that can damage a lot of parts in the engine.
Also verify the cam cover gasket for correct fitment. That the oil path isnt blocked by a faulty gasket.
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  #879  
Old 4th April 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jörgen View Post
Ok. Ball peen hammer sound. That doesnt sound like gear lash.

Just brain storming:
Could be lifter roller bearings beginning to break down. Valve mechanism hitting valve covers. Piston to valve. Push rod rubbing against tubes.

When building engines with lots of aftermarket part. There is an increased demand of checking evrything. Clearances and so on.
For example, the Baker 6-speed retaining bolt often needs to be countersunk if being used together with some aftermarket clutch shells.

If you are using limited travel lifters, its easy to exclude "lifter not pumping up". Just adjust them with zero lash with cold engine.

But checking oil pressure would be top of my check list. Since that can damage a lot of parts in the engine.
Also verify the cam cover gasket for correct fitment. That the oil path isnt blocked by a faulty gasket.
I've already checked out all of the above except oil pressure. I know the front intake lifter is not properly pumping up. I've already replaced the lifter and there is still the same issue. My big concern would be that I find the oil pressure to be fine. That would mean the issue is probably inadequate supply to that one lifter block. If deleting the pressure relief and possibly throwing the new oil pump on does not fix it then I'm just going hydrosolid on the valve.
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  #880  
Old 4th April 2016
Jörgen Jörgen is offline
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Ok!
A bit late now, but when assembling a sportster engine, before I mount the pistons, I hook up the feed line and gently spin the crank with my hands holding each rod. I do this until I see oil protruding through each lifter and the crank bearing. Its a good way to verify that the whole lower end oiling is working.
You will sort this out, just be patient and methodical.
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