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  #191  
Old 7th April 2021
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Usually when they use circlip, it's because of rotation. If you bolt, make sure the nut is positively locked.
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  #192  
Old 7th April 2021
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hippysmack View Post
I like the idea of threading a nut on the end. I wish it was where you could get a bigger nut on it though with a thin stainless washer.
The only rub is it's irreversible to add the nut for most folks without shop tools.
I'm still wondering about the detent plate side load though, why I wish the threads could be cut bigger.
With the 7/32-28G thread, that is a fine thread UNF, you can use a thinner than standard nut without an issue. That's what UNF was born for, its fine thread pitch makes it much more difficult to be loosen by vibrations.

Regarding the detent plate side force, the mechanical solution the MoCo used for fixing the pins on the drum's head was 3 small bulges of metal protruding at the end of 3 small grooves in the middle of each pin. Well, this small bulges are not enough for stopping the pins in place but are enough to keep them midway in their holes creating that side force on the detent plate. Should you simply sand those bulges out then that side forces will be removed. Once the pins can move freely in and out the hole, there is nothing pushing them out against the plate (the pawl strain on the pins is perpendicular so it almost counts). That's what I will do on my tranny for the next time it fails (finger crossed!) sanding the pins and installing a new stock clip to support the detent plate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rejeanprimeau View Post
Usually when they use circlip, it's because of rotation. If you bolt, make sure the nut is positively locked.
For your peace of mind, I can say the drum assemble is practically static, it only rotates some degrees whenever you change a gear. On the other hand, the stock (hated) clip does support an axle rotation up to 22,000 rpm.
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  #193  
Old 2nd May 2021
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I know you had various quality control problems with the parts you purchased so I'm not at all implying that ignition is the cause of your issues but I did notice that you set the Dyna ignition to Curve 3. Perhaps the information below might be helpful.
Quotes below are all from Aaron at Hammer Performance:

"Incorrect setting of the ignition timing is the number one cause of scuffed pistons."

"The stock timing on all HD models is too aggressive for the increased compression that typically comes with a performance engine kit. Higher compression speeds the burn and timing advance must be reduced from the factory level when installing an engine kit."

"If you're using a Dyna 2000 or 2000i, static time the module using the LED as described in the module's instructions, and put the module on Curve 4."

"It's a disaster, in our opinion, to point a timing light at a Harley,
especially a dual fire Harley with it's extraneous firings. Static time
it carefully (watch the video) and leave it."

http://www.hammerperf.com/ttvideos.shtml#statictiming

(I noticed that you posted that you are using the more aggressive Curve 3)

"Curve 4 per our (Hammer Performance) instructions, anytime our (Hammer Performance) instructions contradict the parts (Dyna Ignition) instructions or the factory service manual, follow our instructions instead. Dyna does not understand the requirements of our kits! Running the ignition on a more aggressive
curve can and probably will damage your engine kit. The pistons will scuff or fracture."

"Set your limiter to 6500, if using your stock HD valve
springs. That's about all they're good for."
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  #194  
Old 2nd May 2021
Turbo Sporty 48 Turbo Sporty 48 is offline
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Interesting observations Cyclone14.
Thanks for noticing and posting.
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  #195  
Old 3rd May 2021
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Thank you Cyclone14 for your reminders on HP instructions. I always have followed their advices and videos and loved their technical habilities and the easy way to comunicate complicated things.

Just think a thing (this was exactly what happenned to me): you have just bought a new motor kit and a new ignition module and have the possibility of asking your doubts to the fabricator; you know one or two things about bikes; you are aeronautic engineer and love Harley motors. Well you ask the fabricator what ingnition curve to follow with your exact bike configuration, and fully followed his advice AND THAT'S ALL (I keep all the emails conversations). After this all, I found out his company is out of business and neither him nor the kit seller wanted to take care of me. 1,000 € thrown through the window. The funny thing is that I've been reading several cases during the last years where other posters broke their motor kits and the fabricator took care of them and sent new kits for free, no matter the reason why they failed (you still can read these stories around here), but for a stupid like me, who strictly follow the fabricator advices, there's not help at all, so it's life!, but I don't want to talk about it no more, I got more interesting and productive things to deal with.

Changing the topic, I hope to receive my new cylinders from the Matt's Machine shop along this week, but in the meantime I will share tomorrow my solution for the "transmission shift drum moving pins" (although I had used Red Loctite and corrected the pins protusion, I finally disassembled it and adopted a new solution instead of waiting for another retainer fail).
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  #196  
Old 3rd May 2021
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Cool.
I've been waiting to see what you came up with on the pins.
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  #197  
Old 4th May 2021
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Default Shift drum "moving pins" issue - my solution

There are 4 cylindrical pins pressed inside the shift drum's head. Problem is that this assembly doesn't remain stable and litle by litle the pins start to move out of their recesses. These pins push the detent plate sideways forcing the retainer clip to break and you can imagine what comes next



What makes the pins move out of place? Vibrations, thermal changes and mechanical forces driven by the shift pawl pushing and pulling the pins.

Ok, those factors tend to pull the pins out; but what about the opposite force made by the spring effect of the bowed retainer clip? Well, it isn't enough to correct the others since the pins are pressed in the drum and tend to conserv its position once those forces stop (when you open your primary and measure the drum pins, they all protrudes different lengths, and if you try to extract them, they are hard!!!

My solution is easy: extract those stock pins [3/16" (4.8 mm) diam. x 5/8" (16 mm) long] using a propan/butan torch and a vise for extracting the stock pins.


and replace with plain pins [3/16" diam x 43/64" (17 mm) long] that smothly come in and out of the recesses. Let's call them FLOATING PINS

Stock pressed cylindrical pins:


New plain pins:



In the following cad illustration, the above pin is the stock pressed one. This is the stock situation: the pin protruding about 8 mm without touching the bottom of it recess (for you to make final adjustments with a hammer, you know). My pin scheme is below it, with the pin fully inserted and a total length of 17 mm (43/64").



Yes, I know this is not a very standard size, I bought instead 3/4" long pins and shortened them using an electric angle grinder; just need to reach 17 mm long. Look at next pics.



Also used the electric driller as a lathe to quickly lightly soften the pins surface with 200 sand paper so that they can go in and out of the shifter drum freely. Now my pins are inside the drum and will never be coming out of place since there is a permanent force provided by the stock retainer holding that assembly (pins plus detent plate).
This morning I have reassembled my primary and I've been playing with the gear shifting assembly and it feels smooth in movements and solid like a rock:



For those with a more creative mind, good machinist habilities and feeling a irepressible hate for the bowed retaining clip, here goes a bunch of other solutions. Retainers made from a standard steel washer 6 mm ID, 30 mm OD and 1.5 mm thick. The retainer is assembled to the detent plate through one or two M3 x 5 mm button head screws (in magenta color).





And finally, my favourite retaining clips! made from the same steel washer and with one or two slim cuts that end in a 2 mm drilled hole that convert that washer in a solid and elegant "E clip" that will support the drum-pins-detent_plate assembly in place. These cad model solutions may support the stock pressed pin assembly, but I don't like to work with a defective mechanism.


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  #198  
Old 4th May 2021
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I sure was hoping you were going to weld the pins in.
Oh well, this will serve as a good test for a floating pin design.
Good work!
With the test of time coming up, please be sure to update this thread on how it works.
I have reservations doing this on mine but you may could change my mind about that.
Viable options did come out in this thread and that is very important.

Question.
Is there any chance that one of those pins can get in the position to fall out of the slot in the detent plate and fall into the primary?
If one falls out, that leaves the other three vulnerable to do the same?

Last edited by Hippysmack; 4th May 2021 at 23:04..
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  #199  
Old 4th May 2021
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No to both questions.
The only way for a pin to completely go out of its hole (9 mm deep) is due to a broken retainer, and we already know this bowed retainers only break in cases of big forces pushing sideways or asymmetrically. It also could break if you install it without following the fabricator guidelines, i.e. If you install it leaving too short room between the detent plate and the drum shaft groove end, forcing the clip to stay almost smashed.
Even in the case of a broken clip, your less important concern are the pins going out of their holes since previously the detent plate had fallen out of its shaft crashin againts the clutch drive backside, bla-bla-bla☹️
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  #200  
Old 5th May 2021
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Fair enough.
Just thought I'd get your thoughts on it. I'm anxious to see how it works.
Carry on.
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