The Sportster and Buell Motorcycle Forum - The XLFORUM®
 

Go Back   The Sportster and Buell Motorcycle Forum - The XLFORUM® > SPORTSTER MOTORCYCLE FORUM > Sportster Motorcycle Motor / Engine > Sportster Motorcycle - Bottom End
XLF Blogs XLF Arcade XLF Disclaimer/Privacy Statement/Terms Of Use

Notices

Sportster Motorcycle - Bottom End Cams, Cases, Gears, Flywheel, Piston Conecting Rods, Oil Pump, etc...

Active Threads
0 Hottie of the day, no nudity.
Last Post: Stairman
Posted On: 1 Minute Ago
Replies: 31,616
Views: 3,633,737
0 Aluminum patina
Last Post: IronMick
Posted On: 23 Minutes Ago
Replies: 16
Views: 507
0 A new sourkraut in the house
Last Post: Stairman
Posted On: 24 Minutes Ago
Replies: 2
Views: 29
6 Static Timing: Identifying Wide/Small Cam Lobes
Last Post: 73HEAD
Posted On: 58 Minutes Ago
Replies: 36
Views: 4,019
0 Where To Get Free Air
Last Post: rejeanprimeau
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 44
Views: 1,556
0 Help & advice needed
Last Post: Andy Hog
Posted On: 1 Hour Ago
Replies: 25
Views: 1,185
0 Hammer 1275 oil leak riddle
Last Post: Lukidj
Posted On: 3 Hours Ago
Replies: 30
Views: 2,886
0 KT - 2021 - You're In It Now
Last Post: IXL2Relax
Posted On: 3 Hours Ago
Replies: 56
Views: 10,163
0 What have I gotten myself into?
Last Post: juzyHD
Posted On: 5 Hours Ago
Replies: 8
Views: 192
0 Piston melted
Last Post: kusaj
Posted On: 6 Hours Ago
Replies: 54
Views: 2,004
0 Iree's late night cafe
Last Post: ~Grind~
Posted On: 6 Hours Ago
Replies: 2,096
Views: 340,406
0 Dragging clutch
Last Post: doodah man
Posted On: 6 Hours Ago
Replies: 6
Views: 164
0 Happy Birthday Shanneba!!!
Last Post: Bow only
Posted On: 6 Hours Ago
Replies: 8
Views: 188
0 teflon buttons or circlips?
Last Post: Ferrous Head
Posted On: 7 Hours Ago
Replies: 40
Views: 2,035
0 Headers Exhaust Sportster 1988/2005 does it fit
Last Post: Stojan85
Posted On: 7 Hours Ago
Replies: 0
Views: 42
0 Shovster build take2
Last Post: billeuze
Posted On: 8 Hours Ago
Replies: 255
Views: 29,287
0 05 1200R cylinder oil leak and clacking
Last Post: Hippysmack
Posted On: 8 Hours Ago
Replies: 77
Views: 4,658
0 Happy Birthday Crusty and Joes95bobber!
Last Post: sportsterpaul
Posted On: 8 Hours Ago
Replies: 19
Views: 653
0 Intake Seals
Last Post: Randy_rots
Posted On: 9 Hours Ago
Replies: 10
Views: 315
0 Keep & Kill
Last Post: Crusty
Posted On: 9 Hours Ago
Replies: 24,157
Views: 1,424,473
0 Official XL Forum Random Image Thread (NO NUDITY!)
Last Post: Graywolf
Posted On: 9 Hours Ago
Replies: 51,739
Views: 8,689,462
0 Easy start cam choice
Last Post: mjt754
Posted On: 11 Hours Ago
Replies: 108
Views: 3,452
0 This week on Craig's list
Last Post: Ferrous Head
Posted On: 11 Hours Ago
Replies: 5,350
Views: 862,333
0 Roads I'd like to ride.
Last Post: shanneba
Posted On: 12 Hours Ago
Replies: 3,606
Views: 404,830
0 40 Years
Last Post: BKB
Posted On: 12 Hours Ago
Replies: 9
Views: 204
0 Allegheny National Park
Last Post: BKB
Posted On: 12 Hours Ago
Replies: 79
Views: 7,770
0 Best Moto Sticker Ever
Last Post: rokytnji
Posted On: 12 Hours Ago
Replies: 7
Views: 287
0 Sportster S models being delivered to dealers
Last Post: rokytnji
Posted On: 13 Hours Ago
Replies: 8
Views: 362
0 Which Battery?
Last Post: Tomcatt
Posted On: 13 Hours Ago
Replies: 92
Views: 28,070
0 900 sportster big valve heads
Last Post: brucstoudt
Posted On: 13 Hours Ago
Replies: 7
Views: 155
More...
Members Birthdays
Reply
 
Share Thread Tools Display Modes
  #781  
Old 28th October 2019
Hippysmack's Avatar
Hippysmack Hippysmack is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 7,983
Sportster/Buell Model: Xl1250S
Sportster/Buell Year: 98
Other Motorcycle Model: Kawasaki Vulcan 500
Other Motorcycle Year: 95
Reputation: 7823783
Hippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomcatt View Post
Is this supposed to "prove" something?
No I'm not trying to prove anything.
I'm just playing around with my new tool.
bustert's testing interested me enough that I wanted to try it myself.
I'm just trying to see what I can learn and I realize it's just one of many tools.
You normally have more vacuum than positive pressure.

As I mentioned earlier,
Even though there is a positive 'push' on internal pressure through piston downstroke, the overall internal pressure is still negative.
It's just less negative than it was before the downstroke. This creates a pulsing effect on oil in the sump which helps shift the oil toward the scavenge port.
Even though there is normal blowby throughout the RPM range, the vacuum created buffers that.


But it's the positive push that creates the pulsing air (constant differential) that helps move oil and air around in the crankcase.

It's OK to have vacuum as long as it's not too high.
The higher the vacuum, the less differential that takes place inside therefore the less pulsing pressure to move things around.

I had to build this homemade rig since I don't have money for a used Dwyer not to mention a pressure sensor and data logging capabilities.
But I think I can learn something from it.
So it's a win-win for me.

Vacuum deters high oil suspension. In other words the air/oil mix that gets pushed around will be less dense.
If the pulsating air is great enough on downstroke (even though the mean pressure is still negative) , the oil in the sump is kept in the rear to be scavenged.
But vacuum can also lower the pulsations if it creeps too high.

So my degree of vacuum wasn't high enough to hinder scavenging.
__________________
Diagnosis begins before teardown, during and after rebuild.

In Search of Fuel, Sunshine and a Steady Idle.

Reference the XLFORUM'S Sportsterpedia
for additional technical information & advice
Reply With Quote
  #782  
Old 28th October 2019
Tomcatt Tomcatt is offline
Dazed & Confused
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Never Never Land
Posts: 2,418
Sportster/Buell Model: XL1200C
Sportster/Buell Year: 2017
Other Motorcycle Model: BMW R9T
Other Motorcycle Year: 2015
Reputation: 3024668
Tomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Thanks for reminding me to say nothing and just pop more popcorn
__________________
2017 XL1200C in SE Wisconsin, USA
Reply With Quote
  #783  
Old 28th October 2019
Hippysmack's Avatar
Hippysmack Hippysmack is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 7,983
Sportster/Buell Model: Xl1250S
Sportster/Buell Year: 98
Other Motorcycle Model: Kawasaki Vulcan 500
Other Motorcycle Year: 95
Reputation: 7823783
Hippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond repute
Default



I saw that the green from bustert's pics shows up best so that's what I got.
It's difficult to get the water level exactly on a line so here is where I started.


1000 RPM:


I lost 3-3/4" of water by taking the oil cap off at idle (1000 RPM).
Since it went and died and idled below 1000 when I fired it back up, I held the throttle at 1000 to get this reading.


2000 RPM:


3000 RPM:


4000 RPM:


5000 RPM:


I have something happening at 5500 sitting still as the pipes sound like they are spitting around then or maybe breaking up some.
I was running between 5000 and 6500 earlier with a load and no problems.
So this may be some of the differences you mentioned regarding load vs no load, Tomcatt?

Last edited by Hippysmack; 18th December 2019 at 00:24.. Reason: moved pics to Sportsterpedia, Deleted non productive rantings...
Reply With Quote
  #784  
Old 29th October 2019
Tomcatt Tomcatt is offline
Dazed & Confused
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Never Never Land
Posts: 2,418
Sportster/Buell Model: XL1200C
Sportster/Buell Year: 2017
Other Motorcycle Model: BMW R9T
Other Motorcycle Year: 2015
Reputation: 3024668
Tomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hippysmack View Post
I was running between 5000 and 6500 earlier with a load and no problems.
So this may be some of the differences you mentioned regarding load vs no load, Tomcatt?
Cold vs hot engine? Your tuning, at small throttle opening, low MAP, high revs, likes a cold engine better? It's an odd area to be running in. Are you running an ignition that lets you run ignition timing vs MAP and RPM? It may need a little tweaking.

Did I misread or misunderstand? "I was running between 5000 and 6500 earlier with a load and no problems." I was thinking this session was with a hot engine (and food coloring) vs the previous cold engine test? You were running under load with your manometer connected?

Last edited by Tomcatt; 29th October 2019 at 00:36..
Reply With Quote
  #785  
Old 29th October 2019
Hippysmack's Avatar
Hippysmack Hippysmack is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 7,983
Sportster/Buell Model: Xl1250S
Sportster/Buell Year: 98
Other Motorcycle Model: Kawasaki Vulcan 500
Other Motorcycle Year: 95
Reputation: 7823783
Hippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond repute
Default

No, stock S model ignition, not tweakable.
I got higher vacuum with the engine up to temp (oil temp 200F).
I would believe that to be better ring seal.
We all know the engine runs better when hot. So that's my theory.
I believe I'm closer at least to bustert's testing anyway.
I was concerned that my initial testing had lower vacuum than his.
In my last testing, there wasn't as much change between 3000-4000.

I'm sure all this means something and I am not done testing variables.
But I did go back out to verify a couple readings before I posted the pics.
With engine temp about 160F, the vacuum was slightly lower.
Reply With Quote
  #786  
Old 29th October 2019
Hippysmack's Avatar
Hippysmack Hippysmack is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 7,983
Sportster/Buell Model: Xl1250S
Sportster/Buell Year: 98
Other Motorcycle Model: Kawasaki Vulcan 500
Other Motorcycle Year: 95
Reputation: 7823783
Hippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomcatt View Post
I was thinking this session was with a hot engine (and food coloring) vs the previous cold engine test? You were running under load with your manometer connected?
I may not have fully stated it properly.

The first test was on a cold startup. Just testing the waters with coffee.
The second was at operating temp, technically the way it should be and with food coloring.
But now I have a visual of the difference.
Both tests were done in my shop.

I was riding earlier today particularly in the 5000-6500 range to heat up the engine for testing.
I'd like to find a way to get the rig on the road but at the same time I don't want a 2x4 getting loose on the road.

Of course the thing that's gnawing at me the most is the oil cap thing.
I need to build another rig so I can test the cam chest and the oil tank at the same time.

And I need to check my tuning to see what's going on at 5500.
Main jet?
Reply With Quote
  #787  
Old 29th October 2019
Tomcatt Tomcatt is offline
Dazed & Confused
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Never Never Land
Posts: 2,418
Sportster/Buell Model: XL1200C
Sportster/Buell Year: 2017
Other Motorcycle Model: BMW R9T
Other Motorcycle Year: 2015
Reputation: 3024668
Tomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond reputeTomcatt has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hippysmack View Post
And I need to check my tuning to see what's going on at 5500. Main jet?
If you're talking about no load high revs, pilot jet. Try turning the mixture screw 1/2 turn at a time and see if that makes a noticeable difference. Just a way of diagnosing, a direction to go, not a fix.
Reply With Quote
  #788  
Old 29th October 2019
Hippysmack's Avatar
Hippysmack Hippysmack is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 7,983
Sportster/Buell Model: Xl1250S
Sportster/Buell Year: 98
Other Motorcycle Model: Kawasaki Vulcan 500
Other Motorcycle Year: 95
Reputation: 7823783
Hippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Also on my list is to check the mixture, timing and anything else I can with the slack tube hooked up.
I will also make bushings with holes in them to screw into my stock breather bolts to try and simulate the smaller holed breather bolts.
Just seeing what I can see before I swap to external breathing.
I don't want to change too much at one time.
But I'll go back into my carb and check things out.

She runs like a bat out of Hell on the road.
Reply With Quote
  #789  
Old 30th October 2019
bustert's Avatar
bustert bustert is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 10,609
Sportster/Buell Model: 1200s
Sportster/Buell Year: 2001
Sportster/Buell Model #2: xlch
Sportster/Buell Year #2: 1974
Reputation: 3365307
bustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond reputebustert has a reputation beyond repute
Default

you have 50 more cc
you have tighter reign on timing with double blip cup

i run ultima
timing full on at 2.8k rpm (or so) and adv max @ 28* (could come down some more)

i run retarded cam timing
i run the sportgear
i run the int'l ratio final drive
so not apples to apples.
Reply With Quote
  #790  
Old 30th October 2019
Hippysmack's Avatar
Hippysmack Hippysmack is offline
XL FORUM TEAM MEMBER
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 7,983
Sportster/Buell Model: Xl1250S
Sportster/Buell Year: 98
Other Motorcycle Model: Kawasaki Vulcan 500
Other Motorcycle Year: 95
Reputation: 7823783
Hippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond reputeHippysmack has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Yep.
And the bigger pistons, I would assume to yield slightly higher vacuum.
But I've also got the Buell crank with the cupped wheels.
And yours is slightly higher than mine.
Maybe I will change the umbrellas first.
Hard rain today and a power outage but I'll get back on it.

Right, I figured it wouldn't be apples to apples but I wouldn't figure there would be a huge difference.
They should act in kind to a point of the variances.
I'm just getting my feet yet though.

I've done some research on slack tubes and there doesn't seem to be a set ID requirement of the tubing.
It's apparently not a big issue?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:59.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
XL Forum® - Linson Media LLC