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Sportster Motorcycle Engine Conversions Advice, questions, and tips for 1200, 1250, 1340, 1450 etc... for Sportster and Buell motorcycle engine conversions

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  #881  
Old 4th April 2016
A 4 liter V8 eater's Avatar
A 4 liter V8 eater A 4 liter V8 eater is offline
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Thanks. The intermittency of it has me really thinking it could be the relief so I'm going to try that alone first. Then the pump. Is there a diagram of the oil passages in the S&S crankcase (or similar, 86-90)?

You had me really thinking when you mentioned the cam gasket. I used the gasket that cam with the S&S cases and my cam cover is the S&S billet 5-speed cover. The part number I had written down for the cover when I bought it was 31-0323 which had me worried. I think that must be a typo for 31-0302.


Oh, by the way, I installed the Magura hydraulic clutch setup and I can now pull in the clutch lever with one finger. Night and day difference
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Link to thread on "Harley Racing" events across the country: http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=53470

These events include Hillclimbing, Flat Track Racing, Ice racing, Drag Racing, etc.. They are all sports dominated by Harley Davidsons. They are always located in scenic areas and are great weekend rides. The above link allows XLforum users to coordinate riding to these events together.
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  #882  
Old 4th April 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A 4 liter V8 eater View Post
Thanks. The intermittency of it has me really thinking it could be the relief so I'm going to try that alone first. Then the pump. Is there a diagram of the oil passages in the S&S crankcase (or similar, 86-90)?

You had me really thinking when you mentioned the cam gasket. I used the gasket that cam with the S&S cases and my cam cover is the S&S billet 5-speed cover. The part number I had written down for the cover when I bought it was 31-0323 which had me worried. I think that must be a typo for 31-0302.


Oh, by the way, I installed the Magura hydraulic clutch setup and I can now pull in the clutch lever with one finger. Night and day difference
The relief valve is a pretty simple and reliable plunger/spring design. It's easy to inspect that the parts are free from dents, burrs or foreign objects that might cause it to malfunction. It's also easy to hook it up to a T-coupling with a gauge and test the relief pressure with compressed air. I think that I have shown that in my build thread.

Best way for you to understand the oil path is to dismount the cam cover and follow the oil holes to understand the oil path. Hereby you will also understand which holes in the gasket surface that must carry oil through and which holes that are dead ends and blocked off. It's educational and the best way to understand. By doing this you can also check that the oil gallery is free from debris, for example that compressed air reaches through to each lifter block.
It's not uncommon that people block off the oil feed by using wrong or misaligned gaskets. It wasnt that long ago that another member here did just that. http://xlforum.net/forums/s...74#post5313974

I would need pics to assist you. I think that you can do it by yourself.

Good to hear that the clutch effort got lowered. I agree that a too stiff clutch handle really brings down the joy of a powerful bike.
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  #883  
Old 5th April 2016
A 4 liter V8 eater's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jörgen View Post
The relief valve is a pretty simple and reliable plunger/spring design. It's easy to inspect that the parts are free from dents, burrs or foreign objects that might cause it to malfunction. It's also easy to hook it up to a T-coupling with a gauge and test the relief pressure with compressed air. I think that I have shown that in my build thread.

Best way for you to understand the oil path is to dismount the cam cover and follow the oil holes to understand the oil path. Hereby you will also understand which holes in the gasket surface that must carry oil through and which holes that are dead ends and blocked off. It's educational and the best way to understand. By doing this you can also check that the oil gallery is free from debris, for example that compressed air reaches through to each lifter block.
It's not uncommon that people block off the oil feed by using wrong or misaligned gaskets. It wasnt that long ago that another member here did just that. http://xlforum.net/forums/s...74#post5313974

I would need pics to assist you. I think that you can do it by yourself.

Good to hear that the clutch effort got lowered. I agree that a too stiff clutch handle really brings down the joy of a powerful bike.
You've really got me thinking. I've sent the following email to S&S:

Quote:
"I've replaced both the lifter and lifter block and still the front intake lifter will not pump up. There is no oil diagram for the 5-speed cam style S&S cases that I could find, but I've been told it could have to do with the cam cover or cover gasket. The cam cover I have is an old S&S 31-0323 and the gasket is one that came with the S&S cases. I see 31-0323 is no longer offered, only 31-0302 for the 5 speed cams.

The following warnings in the S&S case instructions have me concerned:

"-1991-'03 cams require 1991-'03 style cover, #25219-91A. S&S gasket 31-2052 must be used with 1991-'03 style cover. See following Caution concerning late 5-speed cover H-D® part #25219-91B. S&S offers various styles of gear covers for the different year groups. NOTE: S&S crankcases are compatible with some early Sportster® model gearcase covers. Late model covers have different oil passage locations.

Use of 25219-91B cover or incorrect cover gasket on S&S crankcase will cause oil starvation and extensive engine damage not covered under warranty. See Picture 1 next page. This style cover is not available from H-DR. S&S offers billet covers for both 1986-'90 and 1991-'03 style cams."


Is it maybe that 31-0302 is a replacement for factory part 25219-91A and 31-0323 was a replacement for factory part 25219-91B? Or are 31-0302 and the old 31-0323 completely interchangeable? Why the part number change?"
Last night I installed the S&S oil filter mount. I was able to blow through the hole on the back of the factory oil filter mount shown in the pic below without any restriction I would think off the bike with no pressure the relief valve should be closed and I should not be able to blow through this relief drain. Is this right?



Here are two pics of the S&S mount:





I let the bike idle for a few minutes after installing the mount. I think it sounded better but not completely gone. I would really like to hear back from S&S on my cam cover part no. mystery.

As for the clutch. This is what the slave looks like:



and the pic below is me pulling it in with one finger. Keep in mind I have a +25% energy one spring in there. Unlike the horrifying riviera primo +infinity spring, the energy one noses over after about 85% pulled in.



As promised earlier here is a picture of that compufire starter:


Last edited by A 4 liter V8 eater; 5th April 2016 at 18:24..
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  #884  
Old 6th April 2016
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I haven't heard back from S&S yet, but earlier, prior to the email, I called and it was confirmed to me that at one point 31-0323 was also an XL cam cover, but it was was not determined whether or not it was compatible with the super stock cases. That's what prompted the email which was sent to somebody at S&S that might have more insight.

So in lieu of a response from S&S, tonight I decided to perform an autopsy on the Harley oil filter mount that I took off. Like I said, last night I was able to blow air right through the relief drain. When I took it apart and shook out the relief "piston looking" valve I found that hanging through one of the four ports was a chunk of metal. I am 80% confident this chunk must have come off the former pre-91 bike I bought this part off of. I shook out the metal chunk, reassembled the pressure relief mechanism, then performed that same test, blowing through the drain.

There was no leakage this time. That made me feel a little bit more confident I found the culprit. I started and idled the bike 2 more times and the second time all the lifter noise was gone. I still want to hear back from S&S, because I vaguely recall holding the gasket up to both the case and the cover and on one of those the hole in the gasket was not very well centered on the hole in the aluminum.
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  #885  
Old 12th April 2016
Turbo Sporty 48 Turbo Sporty 48 is offline
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Thanks for sharing your adventure.
Great tips and thoughtful diagnoses.
Best of luck.
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  #886  
Old 26th June 2016
A 4 liter V8 eater's Avatar
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V5iCeEinOFI
First test of my fathers day gift (a GoPro).
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  #887  
Old 26th June 2016
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Som-beach son, you are riding the devil!
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  #888  
Old 29th June 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scooby View Post
Som-beach son, you are riding the devil!
Yeah, its been running great now that all the little issues have been ironed out (knock on wood).
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  #889  
Old 29th June 2016
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Sounded Real strong!!!
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  #890  
Old 20th October 2016
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Somebody had posted this picture of me at a hooligan flat track event on FB. I thought it was a good pic to share here:

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