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  #1  
Old 28th February 2012
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Default trans access door alignment

trans door 'alignment' explained.

this thread applies to 57-76 cases.

it most likely accurate for 77 to early 84. because i feel the manufacturing procedure is the same as 76<. i cant prove it but i belive it.

here goes:
if you fit any door other than the one that came with bike from the factory you will usually will find the some kind of misalignment between the 4 case to door bolt holes that you didnt have before. (if you dont have bolt alignment issues it probly because the holes in the 'new' door are larger than the holes in the orig door. nos factory replacement doors were like this)

that gets you thinking about 'matched' components and the possibilty that your 'not matched' any more. the normal responce to this to gather info on how to regain the 'match' with your new part set. so you logicly turn to the ever-present hd line-ream & line-lap as the remidy to your problem. and line-ream/lap is the right way realign out of alignment bearing elements in order to get them back into reliable service.

the above paragraph makes the assumption that the bolt hole misalignment will be carried onto other, more critical, alignments. anyone who is serious about these bikes wont dismiss this misalignment. at least with out a good reason. thats a solid point of view. and nessacary for refining your ride.

wantin to grab on to something we can sink our teeth into, each of us will tend to embrace the theory that seems most sensible.

unfortunitly, concerning old info, good solid reasons are rare. lost to time. and because of that, conjecture rules. after awhile the 'legend becomes fact'.

food for thought. mached cases. they definitly are machined as a set at the factory. yet hd would sell you either half or a door as a seperate 'replacement' part. no special instructions on how to 'match' to your existing mate. why?

in this post ill try to explain why.
also i really hope this post will show that our bikes werent built using the procedures in the SERVICE manual. that point, when not taken into account, fosters alot of misinformation.

they were built using a different, much more imformative set of instructions. blueprints.

an informed understanding of how the factory builds these bikes helps seperate the cream from the crap in your assesment of "is this a synptom of a deeper problem" versus "its like this because of how they were made".

so the 1st two things you need to know are these two facts.
1) the very first ancestors of our bikes, the 52-53 k, didnt use any trans door at all. this is important so you can understand how the raw castings were machined into a set of cases. the overall machine procedure on the 52-53 is the same as on the 57-76.

in this post im gonna leave out the 54-56. these were the 1st bikes with a door. these doors were removable but werent manufactured to be interchangable. due to the double tapered cone dowels they used. this is whole thread in itself thats not applicable to ohv bikes.

for 57-76 the door gets bolted to left case early on in the manufacturing procedure so it mimics the 52-53 no door cases. the door/left case assm turns into a one piece artifact as far as the rest of the machining is concerned. its this bolting on procedure that shows up as misalignment when swaping doors/cases.

(fyi in 52-53 in order to work on trans you had to split the cases. and when puttin cases together you needed to have the entire trans and shift tower shimed and assm'd to left case as well as the flywheel assm)

fact 2
2) if you bought a new set of replacement cases, when they were available, you got way more than 2 case halfs. again because of how they were made. you got in addition to the cases:
a) a door bolted to cases. (when you unbolt the door its the 1st time its first time its been loosened. ever).
b) gen idler bush installed pinned and bored to locatoin and size in right case.
c) shifter shaft bush installed in right case half.
d) kicker bush installed in left case. even if its not gonna be used (68-76 xlh)
e) a few case bolts. the ones hd used to bolt the case halfs together well enuff to machine the cyl base surfs, holes for cyl spicket, and drill and tap the cyl stud holes.
f) dowel pins installed. how many and where depending on year. case part seam 3 or 2. cam cover 2 or 1. kicker cover 2. if hump case 1 for primary cover. most importantly though 2 for the ever-present pre installed trans door.
g) shift fork shaft hole in right case pluged with expansion plug.

at this point, if cases sets are to be sold as replacement parts, they are done. "ready for you to use".
on the flip side if the case set is going to be used for a new motor, more work gets done before they will be considered "ready for use". left side gets kicker stop, transfer valve, and 7 studs (3 rear motor mt 4 cyl studs) installed. if hump motor gets pri drain plug installed.
right side gets cyl studs, cam case strainer screen/gasket/pin, oil line fittings, chain oiler fitting if hump motor, motor and trans drain plugs (except 70 and e71), cam torringtons, c shaft torrington, shifter seal,right rear top motor mt stud on some years(67-72?) hump motors. 900's get 5 oil pump studs.
and for in house right side gets two more things.

its here that this thread really starts.
installed and fitted. pinion race and main shaft race.
common belief is that these get line laped as fsm. not so. they get rigid honed. whithout the case halfs being assm'd
this kind of independant fit and finishing is NOT what the fsm prescribes.

it is what you would evolve to if you if you built motors night and day for 1/2 century. and you would get so good at hitting size, location and finish that every build used the exact same roller size. the "standard" size. pinion, trans mainshaft, con rod big end. and you figured out how to do it without the cumbersome assm-lap-clean-check-repeat routine. you got so good you do it without the trail and error.

so (other than for cyl interface) what i belive really happened in the factory the day your motor was built is that both case halfs get machined independintly to such tight and repeatable tolerances that any right will fit to any left. two random halfs got put together. all machine work is done except for the cyl interface.

then when together, the cyl interface got machined, as a set. thats when the set got a belly #. that number allowed you to backtrack sequencaly if a prob gets identified. as well track numurious other parameters.

if your still with me-back to the trans door.
remember 52/53 had no door. lets start there.
you got 2 raw castings from the foundry- a right and a left case half. totally unmachined. you need to hold each raw casting somehow in order to get 1st machining step completed. this 1st hold needs to position casting accuratly enuff that all other machining is on target. this is no small issue. all subsequent work will be based on this 1st operation. after a time you get this 1st op down solid. in the instance of the left k model case you machine one 'side' than flip casting over, register off the 1st side machining, and machine the opposite (2nd) side.

there are a few machine operations that get carried out afterwards that arent 'face on' to the parting or the parallel primary side.
rear motor mount top mount holes. tool box stud hole. timken feed and drain holes.
same for right side. all though the amount of secondary 'off flat' machine work is much more extensive.

at this point all the trans machine work is complete. if you didnt do it on the 1st operation, you did it on the 2nd. on both case halfs. before they ever were bolted together as a matched set.

now add a removable trans door. a 3rd casting.
how?
you pre machine the case for door mounting and mount the door to case so this assm is a mimic of the no door earlier one pc case half. this get done before any trans bearing bores gets done.

you machine a mounting surface into the door casting. then you put a 4 bolt hole pattern in door casting. the hole pattern is regisitered to the outer profile of door casting. the hole pattern needs to be regisitered to casting outer profile because soon you will put same bolt partern in case. and mill a mating mount surf with boundries consistant to that common pattern into left case half. so door fits in ur case pocket with no interfearence. what locates door to its case pocket is the 4 bolts (the dowels dont exist yet).

now your case-door assm mimics the earlier no door k left case half. and you can apply the same tryed and true machining operations.
those machine operations do the main and counter bearing bores,. these door bores are located based on the dowel locations at case seam.
the holes for door dowels are done now too. this makes the relationship of door dowels to trans bearing bores location constistant.

but the relitive position of the 4 bolt holes to the dowels is not constant due to all the positioning variances that come into play when the door is first attached to case half.

so the misalignment of the bolts is not indictive of misalignment of the trans bearing bores.

i doubt that this post is as clear as it should be.
so as allways-- questions, comments, and get the hell out of heres' are welcome.
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  #2  
Old 28th February 2012
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Awesome info!!
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  #3  
Old 28th February 2012
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thanks for that DR.DICK,im sure i,didnt absorb it all,on the first read,but ill read it again tomorrow,morning.for sure.
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Old 29th February 2012
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[QUOTE=DR DICK;3808644]trans door 'alignment' explained.

(if you dont have bolt alignment issues it probly because the holes in the 'new' door are larger than the holes in the orig door. nos factory replacement doors were like this
so the misalignment of the bolts is not indictive of misalignment of the trans bearing bores.
it sounds like the factory was expecting this mismatch. how signifigant is the observation that eric freeman,and i,both had that the mainshaft was not dead centered in the bearing race with no rollers installed,using the vulcan engineering trap door?
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Old 29th February 2012
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does it mean: I have to care only for the dowel pin alignment?
The question is: what to do if these dowel pins doesnt fit?

Last time I just "shaked" the door into a position all shafts and gears centered and turning as free as possible, then bolted the door tight and made 2 new larger dowel pin holes with 2 new oversize dowel pins. Did work well so far....

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
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Old 29th February 2012
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These dowels are drilled and threaded for extra support.
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tanks for sharing that fdny37.thats a,great idea strocieck,had improving on what the factory,already provided
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Quote:
Originally Posted by German61xlch View Post
does it mean: I have to care only for the dowel pin alignment?
The question is: what to do if these dowel pins doesnt fit?

Last time I just "shaked" the door into a position all shafts and gears centered and turning as free as possible, then bolted the door tight and made 2 new larger dowel pin holes with 2 new oversize dowel pins. Did work well so far....

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
That's pretty much what I explained here:
http://xlforum.net/forums/s....php?t=1381373

Unless you had some dummy jig shafts and slip fit bushings to use instead of the actual trans shafts and bearings, I don't see a better way.

Your project is looking sweet German61xlch, by the way.
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Forum is saved for sure,A good bit of info right here. Thanks for posting.
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[quote=brucstoudt;3810594]
Quote:
Originally Posted by DR DICK View Post
trans door 'alignment' explained.

(if you dont have bolt alignment issues it probly because the holes in the 'new' door are larger than the holes in the orig door. nos factory replacement doors were like this
so the misalignment of the bolts is not indictive of misalignment of the trans bearing bores.
it sounds like the factory was expecting this mismatch. how signifigant is the observation that eric freeman,and i,both had that the mainshaft was not dead centered in the bearing race with no rollers installed,using the vulcan engineering trap door?
he sent me the door. hoping to get to checkin critical locations some time soon. will post results.
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