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  #181  
Old 5th April 2021
spoon spoon is offline
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I remember a post from about 10 years ago where someone did quite a bit of work on the internals of a rigid mount transmission. Tightened things up on the shifting forks ect. and I think addressed the detent plate looseness. I can't find the thread, maybe someone else will have better luck.
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  #182  
Old 5th April 2021
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Well, my thinking is that the side load off the detent plate you can't change.
You can weld the pins (carefully) but isn't there movement a symptom and not a cause?
The speed, vibration and heat will allow the pins to move out.
That's not to say all of them will move at the same time or temperature.
The load is going to happen any way.
If you have a positive stop on the end, would it eventually overcome the stop?
Thinking heat, vibration and time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hippysmack View Post
I used a propane torch on the old drum to see if (projected) operating temps may be the reason the pins can pull out.
At ambient temp, none of the pins would turn or move being clamped in vicegrips.
The drum was clamped in a vise, heat applied to it and the heat from the drum was measured with an infrared thermometer.
At various temps (197°F, 207°F and 242°F), all the pins were clamped with vicegrips with an attempt to turn them and only 1 of them ever moved.
Coincidently, it was the same pin that had previously been found to have pulled out from it's bore before making the detent plate skew.

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  #183  
Old 5th April 2021
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Maybe this is more follow-able.
There is designed slop in the shift mechanism from the shift shaft to the pawl.
If the pawl doesn't push the detent plate at a 90 degree angle, the detent plate will put pressure against the shoulder of the shift drum and the retainer clip.
With the shift drum being the strongest point, the load transfers to the clip.
Depending on soft or hard shifting, angle of the bike at the time, heat and vibration, that load can be more or less.
So what if the retainer ring was designed to handle that load and not the pins coming out?
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  #184  
Old 6th April 2021
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spoon View Post
Does anyone have a Baker shift drum that we could look at? I believe they addressed the circlip issue but not sure what they did. I sure wish they would start to make the shift drum again.
Here's that idea in the Sportsterpedia - It refers to this thread (http://xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=198227):
http://sportsterpedia.com/doku.php/t...e_the_trapdoor

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  #185  
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That looks like a good solution for the baker drum.
Threading the end for a nut.
The clip landing is only app .229" on my old OEM drum (small nut)
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  #186  
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Believe me, I've gone through the E clip solution BUT (in mechanics always there are "buts") the drum shaft GROOVE is designed exactly for that clip type (external bowed locking ring) and this entails 2 issues:
  • the groove diameter is .228" and there are no E clip perfectly fitting this size.
  • the groove wide is .085" and this is tooooo big for an E clip.
You can check the E clip sizes in the rotorclip.com website, for instance.

Besides drum pins would still be ramdomly backing out, forcing the detent plate to skew. It's important to understand one thing: if the pins would stay in place, then that simple stock clip could perfectly do the job, absorving small thermal metal deformations, vibrations and movements. So, removing this issue out of the equation would itself solves the problem.

So, I only see 2 CLEAR SOLUTIONS:
  1. Extract the pins, smooth their surface so that they can move freely inside their holes to remove the main side forces that push the detent plate. Now simply reinstall a new stock clip.
  2. Leave the pins equally protruding inside the drum. Extend the shaft groove till its end, thread it and use a washer & nut to hold the detent plate in place. This assembly DO WILL SUPPORT the forces of the backing out pins.
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  #187  
Old 6th April 2021
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How far do the pins slide into the drum? How hard is the drum? Can you drill and tap it? Could you put set screws in 90 degrees to the pins that engage flats on the pins, trapping the pins?
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  #188  
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Sorry Tomcatt I did not take the drum's pin hole depth, but the pins are 16 mm long. Holes should be around 10 mm depth. Regarding the drum material, I'm afraid it has to be hard steel for its grooves to support the 3 fork pins running along its surface without much wear.



Drilling or better tapping the drum's shaft shouldn't be an issue; think that the shaft is a separate part that is inserted in the drum. XLF member MatHormell did it in the past with success (pic below is his). The shaft diameter inside the groove is .228" (5.8 mm), so you could tap a 7/32-24G thread (or even better a 28G UNF) or a metric M5 (5 mm diameter) thread. The length from the detent plate (flush with the shaft groove) to the shaft tip is .177" (4.5 mm), enough for a nut. Should you want to use a washer too, just had to shorten the nut

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  #189  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xLoneRiderx View Post
...Drilling or better tapping the drum's shaft shouldn't be an issue; think that the shaft is a separate part that is inserted in the drum. XLF member MatHormell did it in the past with success (pic below is his). The shaft diameter inside the groove is .228" (5.8 mm), so you could tap a 7/32-24G thread (or even better a 28G UNF) or a metric M5 (5 mm diameter) thread. The length from the detent plate (flush with the shaft groove) to the shaft tip is .177" (4.5 mm), enough for a nut. Should you want to use a washer too, just had to shorten the nut...
Seems that would beat the hell out of the OE POS clip.
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  #190  
Old 7th April 2021
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I like the idea of threading a nut on the end. I wish it was where you could get a bigger nut on it though with a thin stainless washer.
The only rub is it's irreversible to add the nut for most folks without shop tools.
I'm still wondering about the detent plate side load though, why I wish the threads could be cut bigger.
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