adjusting primary chain tension

[sportsterrific]

OK, I changed my primary oil but I can't figure out how to rotate the chain so I can find the tight spot to adjust the tension. I know how to do the actual adjusting. I have a lift, but no FSM only a Haynes manual.

http://www.xlforum.net/vbportal/forums/showthread.php?threadid=10084

[cantolina]

OK, I changed my primary oil but I can't figure out how to rotate the chain so I can find the tight spot to adjust the tension. I know how to do the actual adjusting. I have a lift, but no FSM only a Haynes manual.

Make sure its secure...rear wheel off the ground...

Put it in 5th, and you'll be able to turn it....

Take out your plugs, might be a little easier...

[sportsterrific]

Thanks. I tried that, maybe I wasn't trying hard enough, or I should've removed the plugs. OK I have something to do tonight.

[cantolina]

Thanks. I tried that, maybe I wasn't trying hard enough, or I should've removed the plugs. OK I have something to do tonight.

It IS a bitch.....I think someone here figured out that in 5th gear you have to get around 5 or 6 rotations to get the primary around once...

Helps if you have someone to spin the tire while you watch the primary....

[bubbahog]

Yep, it's a bear to get turning, but you're doing it right.

[Sportster Girl]

Hey Chuck,

I like your new avatar. Is that the expression you had on yer face when you sliced/diced Bambi's mommy?

[hero]

It's also possible to adjust the chain with the engine running. Carefully load it up (at operating temp) while the bike is idling in neutral until you hear a slight whine. Then slowly back the adjuster off until the whine dissapears. For peace of mind, you can back the adjuster off a further 1/8th of a turn from this point, & then lock up the nut on the adjuster. Perfect noiseless shifts & no more missing gears...

[Turbota]

hero ....

Now, that's the best tip I have heard in a loooong time!

When you say "load it up" ... do you mean hold the rear brake slightly while running it on a lift in gear ... maybe 1st gear would be best?

I'm just a little confused.

Thanks,
Ron

[Takingabreak]

Hey Chuck,

I like your new avatar. Is that the expression you had on yer face when you sliced/diced Bambi's mommy?


Dang it SG, you beat me to it....I thought the same thing.

Now for the manditory Banna... :bananinj :banadanc

[Racer X]

I was just getting ready to tackle this service myself but got way to annoyed when the 27t torx screws stripped when taking off the cover! I managed to get to fluid changed but have been waiting to read how to adjust the chain. I like the sound of adjusting it with the bike running since I certainly don't want to take the cover off again if I don't have to! Please describe "loading it up" if you can. I read it as loading the chain by adjusting the tensioner. Is that what you mean? Does the wheel need to be spinning? Thanks for your help!

[IronMick]

You must remove the spark plugs. And if you get it into 4th/5th gear also it will actually be easy to rotate the rear wheel.

To change gears rotate the wheel until it catches then hold in the clutch and yank on the shifter; repeat for each gear.

It should not be difficut to rotate the wheel.

I would not attempt to find the tightest spot first. It is much more simple to adjust it at whereever it happens to be, then rotate the wheel looking for any spot that is too tight and loosen it there.

[Turbota]

Racer X ...

I have no idea what year your bike is ... but you don't ever have to take that derby cover off (that large round cover that you stripped the screws out of)

If you have a 04-05, just drain out the tranny fluid after riding the bike. It's got to be hot. Remove the tranny drain plug and get up on it after it stops draining. Move the bike a little right of vertical and then straight up. A little more fluid will drain out. Take your time. Pretty soon, all of the fluid will be removed.

Remove the 2 screws that attach the oval shaped chain inspection cover. Put a plastic funnel in the hole and slowly add exactly 1 Qt of H-D Sport-Trans fluid. Replace the cover ... That's it.

BTW .. the tranny drain plug has a magnet attached to it ... get a rag and remove all the metalic "fuss" from the plug.

As far as adjusting the chain ... you don't remove the derby cover either ... it's done by checking the chain through that same oval shaped cover.

Bottom line ... you don't need to remove the pain in the ass derby cover!

[hero]

By 'loading up' I mean slowly increase the preload on the tensioner. No need to have the rear wheel turning or even on a lift. Only the engine running, as the whine is audible with the bike standing still. Might be an even clearer whine if you GENTLY twist the throttle between each turn of the adjuster. Take it for a testdrive after, & take the 2 adjusting wrenches with you, coz if you got it wrong, it's only a matter of slackening the locknut & making a fine tuning. Saved me a lot of time in the past.

[Turbota]

Thanks .......

[MidWest XL]

Great time-saving tip, hero. Thanks

[01Sporty]

Dang it SG, you beat me to it....I thought the same thing.


Chuck, that pic looks like beads from the Rio in Vegas or Mardi Gras New Orleans.

C'mon inquiring minds need to know!

No dancin bananas for me TY.

Regards,

[Racer X]

Turbota/Hero,

Thanks for the tips! I'm going to give the primary adjustment a shot this weekend. I'll let you know how it goes.



Have a great weekend!
Racer X

[Turbota]

Well, I went out in the garage today and for the first time, I believe my primary chain is correctly adjusted.

I have been complaining for some time now that my chain never was running the correct tension. I have tried to adjust it per the Service manuals procedure a couple of times now ... But I have had no luck at all. I tried adjusting it on a lift and without a lift. Never could get that "tight spot" in the chain right.

Today I didn't use the lift. Got the motor/trans good and hot. Then I put a piece of wood under the jiffy stand to get the bike more upright. Removed the chain inspection cover and started the bike. Left it in neutral ... With the chain spinning like crazy, I could see it slapping all over the place. Adjusted it tighter while it was spinning. Got it where the top of of chain would bounce just a little (but not slapping around like before).

Be aware that a little oil will come out of the inspection hole since the chain gets lots of oil when it's spinning. Maybe lost about an ounce ... not big deal

Cleaned up the oil mess with spray brake cleaner.

Drove the bike .... It's much quieter without any of that "supercharger gear" sound you get with too tight a chain, but it don't clatter like before.

Perfect ... As far as I'm concerned, this is the only way I will ever adjust it again ... You can actually see whats going on unlike the regular way of adjusting it.

I thought I had adjusted the chain correctly before ... but it was way too loose and sloppy.

If you do it like this, make sure the bike is first driven to get it real hot. That chain will tighten the hotter it gets.

Thanks again to "hero" for the info .... :)

Ron,

[hero]

Glad you're happy Ron ! Less time wrenchin' & more time ridin... (& HOW good do those shifts feel eh?? Smooth but solid.) :D

Be safe
Stef

[xena]

Ron was it easy to detect the whine sound that Hero mentioned? Can I adjust it this way going by the sound alone? I just did my 5k service today and that chain adjustment is the last remaining thing on the list to do so it would be cool if doing it this way works.

[WinXP]

This sounds like a great way to adjust chain. Mine has about 5k miles on it an probably needs adjusted. Would like to see more results doing it this way.

[Turbota]

Ron was it easy to detect the whine sound that Hero mentioned? Can I adjust it this way going by the sound alone?

xena ...

I really didn't adjust it by sound alone. In fact, I adjusted it by looking at it's movement.

I never tightened it so tight that it would start that whirring sound.

In my case, the top part of the chain was really flopping around when the bike was idling. I tightened the chain so when it was spinning, it would have just a little up and down movement (I didn't want to get it too tight), but not bouncing around.

In my case, there is no whirring sound now (so I know it's not too tight), but it ain't flopping all over the place either ..... That's about the best I can discribe it.

Again, I could never seem to get it right by trying to do it like what is shown in the Service manual. Just too much room for error ... but doing it when the engines running, you can see exactly what's going on.

Ron,

[xena]

Ok, well I'm going to try it Hero's way (by the sound). He says he does it that way so I trust it will work.

[hero]

It'll be fine either way Xena, but maybe mine isn't quite as messy. Just make sure the engine is hot (operating temps), & adjust the chain little by little, allowing enough time to get your ear accustomed to all the drivetrain noise so you'll pick out the whine (sounds like a hairdryer, or a siren in the distance & will increase with engine revs) easier. When you think you've nailed it, take it for a testdrive.If the whine is still audible- loosen adjuster slightly,if the gearshift is clunky - tighten adjuster slightly.

Stef

[xena]

Thanks Stef. I'll give it a shot later today and will post back in case anyone else is new to this method.

[WinXP]

Adjusted the primary chain hero's way. With engine running an trying to do it by sound. But my hearing is not the best anymore. So pulled the inspection cover off to check it an had to back it off a little.

Turbota is correct on fluid coming out. I might suggest a short height pan under kick stand to catch oil. I used a old beach towel on top of a piece of cardboard. With a 1" wood block under kick stand. I may have lost more than a ounce but with hot oil it is hard to tell. Added a ounce back when completed.

Thanks hero for the tip.

[xena]

I think I've got it. Gonna ride two towns over to my friend Adams shop. He's got a 73' Sporty and he's a big time grease monkey so if it's not right he'll teach me how to adjust it by ear.

[xena]

I did it :banana , thanks Hero! It's perfect now. Psyched. :) Thanks again for the tip.

[01Sporty]

I did it :banana , thanks Hero! It's perfect now. Psyched. :) Thanks again for the tip.

Me too, just finished, got cleaned-up and off for a the final test ride.

I did however make a clear "inspection" cover out of a small piece of plastic, I lost maybe 10 drops of fluid and it wasn't very messy... Don't ya just love Brake Cleaner?
:)

BTW, is it usual for the adjust me to be 1 - 2 turns tighter with only 1,500 miles on it?

Thanks Hero and Turbota.

[sportysrock]

It'll be fine either way Xena, but maybe mine isn't quite as messy. Just make sure the engine is hot (operating temps), & adjust the chain little by little, allowing enough time to get your ear accustomed to all the drivetrain noise so you'll pick out the whine (sounds like a hairdryer, or a siren in the distance & will increase with engine revs) easier. When you think you've nailed it, take it for a testdrive.If the whine is still audible- loosen adjuster slightly,if the gearshift is clunky - tighten adjuster slightly.

Stef

I'm doing my 5K service and adjusted the clutch and primary today - 'cold' like the service manual says. It seemed to be pretty close to the spec they gave. Started it and took off for a ride to get screws to replace those damn torx derby cover screws, argh! :censor

I get where I'm going and I hear the whining. I'm going to check the adjustment with it hot and see where it falls as compared to the service manual 'hot' spec. PITA!!! Don't tell anyone I swore. :shhhh

[sportysrock]

I checked it again 'hot' and loosened it slightly. It makes a minor whirring noise at about 1500 RPM but goes away near 2000 and doesn't come back so there doesn't seem much to worry about. Another 'cold' check may be in order for the -I LUV XLF!--I LUV XLF!--I LUV XLF!--I LUV XLF!--I LUV XLF!--I LUV XLF!- of it.

[acenorm]

I need a suggestion on how to loosen the lock nut on the adjuster. Can I just put a set of vice grips on the bottom of the bolt? I went to break the lock nut off and the whole bolt spun, so the nut is still "locked". Any ideas, or did anyone else run into this problem? Thanks

Best Regards,
Norm

[ZanexGt]

I don't have my manual in front of me otherwise I'd look it up myself but ...

Is there a special tool needed to adjust the primary chain tension using Hero's method?

I'd really like to try it w/ the engine running since it sounds relatively simple.

[xena]

I don't have my manual in front of me otherwise I'd look it up myself but ...

Is there a special tool needed to adjust the primary chain tension using Hero's method?

I'd really like to try it w/ the engine running since it sounds relatively simple.

Nope. Regular wrenches. I did mine using Hero's method.

[sportysrock]

I need a suggestion on how to loosen the lock nut on the adjuster. Can I just put a set of vice grips on the bottom of the bolt? I went to break the lock nut off and the whole bolt spun, so the nut is still "locked". Any ideas, or did anyone else run into this problem? Thanks

Best Regards,
Norm

If I remember it's a 1/4 Allen and 7/8 wrench. Sounds like if you snug the nut back up it should be close to where you started, then hold the Allen while loosening the nut.

I did the reverse to tighten it up. Adjusted chain, held Allen Bolt, Snugged nut, and finish torqued nut to spec.

Good luck.

[acenorm]

I finally figured it out. I felt around the bottom of the bolt and found that there was an allen fitting to hold the bolt. The manual didn't say anything about it, and that was what was throwing me off. It is all adjusted, and it seems better. The only other thing I had a problem with was when I was replacing the inspection cover, it doesn't seem flush to the primary cover on one side. I don't know if it was to start off with, but I tried fixing it 3-4 times, and it comes out the same way each time. I tripled checked the o-ring each time, and there are no leaks after one short ride, so I guess it is fine.

Best Regards,
Norm

[01Sporty]

The only other thing I had a problem with was when I was replacing the inspection cover, it doesn't seem flush to the primary cover on one side. I don't know if it was to start off with, but I tried fixing it 3-4 times, and it comes out the same way each time. I tripled checked the o-ring each time, and there are no leaks after one short ride, so I guess it is fine.

Best Regards,
Norm

I had the same thing, then realized the inspection cover has to go on a particular way, try turning it 180 degrees.

Good Luck,

[acenorm]

I already tried that, but I'll take another look at it tonight. Thanks.

Best Regards,
Norm

[01Sporty]

I figured that but also thought it was worth mentioning.


Have Fun,

[ZanexGt]

By 'loading up' I mean slowly increase the preload on the tensioner. No need to have the rear wheel turning or even on a lift. Only the engine running, as the whine is audible with the bike standing still. Might be an even clearer whine if you GENTLY twist the throttle between each turn of the adjuster.

Ok, I plan on tackling the adjustment of my primary chain today or tomorrow. The way I see it, this is how to do it.

1. Loosen up the Nut to make adjustment of the allen bolt inside possible.
2. Turn the allen bolt to tighten the chain
3. With the bike running and in neutral, view the primary chain through the inspection window for slop. (Do we need to check the chain w/ engine offas well?)
4. Listen for audible whine
5. If no whine, turn adjuster until whine appears and then back off the allen bolt adjuster 1/8 of a turn.
6. Test rev engine for whine sound.
7. If no whine sound, tighten up bolts and then you're done.

Is this correct all? I am a little unsure of #3. Do I need to even take the inspection cover off the bike?

Thanks ...

[01Sporty]

3. With the bike running and in neutral, view the primary chain through the inspection window for slop. (Do we need to check the chain w/ engine offas well?)

With the engine running, you could see the chain flopping around, I had no way to tell how much slop, so I used the whining like Hero suggested.

FWIW, I took my cover off just because I wanted to watch the chains "action".
You'll get quite a bit of oil spewing out.
I made a small cover from a piece of plastic (like the material used for packing items on a piece of cardboard).
I was able to see the chain, and only had a little oil drip out past the plastic.

Regards,

[ZanexGt]

FWIW, I took my cover off just because I wanted to watch the chains "action".
You'll get quite a bit of oil spewing out.

I figured there'd be quite a bit of oil spewing out of there if I had the inspection cover off and the engine running. I guess it's possible just to leave the inspection cover on while adjusting? Wouldn't the sound be enough of a guage?

[Turbota]

Zanex ... You don't get that much oil coming out. The chain inspection cover is small and is way way above the oil level. The chain will throw a slight amount of oil out of the cover, but not a lot. Buy a spray can of brake cleaner (AutoZone brand works great) and spray down the area after your done.

[01Sporty]

Zanex ... You don't get that much oil coming out. The chain inspection cover is small and is way way above the oil level. The chain will throw a slight amount of oil out of the cover, but not a lot. Buy a spray can of brake cleaner (AutoZone brand works great) and spray down the area after your done.

Define "that much". I started out without the cover and although the oil coming out wasn't in a constant stream it was a drop or two every second.
I figured that after several minutes of adjusting I'd have quite a puddle to clean up.

[Alasportster]

I just used the "tighten 'til it whines, back off til it doesn't" method, and I can't see a better way.

I might add, that anyone who starts to notice a "buzz" of a vibration, in the pegs and grips, might try adjusting the primary, because I had noticed such a buzz, that was new, and was about to start looking everywhere, but the primary adjustment solved it, as I hoped it would.

Not to mention that it shifts a lot better, which I already knew it would.

As far as the oil spillage with the cover off, (I didn't remove the cover, might try it again with what I'm about to suggest) I believe a piece of plexiglass could be cut to shape, and drilled, and placed over the hole in place of the cover during the adjustment process, to keep anything from coming out.

The oil might obscure visibility, but it's worth a try. I'll give a report on this, if someone doesn't beat me to it.

I also notice that there is an auto adjuster available, and I probably am going to try one. I know HD has gone to that on the Dynas this year, and there's no more primary inspection cover, cause there's no adjustment.

[01Sporty]

As far as the oil spillage with the cover off, (I didn't remove the cover, might try it again with what I'm about to suggest) I believe a piece of plexiglass could be cut to shape, and drilled, and placed over the hole in place of the cover during the adjustment process, to keep anything from coming out.

The oil might obscure visibility, but it's worth a try. I'll give a report on this, if someone doesn't beat me to it.

I actually started out cutting a small piece of Lexan I had sitting there, then decided a piece of hard plastic from a blister pack would be good enough.

I too was wondering about the oil obscuring the chain. I decided to keep my halogen work lamp close by. The oil did splash up onto the plastic cover, but with the lamp and the chain's shiny pins, I could see (it) fine through the oil.

[Alasportster]

"I actually started out cutting a small piece of Lexan I had sitting there, then decided a piece of hard plastic from a blister pack would be good enough."

Good idea, on the blister pack plastic.

[01Sporty]

Thanks,
I was thinking of patenting it... :)

[ZanexGt]

Zanex ... You don't get that much oil coming out. The chain inspection cover is small and is way way above the oil level. The chain will throw a slight amount of oil out of the cover, but not a lot. Buy a spray can of brake cleaner (AutoZone brand works great) and spray down the area after your done.

Thanks Turbota. I think I might use the "blister pack" idea mentioned earlier in this thread. Oil spray may obscure the view after a few seconds but I don't think it would take me long to figure out if the chain was flopping about.

[sportysrock]

I have set, checked, and checked it again. It seems to be within spec but I still get a slight whine which seems to go away as I mentioned in an earlier post of this thread.

Maybe the spec that Harley gives is just a bit too tight? I'm going to try the hot adj. / no whine method and see how the final measurement turns out.

What was someone's hot or cold measurement after they adjusted it running?
Please state year/model for others to compare, thanks!

Did I say that this forum is the best?

[thunderpaw]

I have seen the Southern Oregon Hot Bikes hydraulic adjuster for Big Twins (HB-125) Looks like a nice unit, but a call to them today informed me that while they thought of making a Sportster version, nothing is even in the design phase. It would be nice, tho'.

Kim

[Alasportster]

In this month's American Iron, I found one by Hayden:

http://www.haydensm6.com/

Looks like they make them for lots of years and bikes.

[ZanexGt]

Well, I have finally adjusted my primary chain and what a PIA it was.

I figured I would play it safe and use a piece of clear plastic to view my chain spinning about as I adjusted my primary chain. I took off the clutch inspection cover and placed my plastic in place. I knew that the seal wasn't tight but I was just expecting a small amount of spray not the gushing of fluid that happened!

http://img319.imageshack.us/img319/1381/dsc021313ph.jpg

Well, with the plastic in place and the adjuster loosened up, I started the motorcycle. Primary Fluid started gushing out of the inspection cover.

http://img319.imageshack.us/img319/3887/dsc021320xf.jpg

I quickly got a drainage container and some kitty litter to clean up the mess on my driveway, ugh.

It was rediculous. I couldn't believe how much was coming out. So, I took off my plastic cover and put the inspection cover back on. I wiped up the area and proceded to adjust the chain tension using Hero's method. My bike was cold and I noticed that I couldn't hear any whining until she was warmed up. My advice would be to make sure the bike is up to operating temp before trying to adjust the primary chain tension. Anyway, I heard the squeel sound. It sounds much like the whine of a supercharger. I backed off the adjuster about 1/8 of a turn and tightened everything down.
Since I had lost so much fluid earlier through the inspection cover (about
5 ounces) I just drained/replaced the fluid w/ an extra bottle of Mobil 1 75W/90 that I had in the garage.

Going down the highway I noticed a new and annoying vibration in the right foot peg. It was quite noticeable and I knew it had to be something to do w/ the primary chain tension. I figured my chain was too tight or loose, probably too tight. Well, luckily I brought the tools w/ me and adjusted again in a supermarket parking lot. After 2 more stops/adjustments I have the chain where the vibrations are back to where they were, (little to nonexistent).

When the chain was tightened using Hero's method, I'd get bad vibration but I knew the chain was tight. Now that I have backed off the adjuster and loosened the chain, I'm worried it's too loose but it does feel fine while driving.

My only guess is that Harley's spec of 1/4" of movement for the primary chain while hot is a little too tight for my bike. My bike seems to like double that free play at the very least.

I don't think that the extra movement will hurt that much. What do you all think?

[01Sporty]

Hi,
Wow, you sure had a lot more oil come out then I did. What you had in that pic was what I had with only 5 seconds of running before I made the plastic cover.
Also, my inspection cover is round and much smaller (01 XLH1200). I used a couple of washers and tightened the screws just past hand tight.

Sorry it didn't work out better for you.

Regards,

[thunderpaw]

In this month's American Iron, I found one by Hayden:

http://www.haydensm6.com/

Looks like they make them for lots of years and bikes.I knew about the Hayden...it's a spring tension design, not a self-adjusting hydraulic unit like the Hot Bike
http://www.sohotbikes.com/images/tensioner.JPG
I want one! (but they don't make a Sportster version!)

Kim

[chrome]

http://www.ksbnetwork.com/plug.jpg (http://66.115.222.101/plug.jpg)

Here is what i found on my 5000 mile service i have been working on today. The funny thing is that the plug was not secure and you can see how far it was out. Still took about a quart out of the trans so i think i'm alright. *mental note check all work that that the dealer does*

The service went fine, need to find out what i need to get to lube the cables though, and what i should be looking for on my brakes.

Does anyone else have pics of what their plug looks like? or if that is ALOT of metal shavings?

Thanks alot, Ken

[sportysrock]

http://www.ksbnetwork.com/plug.jpg (http://66.115.222.101/plug.jpg)

Here is what i found on my 5000 mile service i have been working on today. The funny thing is that the plug was not secure and you can see how far it was out. Still took about a quart out of the trans so i think i'm alright. *mental note check all work that that the dealer does*

The service went fine, need to find out what i need to get to lube the cables though, and what i should be looking for on my brakes.

Does anyone else have pics of what their plug looks like? or if that is ALOT of metal shavings?

Thanks alot, Ken

Hmmn, the torque spec is 14-30 ft-lbs for the trans drain plug on an '04, that shouldn't be coming out. I run mine in to 25 ft-lbs and it doesn't come out.
That metal is very fine and it looks pretty bad but what are you going to do?

Clean it off and change the fluid is about it. Then go for a nice ride and set off car alarms! :tour :tour

[chrome]

The oil seemed dirty and makes me wonder if they changed it ay my 1000 mile, but i think i will be changing when i change my oil next time at 7500.

Would like to see/hear if there are similar amounts in other 04-06 sporties or not.

Should i take a pic up to the dealer and see if this is normal???

[Turbota]

That black metal on your magnetic drain plug is called "fuss". Don't worry about it. It's normal.

[radar]

I tried Hero's adjustment method- here's what I found.
Warmed the scoot up good with a 20 mile ride in the hills, brought it home let it site ithe driveway idleing while I whipped out my wrenches. I did the adjustment as described, even backed off the 1/8 turn just in case. Got back on the bike and repeated the previous ride. At 45 in fourth gear, and 57 in fifth I got some seriuos shaking in the bars and pegs.
I had all the stuff in the garage, so I put her up on the lift and did a full service, with the exception of the primary adjustment because it was getting dark, and dinner was ready. I left her on the lift overnight.
This morning I did the cold adjustment procedure per the manual. At the tightest spot I had less the 1/4" of free play in the chain-not good. I adjusted it to 3/8" free play at the tight spot and repeated the ride twice around. Now all is well.
I had no issues to start with, but I thought it would be good to try this procedure. I did notice considerably quieter shifting, but when she started to shake I knew something was wrong.
The running adjustment may work fine for some bikes, not mine.
Just thought I'd let you all know.
On a second note, I was surpised how dark the primary fluid was when I drained it after 2000 mlies. Only a tiny bit of metal on the plug magnet, that was reassuring.
So, I think I'll stay with the factory procedures from now on. :tour

[beast1]

ditto on that. i adj.mine with factory manual too. aprox 3/8inch. and she

runs much better- smoother shifting as well.

[xlhflh]

Hi All:
Just my .02. I do not think adjusting the primary chain with the engine running is a good idea. The hotter the engine/sprockets get the tighter the chain gets. The adjustment process with a running engine seems to put the chain at almost max tension for the current temp of the engine at adjustment time. Consider your weather conditions and the kind of riding you do. To be safe you should theoretically wait for the hottest day of the year and then ride your bike as fast and as long as you ever plan on riding it just before you adjust the chain. The method in the manual is a tried and true method.
Sometimes it s_cks being an engineer, too many questions to be answered.
:)
Bob

[xena]

Took me a few attempts but I got it right. Radar you probably overtightened it. Hero's method works well but I believe it takes a bit to train your ear to listen for the right sounds because these motors run so noisy to begin with. All ya gotta do is bring the two tools with you when you test ride, and loosen a little bit more since most people would prolly tend to overtighten.
Hero did say get the bike to operating temp first.

Hey bob no offense meant of course, but 99% of the engineers I have worked along side, always did things the hard way and ended up costing the company more money in the end. :frownone

[Moker]

my 5k is due, thanks for all the info, i'll be trying this hopefully this week.

[Turbota]

Hi All:
Just my .02. I do not think adjusting the primary chain with the engine running is a good idea. The hotter the engine/sprockets get the tighter the chain gets. The adjustment process with a running engine seems to put the chain at almost max tension for the current temp of the engine at adjustment time.
Bob

I see your point ... but in my case, I adjusted the chain when the motor/tranny was very hot and the chain was already at it's max tension.

Certainly adjusting the chain with the engine running while everything is cold will result in an overtight chain after all parts are heated to normal operating temps.

Ron,

[radar]

Xena, re-read my post, bike was hot. FM cold procedure cured the vibration problems I had after Hero's procedure. Don't know what else to say.

[jbcant]

Radar,

What method did you use to find the tight spot in the chain?

[mustangt5]

adjusted mine today. 3500 miles and it took about 1/4 turn.
much better and no noises or shaking.

[sportysrock]

BUMP!

I have set, checked, and checked it again. It seems to be within spec but I still get a slight whine which seems to go away as I mentioned in an earlier post of this thread.

Maybe the spec that Harley gives is just a bit too tight? I'm going to try the hot adj. / no whine method and see how the final measurement turns out.

What was someone's hot or cold measurement after they adjusted it running?
Please state year/model for others to compare, thanks!

Has anyone re-measured it hot or cold after adjusting it while running?
Thanks!

[flag888]

Just thought I'd BUMP this to the top, so it's not lost. Just don't want to lose it. Thought: Could someone turn this into a STICKY, I think it's a really informative thread.

Scott

[tcspannerwrench]

Took me a few attempts but I got it right. Radar you probably overtightened it. Hero's method works well but I believe it takes a bit to train your ear to listen for the right sounds because these motors run so noisy to begin with. All ya gotta do is bring the two tools with you when you test ride, and loosen a little bit more since most people would prolly tend to overtighten.
Hero did say get the bike to operating temp first.

Hey bob no offense meant of course, but 99% of the engineers I have worked along side, always did things the hard way and ended up costing the company more money in the end. :frownone
You must work in a chemical plant (i do) you would not belive the outlandish stuf engineers come up with.

[xena]

Just thought I'd BUMP this to the top, so it's not lost. Just don't want to lose it. Thought: Could someone turn this into a STICKY, I think it's a really informative thread.

Scott


add it to your subscribed threads and then you can access it easily from the quick links. :D

[flag888]

Thanks Xena, I'm not much of a computer guy, and don't think of the easy stuff like that, I guess I make it out to be more complicated in my head than it really is.
TCSPANNERWRENCH: AWESOME AVATAR!!!!!!
Was wondering when someone was gonna use that as an Avatar!!!!
Priceless!!

Scott

[Moved On]

Xena's recommendation is a good one to keep in your back pocket. Since there aren't already any stuck threadsi in this section it won't hurt to stick it there either... so I just stuck this thread up there so you can find it easier next time.

Gazza

[flag888]

Thanks Gary

Scott

[mordak]

It would be great to see Bert or someone else make a video of this procedure for all to watch. Then Bert could put it in the HowTo's Section. Anyone anyone!?!?!? :D

[Johnny G]

I found that sticking a piece of clear packing tape over the hole works good with 0 mess

[mroy05]

I plan on doing my 5K this weekend. I'm sure I'll be using this thread as a reference.

[donna]

hi guys,

i feel that this is one great forum. i have learned so much from the threads and replies that ya all post here.

i have been readin' this thread for along time.----and that is one trick idea about adjustin' the primary chain by sound. :clap

i ran this by a friend of mine on another forum who is one smokin' hot wrench. he won't help me much tho as he doesn't like hd's :( even tho he makes his livin' workin' on them--along with all the other brands of bikes. he said that he has seen this way used but he doesn't recommend it because of the different lubrication properties of the different oils.

so this is what i got out of what he said and is my opinion only and it could be way off. some oils break down quicker than other oils and hence a quicker whinning noise.----and of course the converse of that is true also, some oils take longer to break down and hence the chain could be tightened more tightly.

i feel that whatever method, whether it be that of the fsm, that of hero, or that of turbota that works for you is good. however, i feel that using a combination of hero's sound and turbota's sight method should solve most problems.

[Tucson_Tim]

I just got a used 04 1200R with 6K miles and there is a pretty serious buzz in both footpegs when under a load at about 3500 RPM. Not having owned an HD before I thought this was normal. After reading this entire thread, I'm beginning to wonder. I don't hear a whine but I also wear a helmet. I also don't notice a whine while at idle (without helmet) but I may not be recognizing the whine. It seemed to shift fine - no problems at all.

I plan to adjust the primary drive chain as soon as I get a FM - just ordered.

My question: Does the vibration occur because the primary drive chain is too loose or too tight?

Tim

[xllent01]

I just got a used 04 1200R with 6K miles and there is a pretty serious buzz in both footpegs when under a load at about 3500 RPM. Not having owned an HD before I thought this was normal. After reading this entire thread, I'm beginning to wonder. I don't hear a whine but I also wear a helmet. I also don't notice a whine while at idle (without helmet) but I may not be recognizing the whine. It seemed to shift fine - no problems at all.

I plan to adjust the primary drive chain as soon as I get a FM - just ordered.

My question: Does the vibration occur because the primary drive chain is too loose or too tight?

Tim

It's a sportster they all vibrate:tour vibration is common place on a sporty. If the primary chain was too tight or too loose you would have a hard time shifting your bike and a hard time finding neutral most of the time while riding.

[Tucson_Tim]

Adjustment must be fine then - it shifts like a dream and neutral is easy to find.

Thanks.

[honez]

Carefully load it up (at operating temp) while the bike is idling in neutral until you hear a slight whine. ...

since the bike is in neutral the rear wont spin no need for a lift.

[opiate9680]

I just used hero's method of adjusting the primary chain by just listening to the whine. I've been playing bass for over eleven years now and did some work with a band under epic records a couple of years ago in the studio and touring for a few years, so i'd like to think i've got a pretty good set of ears. I rode for about twenty minutes to get it up to operating temperature, pulled over and started tinkering with the adjusting bolt for the shoe. it took a little bit to get the sound of the whine in my head, you've got to rev the engine to make sure its there too, it kind of amplifies it. You've really got to listen to it even after the engine revs down back to idle (on its way down it sounds more like a siren). After following hero's advice to the letter, i tooled around a parking lot at slow revs and noticed that it was in fact more responsive and shifting was a bit better, not by much, but it was improved none the less.

My hats off to ya hero! :clap i owe you one man :cheers

[MuddyXL]

"I actually started out cutting a small piece of Lexan I had sitting there, then decided a piece of hard plastic from a blister pack would be good enough."

Good idea, on the blister pack plastic.

Why not just put a pice of clear packing tape over the hole? Or better yet do the adjustment after draining the primary and then refill it.

[speedster]

I am adjusting my primary today. I noticed, cold, that if I lift up on the chain I had about 1 1/4 inches of play from the bottom of the chain to the bottom of the chain after pushing up. Question .... do you measure the play with the chain relaxed, at the bottom of the chain and then push up to get the 3/8 to 1/2 inch. Thought I would check the old way then warm the bike up and do Hero's way to see. Tim

[jduffy01]

i measured the distance the pin holding the links changed when pushed up and down. it is the amount up plus the amount down added together to get the 3/8 to 1/2 cold.

[88sporty]

I tried the adjust till it whines, but I'm afraid my hearing loss precudes that method. I did'nt hear anything.

[FredrikK]

It's also possible to adjust the chain with the engine running. Carefully load it up (at operating temp) while the bike is idling in neutral until you hear a slight whine. Then slowly back the adjuster off until the whine dissapears. For peace of mind, you can back the adjuster off a further 1/8th of a turn from this point, & then lock up the nut on the adjuster. Perfect noiseless shifts & no more missing gears...

Hmmm when running att operation temperature the chain is longer than when cold. So if you adjust it correct when hot, what happens att cold starts and during the first miles? When it surely is to hard tensed...

[a45junkie]

the aluminum engine case actually expands more than the chain so it gets tighter when hot than cold

[cutter]

I agree with a45junkie, the chain does get tighter when hot.

[FredrikK]

I agree with a45junkie, the chain does get tighter when hot.

That would be against all known physics and the roles of thermal expansion. My guess is that the transmission chain is atleast 1/10 of an Inch longer when it is hot than it is cold. The casted aluminium expands in all directions which should mean that the center of the axels differs a lot less than the chain due to the thermal expansion.
Anyone that can prove me wrong?

[Stevlom]

That would be against all known physics and the roles of thermal expansion. My guess is that the transmission chain is atleast 1/10 of an Inch longer when it is hot than it is cold. The casted aluminium expands in all directions which should mean that the center of the axels differs a lot less than the chain due to the thermal expansion.
Anyone that can prove me wrong?

If the cold spec is 3/8 to 1/2 and the hot spec is 1/4 to 3/8 the chain is tighter when the engine is hot. Sure the aluminum expands in all directions but how much does it expand between the axels? Is that the expansion more important than the expansion of engine sprocket and the clutch hub and sprocket? As long as I know the spec and adjust the primary accordingly it's all good.

[semjpm]

Another data point- YMMV. If the engine is hot (operating temp and just back from a ride), I was able to adjust the primary chain with a good tach by tightening the chain until there is a slight drop in RPM and backing off 1/8 turn. The drop that I aimed for was 50 RPM. You can hear it, but the tach takes the subjective elements out. I then manually checked the hot free play and it was slightly greater than 1/4". Let it cool overnight and it was slightly less than 1/2" or so. One problem that I was having was the free play can seem to vary depending on the actual temperature of the parts (define hot??) and the fact that the initial push (lift) of the chain always seemed to be yield less free play that repeated lifts do.

This method yielded a good result for me with no excess vibration during a long run high speed and pretty smooth shifting. Hero and others have documented similar procedures listening for the whine but I guess my hearing is not good enough to get it really centered using those methods. I am going to fabricate a Lucite cover for the inspection portal, try the "most stable chain" method and check it against the RPM decrease idea.

SEMJPM

[chrishajer]

That would be against all known physics and the roles of thermal expansion. My guess is that the transmission chain is atleast 1/10 of an Inch longer when it is hot than it is cold. The casted aluminium expands in all directions which should mean that the center of the axels differs a lot less than the chain due to the thermal expansion.
Anyone that can prove me wrong?
I'm not here to prove anyone wrong. But from experience, the chain gets tighter when the engine gets hot. That is an observeable, known fact. It just happens. That's why the spec is tighter for when the bike is at operating temperature.

I can provide some other examples. When installing wheel bearings, you sometimes heat the aluminum wheel to make the HOLE larger. When you heat aluminum with a hole in the middle, the hole gets larger, not smaller, indicating to me that the aluminum does not expand in every direction, or if it does, it expands more outward than inward.

When the primary case (engine case on an XL) gets hot, the aluminum expands outward, it does not compress inward. The expansion moves the shafts apart and the chain gets tighter. BTW, the thermal expansion coefficient of aluminum near room temperature is about twice that of steel, depending on what alloy of steel and aluminum we're talking about.

Sorry, I'm no engineer and can't prove it, but heck with the theories, I know what happens when they get hot, and the chain gets tighter. You can prove it to yourself by checking yours both hot and cold without making any adjustments. I'll leave the technical explanation to someone else.

--Chris

[pquirk]

I'm not here to prove anyone wrong. But from experience, the chain gets tighter when the engine gets hot. That is an observeable, known fact. It just happens. That's why the spec is tighter for when the bike is at operating temperature.

I can provide some other examples. When installing wheel bearings, you sometimes heat the aluminum wheel to make the HOLE larger. When you heat aluminum with a hole in the middle, the hole gets larger, not smaller, indicating to me that the aluminum does not expand in every direction, or if it does, it expands more outward than inward.

When the primary case (engine case on an XL) gets hot, the aluminum expands outward, it does not compress inward. The expansion moves the shafts apart and the chain gets tighter. BTW, the thermal expansion coefficient of aluminum near room temperature is about twice that of steel, depending on what alloy of steel and aluminum we're talking about.

Sorry, I'm no engineer and can't prove it, but heck with the theories, I know what happens when they get hot, and the chain gets tighter. You can prove it to yourself by checking yours both hot and cold without making any adjustments. I'll leave the technical explanation to someone else.

--ChrisI love this post. It reminded me of when I was in school. A bunch of my friends suffered through the "real physics" course and learned all the high falutin' formulas for things. I took "physics in everyday life" and learned how things actually work :laugh . Thanks for the chuckle.

[Gone]

The shop foreman at my dealer told me about this technique a few years ago. Alot easier than the manual instructs.

[Steve3888]

But that shop foreman was probably a line tech at one time. So he has been doing this on countless bikes. He has the trained ear. I am an MMI student my last instructor had us shooting for 3/8'' the common measurement.

[garbiker]

Just a thought?/ has any one tried to put there finger under the chain while running to see how much play you got??DUH??could happen . saw it on a running bike on a stand to check rear chain now he has no finger tip. ??????///need a disclamer on it . gar

[650brad]

I just adjusted my primary chain today using Hero's method. Works like a charm. I think I'll try it on my old BSA. I tried the factory method and it's a PITA. On both bikes.

[sprtrjl]

:luvsport Wow ! I thought I'd get some quick and easy instructions on adjusting my primary chain. I did't know there was so much controversy involved. I need to adjust mine. I'm not sure which method I'll use, probably a combination of both. One question: should I change the fluid before or after the adjustment?

[chrishajer]

Doesn't matter, and totally unrelated. If you drain it, then pull the inspection cover to fill it, you're right there to do the adjustment if you choose to check the free play on the chain.

--Chris

[hjay]

What do you mean by loading it up while idling?


hjay

[Buck8200]

Okay, I've been reading everything about the primary chain. I have the shop manual for my '02 Hugger. I know about the "book" way and the "guys" way of adjusting the primary chain. I just got done doing my 10K mile oil and tranny fluid changes. I took the small oval inspection cover off and saw my primary chain. According to the manual, it needs to get inspected and adjusted. My tranny runs great. No vibrations, good shifting, no problems. I really don't want to mess with the primary chain. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" My stupid question is, HOW DO YOU ACTUALLY ADJUST THE CHAIN. I looked inside through the small inspection hole and could see nothing to adjust.

[chrishajer]

There is a lock nut that holds a threaded adjuster on the bottom of the primary cover. Get down on your knees and take a peek. You'll see it, and it's also in the manual. You loosen the nut, thread the adjuster in to tighten the chain, then lock the nut down again. Just a little bit of adjustment there makes a big difference in chain tension. The screw actually pushes up on the bottom of the tension shoe, making the chain tighter as you turn the adjuster in.

--Chris

[Big_Baazzoo]

Excellent. I have adjusted the chain before, but wasn't sure of just how often I should do this. Once again, thanks XL Forum.

[GOTWA]

There is a lock nut that holds a threaded adjuster on the bottom of the primary cover. Get down on your knees and take a peek. You'll see it, and it's also in the manual. You loosen the nut, thread the adjuster in to tighten the chain, then lock the nut down again. Just a little bit of adjustment there makes a big difference in chain tension. The screw actually pushes up on the bottom of the tension shoe, making the chain tighter as you turn the adjuster in.

--Chris

Listen to Chris folks. It's extremely simple. I think way more is being made of this than necessary. To be honest, I'm not convinced you necessarily have to find the tightest spot given the play allowed.

[Buck8200]

Chris, Thanks for that. You know I have the shop manual. I actually do crack it open and read it...sometimes. But on this occasion I forgot to RTFM.

[paralegalpete]

Great Thread, I did my 8k service last month and didn't feel comfortable with the way I adjusted the P chain. Thanks all for the info.
My understanding is that its normal to have "fuss" on the drain magnet the very first time you change the fluid but that there should be less the next time.

[chrishajer]

Pete: that is true. You'll always have some goo on the magnetic drain plug. It tends to accumulate less and less after things break in.

--Chris

[davidcar]

Great tech tip, simple yet effective, thanks mate

[HOGDADDY]

My bike has always been kinda jerky at low speeds (which leads me to wonder if the stealer even checked it at 1000mi. service) so today while changing tranny fluid I thought the chain had way too much slack in it sitting cold so I gave it a small turn in and test-drive was an eye opener. My 05 xlc never shifted this good and it is happier at low speeds but I will listen closely just make sure.

[DougT]

Adjust the chain with the motor running? Turn the motor over using the rear wheel with the plugs removed to find the tight spot? Overtighten the chain and listen for the whine? Plastic covers so you can watch the chain run? Come on people, it ain't that complicated! With the engine cold and the trans in neutral, repeatedly bump the starter and check for a "tight spot" in the chain. When you find it, adjust the chain to spec. If you don't find a tight spot, and the chain slack is out of adjustment, then adjust it! It's just that simple!
DougT

[hooptygoo]

Ok, so all this talk of whinning has made my ears a bit more sensitive. While in neutral the bike doesn't whine nor does it whine when cruising at a steady speed. It does however make a noise that I think sounds like that siren that everyone has been talking about while decelerating from just about any speed in any gear. Is this normal?
Thanks for all the great info here folks!

[Tx_Trash]

The whine on deceleration that you’re talking about I experience also. But I could have swore that is was there prior to me adjusting the chain. I did both methods of adjustment (with and without motor running) and measured the tolerance via the manual. It all looks good. I find neutral easy, shifting is perfect. So my question is this, when the chain is to tight will there be a whine on acceleration?

:tour

[hero]

Ok, so all this talk of whinning has made my ears a bit more sensitive. While in neutral the bike doesn't whine nor does it whine when cruising at a steady speed. It does however make a noise that I think sounds like that siren that everyone has been talking about while decelerating from just about any speed in any gear. Is this normal?
Thanks for all the great info here folks!

A tight chain does sound very much like a siren, but is not limited to deceleration. Next time you hear it, give it a slight rev in neutral, or with the clutch engaged. If your siren-whine increases with engine speed, your chain is too tight.

Nice signature by the way.. :p

[hooptygoo]

Nice signature by the way.. :p

Damn! And I thought I was being unique. I promise I made that my sig before ever seeing it as yours. Not trying to copy or anything. Heck, I'll even change it if you like :doh

[skip3406]

I notice that torque spec of 14-30 ft-lbs for the drain plug in the service manual. But in the owners manual it is 14 to 21 ft-lbs. I have never seen torque vary that much before.

[davidcar]

Some one else here used this method, warm bike to operating temp (go for a ride), park bike on side stand, out of gear, remove primary chain inspection cover, start bike and let it idle, back off the adjuster till you see the chain flop around slightly, then tighten chain to the point were it just stops flopping around, tighten lock nut. Change primary oil. I used this method and my gear changes have never been better. IT'S PISS EASY AND WORKS GREAT!!!

[Moker]

gotta Q for you guys, since i got my bike back, when i let off the accelorator i can hear what appears to be the primary chain rattleing around.
sounds like a chain hitting metal, the continuous whirring.
i'm going to make sure they filled it up with fluid today, and i suppose something could have gotten messed up in the accident.
i suppose i'm asking, with the sound it's making, adjusting the primary should help..... correct?

[chrishajer]

Sounds like the primary chain is hitting the top of the primary case on deceleration. This happens when the chain gets loose, and an adjustment should take care of it. Probably not related to the accident at all, just more miles now than before.

Of course it can be something else, but start by checking the fluid and adjusting the chain if it's loose.

--Chris

[c pierce]

DOUG T i like your style :)

[Moker]

yup, not sure wtf

adjusted it, and works fine now. no more chain whirring on deceleration.

grassy ass

[sdjr]

I found that sticking a piece of clear packing tape over the hole works good with 0 mess

Do the same with the rocker box cover breather holes when taking off the tank...trust me on this one...

JR

[newtonpo]

has anyone tried the M6 primary chain spring loaded shoe i put one on my 05' 1200 roadster and have had good success with it using the lighter of the two springs provided it seemsto make shifting a little easier but the main reason i installed it was to keep the chain in constant adjustment

[doxbike]

My 5 K service is coming up. If my bike shifts perfectly, neutral is easy to find, and there is no XS whining, do I even need to adjust my primary??

[doxbike]

My 5 K service is coming up. If my bike shifts perfectly, neutral is easy to find, and there is no XS whining, do I even need to adjust my primary??:bump

[sprtrjl]

Just changed the fluid and adjusted the tensioner on mine using the "by sound" method. A lot of fluid was being thrown out by the chain. Possibly due to the short jiffy stand on the 1200C. Anyways took it for a quick ride seems ok. Gonna clean up take it for a little longer ride. will report back later.

[sprtrjl]

Test drive went fine, shifted better and quieter. Once you tun your ear into the "whine" you are looking for it is pretty easy.

[doxbike]

My 5 K service is coming up. If my bike shifts perfectly, neutral is easy to find, and there is no XS whining, do I even need to adjust my primary??:bump


Still no answer to my question? Any thoughts from those of you in the know?

Thanks

[Albie1200]

Still no answer to my question? Any thoughts from those of you in the know?

Thanks

Hey Bill,

Since you will have the inspection cover and derby cover off, you might as well check it. It will save you time and piece of mind if it starts rattling during a ride in the future. I would imagine it should be a little loose as it must stretch a little in the first few 1000 miles.

[spatial.hd]

Hey Bill,

Since you will have the inspection cover and derby cover off, you might as well check it. It will save you time and piece of mind if it starts rattling during a ride in the future. I would imagine it should be a little loose as it must stretch a little in the first few 1000 miles.

:iagree :clap

[doxbike]

I really don't need to take the derby cover off to change fluids, just the inspection cover, do I?. I haven't read the procedure in its entirety, but I think I can adjust the tension without removing the derby cover as well. But like you guys say, I might as well adjust it to raise my comfort level. Thanks for the input

[shameless]

Just wanna note that the tip from hero made the primary adjustment very easy for me as well. Rep was handed out graciously.:chtwo


I'm beginning to think my Clymer manual may be better used as shop rags.:doh

[doxbike]

Getting ready to do the 5K. Should I adjust the primary chain before or after the fluid change?

[Lone Wolf in Canada]

With the engine cold I removed the inspection cover and raised / lowered the chain with my finger to get a measurment. I adjusted it to 3/8" play and I have smooth shifts and easy neutral location.
I'm not clear on rotating the chain until I see a tight spot.
Did I do this OK?

[doxbike]

Since this is the first time I've adjusted the primary chain and since my hearing isn't what it used to be, I decided to try the FSM rather than Hero's method as I wasn't sure I'd be able to hear the "supercharger whine" when it was too tight. Maybe next time.

First get it into 5th gear, put it on a lift, remove the oblong inspection cover and the spark plugs and rotate the rear wheel. This still takes some mojo to get it turning. I found 2 or 3 spots the chain seemed tighter than others and these were the areas that I adjusted.

As close as I can tell the chain's side dimension is 3/8" (.375") using a dial caliper. The top of the chain is flush with the top of the inspection window, so I adjusted the chain till the bottom of the chain was flush with the top of the window-VIOLA 3/8" free play. I thought the procedure seen in the Fix my hog DVD using a metal ruler from the side seemed a little too subjective.

When all was said and done, I ended up tightening the adjustment bolt @ 1/4 turn. No noticable change in shifting than before I did the adjustment. I still have a slightly rougher shift from 1st to 2nd than the other shifts (unless I shift at a slighter higher RPM). Just getting ready to adjust the clutch cable, as there's a little too much free play at the lever, maybe this will solve the problem???

[doxbike]

For what it's worth, now that I knew where I think the primary chain should be adjusted, I marked the stud, then proceeded to increase the tension to see if I could hear the whine. I could, but as Hero noted, you can hear it better if you rev it a few times. I then backed it off till I couldn't hear it any more, then went another 1/8 turn as Hero suggested. Lo and behold, guess what- the mark I made was in exactly the same place. Guess I'll do it Hero's way in the future as long as my hearing doesn't get any worse.

Edit:

After riding for a few hours in town, and paying closer attention to the sound of the primary chain, I was able to discern a subtle difference in the noise, which presumably Hero was describing. I backed off the adjustment stud another 1/4 turn-the sound has totally disappeared and the "clunk" when shifting from 1st to 2nd (that's been there since the bike was new), is no longer evident. Neutral is still very easy to find. I think I'm a happy camper now.

The more I do on this bike, the more I realize what I don't know. But I'm learning.

[rick szymanski]

hero, i used your method tonight. loaded the tensioner till audible noise came in, revved it a little to verify noise, loosened off till noise went away, loosened 1/8 turn more, locked her down, test drove. may be my imagination, but the shifts seem cleaner....has 10,000 miles, last adjustment was at 3,000. took less than 15 minutes to do....7/8" wrench and 1/4" allen wrench is all it takes.

[MickDuprez]

I haven't tried it yet for adjusting the primary chain but it may be a handy tip none the less.

For hearing noises in your engine you can use a large screw driver as a stethoscope (or buy a proper mechanics one if you're keen).

Being careful where and how you place it (you don't want to get hurt or damage your bike!), with the engine running place the point of the driver on the case say and place your ear on the handle, works a treat and may be handy for this purpose for the harder of hearing.

WARNING!, you may also experience some other noises you didn't want to hear ;)

cheers,
Mick.

[Gone]

When measuring the chain, do you use the amount of slack down plus the amount up added together? I have allways used one or the other.The pic in the owners manual is kind of confusing. Also unless the chain is binding somewhere why should there be a tight spot??

[sportysrock]

I found there are some large differences in the chain slackness as you rotate it around. You really have to check for it. Some sections of links must stretch much more than others. I didn't readjust it at 10,00 miles like at 5,000 since it didn't need it.

[Gone]

I asume you adjust at the loosest point.

[TheForce]

No, you adjust at the tightest point.

[Gone]

Thanks for the Info.!!

[Alanfloe]

Racer X ...

I have no idea what year your bike is ... but you don't ever have to take that derby cover off (that large round cover that you stripped the screws out of)

If you have a 04-05, just drain out the tranny fluid after riding the bike. It's got to be hot. Remove the tranny drain plug and get up on it after it stops draining. Move the bike a little right of vertical and then straight up. A little more fluid will drain out. Take your time. Pretty soon, all of the fluid will be removed.

Remove the 2 screws that attach the oval shaped chain inspection cover. Put a plastic funnel in the hole and slowly add exactly 1 Qt of H-D Sport-Trans fluid. Replace the cover ... That's it.

BTW .. the tranny drain plug has a magnet attached to it ... get a rag and remove all the metalic "fuss" from the plug.

As far as adjusting the chain ... you don't remove the derby cover either ... it's done by checking the chain through that same oval shaped cover.

Bottom line ... you don't need to remove the pain in the ass derby cover!

I must be stupid :frownthre I never thought about that. I just followed the manual and take off left foot peg then derby cover ect. Time Comsuming.
Your Idea is great!
I Quess thats why I like this form.:clap

[rvguy]

It's also possible to adjust the chain with the engine running. Carefully load it up (at operating temp) while the bike is idling in neutral until you hear a slight whine. Then slowly back the adjuster off until the whine dissapears. For peace of mind, you can back the adjuster off a further 1/8th of a turn from this point, & then lock up the nut on the adjuster. Perfect noiseless shifts & no more missing gears...

One more fan here for this method.

"Hear the Force, Luke"

[Alanfloe]

I did the chain adjustment with it running. 10,000 miles on the bike. At first I adjusted counter clockwise all the way out and no chain slap and in ran good which was wierd. Then proceded to adjust the chain. I could here the whine but my hering must be real good because by the time I got it to where it had no whine I would check chain and it was out of spec (to loose).
I then tighten it a little more and I will check chain deflection today.

Checked the chain deflection cold and I realy could not find the tight spot but found a spot that was around 1/2 in. Seems good to me.

[ambulldogg]

i just hit 5300miles and am hearing weird noises and thought it was my clutch cable but after adjusting that i still am hearing that clancking noise so it has to be the chain. I ride my bike hard and the chain has to be getting loose! okay,?????????????? is this all right?
1. go for a ride
2. come back and put bike on stand
3. make sure bike is in neutral
4. remove oval cover
5. loosen bolt under primary cover to access tension allen bolt
6. start bike
7. tighten allen bolt till i hear whining
8. back off allen 1/4 turn and lock down the bolt
9. put oval cover back on
10. drink my Corona and then do burn-out in garage.?????

[ambulldogg]

SWEET! just got done doing the adjustment to the chain! VERY EASY!!! and is that whining noise almost like a car with a supercharger on it??

[Dragonis]

I've almost always used Hero's method of adjusting while running, but its always a good idea to actually shut off the bike and check the tension when you're done.

It dosen't take much of a turn, even a very loose chain should tighten up with only a half to three quarter turn of the adjuster bolt.

[BUELListic]

Gentlemen:

Let's talk about adjusting the PRIMARY CHAIN(engine cold) on a Sportster or a "TUBE FRAME" BUELL since we are talking about the same engine ...

Get the rear wheel off the ground, take the spark plugs out, and remove the INSPECTION COVER,chain ...

Loosen the NUT,sealing on the SCREW,adjuster(these are the names of the parts in the PARTS BOOK) and back it out little bit ...

Now put the transmission in 5th gear by rocking the rear wheel because if you do not it is possible to damage the shifter mechanisum ...

Screw in the adjuster screw and rotate the rear wheel untill you find the tight spot in the chain ...

When you find the tight spot, back out the adjust the screw adjuster until you have 3/4 inch play on the tight spot, tighten the lock nut and it is adjusted correctly ...

Now put evey thing back together ...

Now there are those that will say that is TOO LOOSE, well when the engine is at operating temperature it is not !!!

If it is tighter than this it pulls the motor sprocket and the clutch sprocket towards each other ...

Think about what a TOO TIGHT chain does to the affected parts ...

In BUELLing
LaFayette

[DieHard]

wait a min. the manual states 3/8 to 1/2 in cold and 1/4 to 3/8 hot now i do beleave 3/4 would be way way way to loose am i wrong or not

[BUELListic]

DieHard:

You are not wrong, "BUT" the FACTORY SERVICE MANUALS are wrong on the adjustment ...

The true way to find out that you are running your primary chain TOO TIGHT is to look at the ajuster shoe ....

If the chain is eating into the shoe it is beacuse the chain is TOO TIGHT ...

In BUELLing
LaFayette

[hooptygoo]

So, if you had to err one way or the other, would you say it's better to have the chain a tad on the tight or the loose side?

[BUELListic]

IMHO, 3/4 on an inch on the chain tight spot is the correct side ...

In BUELLing
LaFayette

[harahan1950]

Has anyone installed a Tom Hayden M-6 tensioner on a Sportster? What were your results with its use?

Thanks

[newtonpo]

thought i'd never hear those words...,i posted the same months ago,but got no play,i really think mine helped alot,particularly when shifting into first from a stop, and the constant proper adjustment,both under load,and when letting off the throttle, can't be bad for the drivetrain, i'd wager, i installed it myself, with no real issues, and haven't touched it since,(over a year),i think most new harleys now have a version of the same...,glad i installed it

[racerwill]

It's also possible to adjust the chain with the engine running. Carefully load it up (at operating temp) while the bike is idling in neutral until you hear a slight whine. Then slowly back the adjuster off until the whine dissapears. For peace of mind, you can back the adjuster off a further 1/8th of a turn from this point, & then lock up the nut on the adjuster. Perfect noiseless shifts & no more missing gears...

Heros method of adjusting while running is legendary and the easiest way to get it right everytime. I do it this way everytime




Ww

[buckhorns]

Getting ready to adjust primary chain today. Going to use Hero's " running while hot ", method. Sounds like a winner to me. Thanks much.:clap

[mrbreezeet1]

From what I get, No, he did say, " Carefully load it up (at operating temp) while the bike is idling in neutral"

[racerwill]

"carefully load it up " refers to gently adjusting it tighter and tighter until it starts to whine (you'll hear it) then slowly loosen it 'till all is right with the world..... if you remove the inspection cover you can watch the chain as it finds harmonic stability

Ww :smoke

[ALANXL1200RRR]

Stupid question of the day:

Where on earth is the tensioner allen bolt inside that little oval inspection cover?

[Roadster_Rider]

err, It's on the underside of the engine, the big one with the big nut on it serving as a locknut on it.

[Githianki]

Would the whine sound like a high pitched squeal? It comes and goes on mine, and I figure I am do for an adjustment.

[Avos]

hero ....

Now, that's the best tip I have heard in a loooong time!

When you say "load it up" ... do you mean hold the rear brake slightly while running it on a lift in gear ... maybe 1st gear would be best?

I'm just a little confused.

Thanks,
Ron
Greetings from New Zealand... of interest, do you know how much of a improvement in hp and torque your 04 XL 1222R develops. I have a standard 04 xl1200 that I would like to see an increase in performance. It is a nice ride but very tame in power compared to my slightly modified Suzuki M109 thats pulls 136hp@8200 rpm on a dyno. regards Anthony

[Avos]

hero ....

Now, that's the best tip I have heard in a loooong time!

When you say "load it up" ... do you mean hold the rear brake slightly while running it on a lift in gear ... maybe 1st gear would be best?

I'm just a little confused.

Thanks,
Ron
Greetings from New Zealand... of interest, do you know how much of a improvement in hp and torque your 04 XL 1222R develops over stock xl1200. I have a standard 04 xl1200 that I would like to see an increase in performance. It is a nice ride... but very tame in power compared to my slightly modified Suzuki M109 (1800cc V twin) :chopthats pulls 136hp@8200 rpm on a dyno. regards Anthony

[ed_in_az]

I finally did it!

I'm @ 21,000 miles and shifting has always been OK, but lately when the motor is cold there was more noise from the primary when grabbing or dropping the throttle quickly.

I used the "hero" method of adjusting by sound.

Notes:

Even with only one good ear the whine is easy to detect.

With the kick (jiffy) stand on a 2x4 block oil stiff splashes out BIG TIME from the inspection window. Used clear packing tape and it works good while still allowing a vew of the chain. Added 1.25 Oz of oil back in, just to be safe.

Before adjusting, just pulling the cover off, the chain had 1/2 to 3/4" slack. After backing off 1/2 turn from the whine zone and checking, it has 3/8". When the whine can be heard there is little or no up and down movement of the chain. Backed off 1/2 turn there is a little, probably 3/8" or less or shaking chain.

There might be a bit less motor noise than before adjustment. Shifting seems the same. I'm going to go for longer ride now:D. The real test will be when starting out on a cold motor. I adjusted it with the gauge reading 200 degrees so it was plenty warm.

[unicorn]

please tell me which one is the lock nut that holds a threaded adjuster on the bottom of the primary cover



[/IMG]There is a lock nut that holds a threaded adjuster on the bottom of the primary cover. Get down on your knees and take a peek. You'll see it, and it's also in the manual. You loosen the nut, thread the adjuster in to tighten the chain, then lock the nut down again. Just a little bit of adjustment there makes a big difference in chain tension. The screw actually pushes up on the bottom of the tension shoe, making the chain tighter as you turn the adjuster in.

--Chris

[Moved On / My Own Choice]

please tell me which one is the lock nut that holds a threaded adjuster on the bottom of the primary cover



Unicorn, are you asking WHICH is the locknut and threaded adjuster in THIS photo???

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c97/cjburr/1250conversion004-5.jpg

the answer - THE ONLY ONE IN THE PICTURE!

The hand is pointing to a HEX HEAD BOLT (the drain bolt for the primary/trans oil) - NOT A LOCK NUT!

If you look to the far left of the picture you will see a large NUT and a THREADED ADJUSTER (basically an allen key head bolt, but you can't see the hex key portion in the photo as it's on the inside of the shaft).

The NUT holds the threaded adjuster bolt in place (ergo the name LOCK nut).

Hope that helps,

kev

[unicorn]

Thanks alot Kev, I'll look for it tonoght...:clap

[CosmicHD]

Excellent string. I am coming up on my service interval and have never adjusted the chain. I feel confident now that this will be an easy service on my part, as well as less expensive since I will do it all myself.

[Blacktooth Grin]

I tried to do my adjustment with the engine running, but the chain was already too tight. The sound from the primary never changed as I was tightening the adjuster. I figured there was something wrong when the idle started to slow while I was tightening. I let the bike sit overnight and adjusted per the manual's recommendations. Lo and behold, everything was smoother than it has been since I got the bike and the first gear clunk was gone until everything was good and hot. I loosened the adjuster another 1/8th of a turn after I got home to see if the clunk goes away at operating temperature.

Adjusting with the engine running probably would have worked if I had taken the time to make a plexiglass inspection cover so I could have seen how little slop the chain had.

[schott1984]

Ok, so I changed the primary oil today with formula+, and wanted to adjust the primary chain considering I'm about to hit 5k miles. I left it running with the inspection cover on, the bike was hot, and tightened it 'til i just started to hear the whine, then backed it out until I couldn't hear it, then just a tad more to be safe. Rode it around, noticed I had a whine when I downshifted and let the engine wind down with the speed. I came back home and let it out some more, until I couldn't hear it while revving it and letting it wind down that way. Took a big ride today, and I can still hear a bit of a whine, but I also think the primary is too loose. When I'm cruising aruond in any gear other than first, and lightly blip the throttle, I can hear it go "clank clank".

So, I'm guessing you can't totally rid yourself of the whine without being too loose. Is a little whine ok? Because I've always had a whine since I got the bike while slowing down and downshifting. When I readjusted it the first time, it ended up a little tighter than it was originally, and seemed to shift nicer, but whined more, now it whines a bit less than originally, but seems to shift sloppy and clanks a bit.

[TheForce]

I have an 06 883 and it has always had a whine whenever I downshift or coast. I'd say you are okay in your initial adjustment when it was shifting correctly.

[A_Ride_4_ever]

This should be a Sticky, There is a LOT of great tips in here. Mabie a General Tips section would go well. I know theres a paid section, Is there already one there ?

[murphyslaw]

This site rocks, I have been cheaping out on buying a service manuel. after doing this its no longer a CLUNK is just a click. so sweet so sweet. now only another hr to kill before my dealer opens so I can go get some stuff.

[mrbreezeet1]

Well I adjusted mine today with the motor running, later tonight or tomorrow I'll pull the inspection cover and see where the chain is, play wise.
Did want to mention, as far as dumping a full quart in the primary, the last time I did that, I had a oil leak, traced it down to the vent tube.
After about 200-300 miles, the leak was gone.
The hog doctor (Pat) at yahoo told me to fill it a few oz's shy of a quart next time.
Tony

[mrbreezeet1]

i measured the distance the pin holding the links changed when pushed up and down. it is the amount up plus the amount down added together to get the 3/8 to 1/2 cold.
Yes, amount up plus the amount down added together.
Tony

[mrbreezeet1]

Well I adjusted mine today with the motor running, later tonight or tomorrow I'll pull the inspection cover and see where the chain is, play wise.
Tony

Seems to be just about right.
Didn't get real crazy trying to fing the tightest spot, just bumbed it around 2-3 times and check it(cold) looked to be 3/8"-1/2"
Tony

[Hamdog]

Tried your method to adjust primary chain. It works like a charm. Smooth and breezy, nice and easy. Thanks!

[hero]

Glad to see that there's still some value in this- I'm happy to have helped!

I do miss that bike & all you guys!

[NebuK]

Hi,

my question may sound a bit dumb, but i seem to be unable to see the adjuster-screw. First thing thats a bit strange is that on my 99' Sporty Custom the "tightening screw" at the bottom of the primary cover just next to the sidestand is ... huuuuge, i mean - in the service manual theres a really small screw pictures, mine is unbelievably big.

Next thing is that when i open the small round cover i can see the chain happily spinning and wobbling around (probably way too much). The problem is, there are 3 screws in there i can see - and none is at a position where i would want to stick a wrench in for turning when the chain is spinning. Also the one that is the "most accessible" is quite a bit to the right so i need to insert the wrench quite crooked (right word? sorry, bad english striking back ;P) to the right.

Am i blind, just too scared of the chain hitting my wrench whenever i need to adjust the screw while having the bike running, or what am i missing here?

Thanks in Advance
- Dario

[radeschultz]

Hi Dario... I am sure that none of us want to see you sticking a wrench into the inspection opening while the chain is spinning around :wonderlan ...the adjustment is NOT in there. I think Kev M's Picture here is pretty clear...hope this helps...


Hi,

my question may sound a bit dumb, but i seem to be unable to see the adjuster-screw. First thing thats a bit strange is that on my 99' Sporty Custom the "tightening screw" at the bottom of the primary cover just next to the sidestand is ... huuuuge, i mean - in the service manual theres a really small screw pictures, mine is unbelievably big.

Next thing is that when i open the small round cover i can see the chain happily spinning and wobbling around (probably way too much). The problem is, there are 3 screws in there i can see - and none is at a position where i would want to stick a wrench in for turning when the chain is spinning. Also the one that is the "most accessible" is quite a bit to the right so i need to insert the wrench quite crooked (right word? sorry, bad english striking back ;P) to the right.

Am i blind, just too scared of the chain hitting my wrench whenever i need to adjust the screw while having the bike running, or what am i missing here?

Thanks in Advance
- Dario

Unicorn, are you asking WHICH is the locknut and threaded adjuster in THIS photo???

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c97/cjburr/1250conversion004-5.jpg

the answer - THE ONLY ONE IN THE PICTURE!

The hand is pointing to a HEX HEAD BOLT (the drain bolt for the primary/trans oil) - NOT A LOCK NUT!

If you look to the far left of the picture you will see a large NUT and a THREADED ADJUSTER (basically an allen key head bolt, but you can't see the hex key portion in the photo as it's on the inside of the shaft).

The NUT holds the threaded adjuster bolt in place (ergo the name LOCK nut).

Hope that helps,

kev

[NebuK]

Ah, now, i think i finally got it. Gotta check it later - if i got it right the big nut secures the threaded screw. INSIDE the bottom of the threaded screw there is a hex $FORGOT_WORD which i have to turn

[grindbastard]

Ah, now, i think i finally got it. Gotta check it later - if i got it right the big nut secures the threaded screw. INSIDE the bottom of the threaded screw there is a hex $FORGOT_WORD which i have to turn

$FORGOT_WORD :shhhh

ixnay on the oltbay.

[NebuK]

Hey,

just did it, had to keep the inspection cover closed most of the time since a hilarious amount of oil would spill out (like, 50ml in 20sec). i'm not really sure whether i've hit the right spot or not. hearing the chain hitting the housing and that famous "whine" were only a 3/4 turn apart of each other, i've set it about 1/4 back from the point where i *think* the whining starts (hard to determine when the engines running ;P). the sounds from primary are now - especially in low revs - much more pleasant than before, but still there.

[thesatchmanrules]

Hello Ya'll -

The only way I can adjust mine is to have it running, when I loosen the chain, there is a grinding sound (Man-u-al states 3/8 to a half slack) if I tighten it up (can't seem to get the "whine") to stop the grinding noise, the chain has no slack at all. It appears to run okay, but it appears hotter than it should be to me, and I just started noticing a "new" vibration at particular RPMs on de-acceleration (lol - Can't hear it when I am accelerating :) ) Has anyone seen this? Think maybe there is a bearing gone? I am going to take the cover off and inspect the insides, also bought the kit to replace the shoe. THanks in advance for any help!!!!

[semjpm]

If the shoe is heavily grooved, like mine was, you will get this symptom.

SEMJPM

[thesatchmanrules]

Thanks.....sadly..I am taking the poor girl apart tonight when I get home, but I have the kit with the shoe, gaskets, fluid, so hopefully this is what I will find and will have my knees in the breeze.. Thanks a lot for the help, I will post out what I find tonight or tomorrow. Later!

[thesatchmanrules]

Well, I got it apart and the shoe wasn't worn much at all. Called a buddy of mine over and we found that the main bearing behind the clutch basket had a little bit of play. Took apart the clutch and the bearing had some roughness to it. Hopefully this is the beast that was causing the isssue. To me it sounded like the chain hitting the casing but the casing was unscathed. At work now, trusty girlfriend picking up the bearing, will post tomorrow or next week on the results.

Later!

[Moved On / My Own Choice]

Well, I got it apart and the shoe wasn't worn much at all. Called a buddy of mine over and we found that the main bearing behind the clutch basket had a little bit of play. Took apart the clutch and the bearing had some roughness to it. Hopefully this is the beast that was causing the isssue. To me it sounded like the chain hitting the casing but the casing was unscathed. At work now, trusty girlfriend picking up the bearing, will post tomorrow or next week on the results.

Later!

Ya do know that the bearing in question usually fails because of an misadjusted chain right? i.e. too tight a chain puts too great a side-load on it.

[thesatchmanrules]

When I first got the bike I replaced all the fluids and took the derby cover off (had to drill all four bolts originally, and two last night) to adjust the clutch and was never able to get any slack in the chain from day one..

The only way I could get the grinding noise to stop was to tighten it up. I just recently started hearing a new "vibration" and thought...maybe I should look back into this problem :)....So long story short.... I think this has been an issue for a long time.

It sat for about 3 years covered with a tarp outside. I actually bought it out of a snow bank, only able to see the wheels and the casings after digging the snow out...lots of hard work and few dollars and she is gleamin meanie. I have put about 9000 miles on it and this is really the only issue I have had except the petcock getting hosed up and replaced and the electronic speedo ate itself..but that is another story. Thanks for the heads up..I was a little sad to find the stock (I assume?) bearing stamped "made in Japan"...

Such is life.......

[thesatchmanrules]

Hey,

Well the best part is she is all back together and shifting better than ever with no noises, or vibrations what so ever.

The sad point is that I should have resolved the issue 9000 miles ago, then it would not have sideloaded/destroyed the main bearing in the clutch basket.

The original issue (not being able to adujst the primary without it being tight), and what was causing the grinding noise was the two dang bolts in that hold the inspection cover on...yeah, I know....HOW THE HECK COULD I HAVE MISSED THAT!! Well, I am new to HDs, and did not have a manual at the time that I changed all the oils etc, and it ran just fine with the belt tight so I just never realized that it was an issue until I finally toasted the bearing in the clutch basket and started getting these weird vibrations. Once I got it all back together, we went around with a screwdriver on the primary and found the colprits...ground the bolts down and surprize, surprize, surprize, the grinding noise went away and the belt has the 3/8 to a half clearance. Also to note, even though I had it that tight, the shoe was barely worn at all, I replaced it any hoots. Not sure who was monkeying around with those bolts before I bought it, but I am sure they were not stock.....l

So, morale of the story is....fix it right the first time :D, thanks for the help and I hope this helps someone else down the line. Later!!!!

[DaveInPA]

Here's my stupid question. So, when it says to adjust it to 3/8" slack or whatever, how exactly do you actually measure the slack in the chain?

[A_Ride_4_ever]

defiantly not a stupid question, most will eyeball it, you can also use a ruler its 3/8"th of tight, , HD sells a tool as well as others that allow you to measure the slack. Its a bit expensive if your not doing it on a regular basis. There are some really good threads here that tell you exactly how to do it by listening to the chain. Having the chain to tight is really bad for the engine and having it to loose will make the bike feel like its lashing as well as the awful noises that can come out of it..lol I'm sure someone here can come up with other ways of measuring the 3/8th If its warranted take it in to HD, I did that with my 08 and they took care of it for free while I waited. not all dealers are like that though :-( :censor

[doxbike]

Here's my stupid question. So, when it says to adjust it to 3/8" slack or whatever, how exactly do you actually measure the slack in the chain?

Use an open end wrench of the dimension you want. Hold the bottom of the slot at the top of the chain and then lift the chain till the top of chain meets the top of the slot.

Or use the Hero method (post #7) in this thread-works great even with my diminished hearing

[harleyhornet]

Well I tried Hero's method, way way too much oil pouring out of the inspection hole, and couldn't really hear anything over the exhaust noise, kinda hard to make the adjustments with all that hot oil pouring onto my hands anyway so I think Ill stick to the factory method.

[doxbike]

Well I tried Hero's method, way way too much oil pouring out of the inspection hole, and couldn't really hear anything over the exhaust noise, kinda hard to make the adjustments with all that hot oil pouring onto my hands anyway so I think Ill stick to the factory method.

You don't need to remove the inspection cover with Hero's method

[harleyhornet]

Thanks, Id really like to use heros method , in theory it seems like the best way, my hearing isn't that acute anymore Ill bet one of those automotive stethiscopes would work.

[justin marois]

I have a problem similar to thesatchmanrules. Except the play is in the front shaft (don't know if it's the cam shaft or crank shaft) instead of the clutch shaft. When i tight the chain, the noise disappear. Did a little play is normal on the front shaft? Did this little play is enough to cause this hard sound in the primary cover? Is it a hard job to pull this bearing out?
Thank's for your help and sorry to be so dumb.
Take care.

[doxbike]

Thanks, Id really like to use heros method , in theory it seems like the best way, my hearing isn't that acute anymore Ill bet one of those automotive stethiscopes would work.

Harley, I was a little apprehensive as my hearing sucks after years of shooting and riding the Harley, but I was able to hear the "supercharger whine" readily. Being pessimistic by nature I verified the free play in the conventional manner to increase my comfort level. Dead on!

[Costeve]

If I remember it's a 1/4 Allen and 7/8 wrench. Sounds like if you snug the nut back up it should be close to where you started, then hold the Allen while loosening the nut.

I did the reverse to tighten it up. Adjusted chain, held Allen Bolt, Snugged nut, and finish torqued nut to spec.

Good luck.

Anytone have a photo of the tensioner? I have looked and I must be really missing the boat here you guys...

[River Runner]

202 posts - so what's one more:)

My experience:
Adjusted per the book. Up on stand remove plugs,fifth gear, spin wheel...check, spin wheel check, adjust. I never found any noticeable differences in tension at different spots along the chain. It was pretty sloppy when I started and I tightened to between 3/8 & 1/2 and inch of play and went for a ride. Wow, after a while I noticed it was really whining on deceleration. The only time I did not notice a whine was when I was accelerating. I did a search and found this post and another describing the whining on deceleration which even has a poll and a majority claim that this is a normal in their experience?!?!? I warmed it up tonight until the whine started then I adjusted using the "hero" method backing it off until the whine was gone, then a little extra to be sure. Test ride and all is good!! Popped the cover out of curiosity and the tension was only a bit less than where I had it by the book method. Hot it was all of a 1/2 inch, I'll check it cold later to see how much of a difference that is.
Great place, this is. Of course, I wished I'd looked here first before making the adjustment, A lot of time could have been saved!!

[Titus Pullo]

Anytone have a photo of the tensioner? I have looked and I must be really missing the boat here you guys...

A very nice photo of it is in this thread. I'm going to do this DIY very soon.

[Little_Dave]

I fitted a Hayden M6 about a week ago, seems smoother when riding, but neutral from 1st is virtually impossible. What i have been doing since I first got the m/c 6 years ago, is sart her up in gear with the clutch in, I have no real problems shifting gearbut since i got the bike finding neutral when the engine was running wa sa pig, if I'm in 2nd I can get it coasting to a halt. If I'm stopped I can lightly tap it from 2nd, but too hard and she goes into 1st, then back into 2nd and try again! As I triked the bike and opened her to 1200 last year, I fitted a set of 19 plates instead of the 14 plates in the standard clutch, below is a pic of the clutch. The Hayden M6 can be fitted without taking off the chain, it's a bit futery, but easier than fitting a Big Twin tensioner.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y148/1961littledave/P4110009.jpg

[Little_Dave]

Anytone have a photo of the tensioner? I have looked and I must be really missing the boat here you guys...
I nipped out to the garage and took a quick pic of the original tensioner. I hope this is a help to you. The M6 is different.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y148/1961littledave/P4250012.jpg

[PatGoFast]

As this is my first bike, I don't know what a primary chain sounds like when it is out of spec, but when I hit the top end of a gear, get off the throttle, and pull in the clutch it sounds like a tin can full of nails getting shook. After reading this thread I went right to the garage when I got home from work (an hour drive, good and hot) and tried the Heros method. Easy as pie. I too removed the cover when I was finish to double check and sure enough the was no reason to be sceptical. THANKS HEROS.

Well I went for a half hour ride. Everything sounded good again. Next day, Driving to work, its making the same noise again, worse than before. I read the other threads about the bearing, but My bike hasn't even hit 5K miles yet, dealer did all the engine work before I picked it up, and did the 1k mile service. Other than that its only needed oil changed. WTF. Any ideas what could be causing it. I'm starting to get worried.

[XLFREAK]

Hi Just adding this to my Thing.

[jimmyess333]

How do you know when the chain is too stretched?
Does the adjuster not have much adjustment left?

Also, how do you know when it's time for a new shoe?
Do you just replace it when you replace the chain?

Lastly, has anyone had any luck with the automatic adjusters?
I won't tear it apart just to put an automatic shoe in there but I'm considering it for when replacement is required.

Thanks

[Little_Dave]

As this is my first bike, I don't know what a primary chain sounds like when it is out of spec, but when I hit the top end of a gear, get off the throttle, and pull in the clutch it sounds like a tin can full of nails getting shook. After reading this thread I went right to the garage when I got home from work (an hour drive, good and hot) and tried the Heros method. Easy as pie. I too removed the cover when I was finish to double check and sure enough the was no reason to be sceptical. THANKS HEROS.

Well I went for a half hour ride. Everything sounded good again. Next day, Driving to work, its making the same noise again, worse than before. I read the other threads about the bearing, but My bike hasn't even hit 5K miles yet, dealer did all the engine work before I picked it up, and did the 1k mile service. Other than that its only needed oil changed. WTF. Any ideas what could be causing it. I'm starting to get worried.

I would have a serious look at the clutch as well as the tensioner, it may pay you to take the cover off and have a serious look around. It's not a hard job, just make sure you get a piece of cardboard and draw the rough shape of the cover on it and then as you take the screws out, put them in order, as some are of different length. A new gasket is cheap enough from an indy.

[Titus Pullo]

Can the primary gasket be re-used? I'm dying to take off the primary cover since I started having shifting issues. I want to check that detent (everyone speaks of) and spring. Does the clutch basket have to be removed to replace the detent? How many detents are there? (detent plate......detent follower.....detent?)

TIA.

[jimmyess333]

Can the primary gasket be re-used?
TIA.

I wouldn't reuse a case gasket.
For the price of a gasket it's not worth the headache if it leaks.

[Titus Pullo]

Thanks Jimmy.......I will get a new gasket.

I did some more reading up and realize that the clutch basket must be removed to examine the detent. Can someone please tell me the size of the nut on the front shaft and the clutch basket. To remove the clutch basket........is it true that only some snap rings need to be removed and the entire assembly slides out?

[Jason's Sporty]

Yes there are two snap rings to remove to get the entire basket out. The first one is the clutch spring one. You need to get a clutch spring compressor. That flat spring is under serious pressure. I made one my self out of a 3/8" flat bar and the bearing race out of a late model chevy rear axle. The second one just requires a snap ring tool set to open as you squeeze the handles. That second one is a pure pita make sure you have a brand name tool the cheap crap will just break.

Also get a manual it will save you ass loads of time and trouble.

[Titus Pullo]

Yes there are two snap rings to remove to get the entire basket out. The first one is the clutch spring one. You need to get a clutch spring compressor. That flat spring is under serious pressure. I made one my self out of a 3/8" flat bar and the bearing race out of a late model chevy rear axle. The second one just requires a snap ring tool set to open as you squeeze the handles. That second one is a pure pita make sure you have a brand name tool the cheap crap will just break.

Also get a manual it will save you ass loads of time and trouble.

If I want to remove the entire clutch basket assembly as a whole along with the front sprocket (chain attached)........do I really need a clutch spring compressor.

I have a Factory Harley Manual. I have to honest and say it quite vague. Lots of pictures but vague procedural information. Perhaps I need to get a Clymer's.

[jimmyess333]

I've always liked the Clymer's manuals. Though they don't cover as much as the factory manual I feel they explain what they do cover better.
Sometimes the factory manual expects you to know things you can't the first time around.
So, I find myself referencing both when I'm not sure.

[A_Ride_4_ever]

clymers isn't much better. I just looked and its about the same info. :smoke

[Titus Pullo]

clymers isn't much better. I just looked and its about the same info. :smoke

Thanks for saving me the $30. Maybe I'll try to get an internship at my local H-D dealer.

[XLFREAK]

Thanks for saving me the $30. Maybe I'll try to get an internship at my local H-D dealer.

You Don't want to do that either. Most lack creativity and electrical knowledge. The HD course only teaches them wht HD wants them to know and forgets the ideal of custom. Best bet is to go to the jr college take an engines class, learn everything you can, ask lots of questions, read the manuals, and the best of all is experience! And wrenching on birds isn't for everyone there are alot of folks trying to do things they are not capable of doing. Yet somehow or someone told them they can cause they think the are mechanical or they are trying to save a buck or two. Experience is key. So if you got a buddy who knows about working on engines grab a six pack go over to his house one day while he is wrenching on his bike and ask loots of questions. Ask him if he can show you lil tid bits. and when it comes time to do it yourself have him walk you through it.

[johnnybgood]

I have a Factory Harley Manual. I have to honest and say it quite vague. Lots of pictures but vague procedural information. Perhaps I need to get a Clymer's.

Harley manuals are, hands down, better than any manual I've ever seen. Just my opinion.

John

[Titus Pullo]

Harley manuals are, hands down, better than any manual I've ever seen. Just my opinion.

John

Its been 18 years since my Harley manual was printed. Maybe they have gotten better. I dunno? :confused:

[Little_Dave]

With regard to the clutch basket removal, you will need a clutch spring compressor, when I changed my plates (see previous reply), I borrowed one from my local indy, the Harley ones I've seen on the US website are about $70-80 to buy. Here in the UK I can borrow off of my HDRCGB who have a tool loan scheme. If you are going to do a fair bit of work on the bike, then it could be worth your while buying one, but I would try borrowing one first, as a previous chap has said, "They are under a lot of tension!" If the bits came off inadverdantly, it could cause serious damage to your anatomy! :o As to the tensioner wear, it can be seen, after you take the cover off, mine after 15,000 miles had a few marks on it but it wasn't bad at all. When putting on the gasket, (new one) even though it has holes to hold it on where the cover is spigoted, I smear grease on the face of the chaincase to hold the gasket in place until all the screws are in and evenly screwed up. Hope this helps, good luck!:tour

[jimmyess333]

Thanks for the info Dave!

[92Chopster]

i think he means you leave it in neutral and slowly rev the engine till u hear the chain whine, then back the adjuster till it stops +1/8"

[steveb71]

I've always liked the Clymer's manuals. Though they don't cover as much as the factory manual I feel they explain what they do cover better.
Sometimes the factory manual expects you to know things you can't the first time around.
So, I find myself referencing both when I'm not sure.

Your definatly better served having both manuals on hand for reference. That, and the parts book to complete the triligoy.:)

[RabanJr]

I adjusted my primary using Hero's method. On my test ride I noticed That the tie fighter sound on decelleration was gone but a new vibration on my footpegs was felt at around 65 in fifth. Enough to tickle my feet with my boots on. Could this mean too loose?

Also, I did not really get a siren like whir but more of a moan. When the moan started I backed off and just a bit more.

Thanks

[Titus Pullo]

If it was loose....you could see it flopping in the inspection window......and you can also hear it. Make sure the bike is hot (drive it around at good speeds for a few miles) when using Hero's method.

The sound can be described as a moan.

[RabanJr]

Great. There was no flopping of the chain and the bike was at operating temp.
I thought that maybe the peg vibe was caused by looseness.

We'll keep on looking.

[adrenalinefreak168]

The last thing you want to do is put it on a lift with it in gear and not moving.. Reason why is that all you would be doing is wearing your clutch down and very rapidly. i think what he meant by loading up is off idle or increase rpm. the correct measuremnt for primary chain is exactly the same as height of chain when cold. So if you can move the chain upward the height of the chain link your in business but you do have to pull cover again and would most likely be unable to do correctly with cover on and bike running. too tight and chain is toast and too loose chain grinds primary
Also if too tight it is harder to find nuetral when running

[Terry Emrick]

I still get slap against the outer cover with the tightest section of the chain adjusted to 5/8 inch play. Can I tighten it to 3/8 inch play at the tightest? It is a 1974 Ironhead that appears to be a new motor and chain.

Thanks for the help.

[dat42]

Does Hero's method work on 2007+? I tried it - kept increasing tension but couldn't hear the whine. Had turned the wrench almost a whole turn and then got scared that I might overdo it and break something so I backed off - tried adjusting/measuring cold. I don't think I have it right though since I can still here a little chain flap.

[93customsporty]

3/8th when hot and 1/2" when cold are your measurments. You want to check the chain tension at various spots. Adjust it at the tightest spot. Ride for about 20 miles and then recheck. Also just changed the primary drive chain and installed a factory tensioner. The aftermarket one, The spring was broken between the nylon shoe and the metal plate. Would not recomend the cheap ones. The factory tensioner does not have a spring and works great. My shifting is alot smoother and now goes into neutral nicely!

[ChicagoWiz]

I wanted to add my endorsement of the audible method. After I got back my scoot from the dealership after getting the starter clutch replaced, I noticed a moaning whine that was clearly distinct from the normal sounds of the bike. It also felt different when shifting - rough I guess is how I would describe it.

I did the Hero method, and that moaning whine was the belt adjusted too tight. I tightened it further to verify that it was the same sound, then backed it off per instructions and took a ride. Wow. Such a difference. Smooth shifts, bike feels like it used to and maybe a touch better. Not sure why they tightened it so much, but after having heard this whine for a couple of rides, I can recognize it in a heartbeat.

Don't be afraid to tighten it enough so you can hear this moaning whine. It is a distinct noise that you can make out over the normal rattle and rumble of the engine - at least for my 2005 XL1200C.

[frankjc]

Good info here. I will be adjusting my chain soon.
Also is neutral being a little tricky to find a symptom of the chain being out of adjustment?

[A_Ride_4_ever]

Yes works with 07-09 for sure, I cant say for 10-11 though as I haven't seen one up close.

Does Hero's method work on 2007+? I tried it - kept increasing tension but couldn't hear the whine. Had turned the wrench almost a whole turn and then got scared that I might overdo it and break something so I backed off - tried adjusting/measuring cold. I don't think I have it right though since I can still here a little chain flap.

[A_Ride_4_ever]

I found that when my 08 was new finding neutral was difficult, at around the 5 k mark it was easier but when I hit 12k it was difficult. I found that it was to loose, gave it a quick tighten 1/4 turn and neutral was easier to find then.

I can understand the apprehension some of the members have about doing this, some PPl look at the bike as a complicated piece of kit and don't know yet that the motor is rather simple. For those who have ridden there HD for a few thousand miles and listened to it they should hear and feel the differences in there engines.
a god place to optimize the sound is to park the bike beside a slab wall ( think hand ball court) with the left side facing it, the sound should resonate better allowing you to hear the subtle differences when you adjust the tensioner. For those that have an android based phone, you can grab a free app that allows you to boost and amplify sounds by frequency. headphone and the prog will allow u to hear the sounds.

[bitpusher]

ok, so I gave Hero's whine method a shot and have a few questions:

When we talk about 'whine', there seems to be a slight whirring when the chain has enough slack to not be slapping. As I say, it is slight and to an unexperienced guy like me would be expected from the machinery spinning.

When I tighten it the whirring gains volume and begins to modulate and could be said to resemble a 'siren' sound that I have heard mentioned and I can imagine that this is the result of side pressure on the bearings.

If I loosen until the siren AND the slight whine or whirring is gone the chain is slack and slapping and lashing on acceleration.

I have not pulled enough cover to check the shoe for wear but before I do the question is: Am I looking to eliminate just the louder, modulating siren whine and the slight ambient whir is normal or do I not want any feedback from the primary and clutch indicating that I have undue shoe wear?

Thanks...

[ChicagoWiz]

@bitpusher - for me, it was that audible whine, the siren as you put it. There's always going to be a noise, it's never totally quiet. At least on my '05 XL1200C.

[ShadenGheist]

@bitpusher - for me, it was that audible whine, the siren as you put it. There's always going to be a noise, it's never totally quiet. At least on my '05 XL1200C.

Ditto. I just did mine this weekend. Just get rid of the obnoxious whine, there's always going to be a bit of whining coming from the primary. It's nature of the beast.:smoke

[rtbrannon]

how do you tell by riding it if it needs tightening or loosening

[TheDinglepuss]

Two things:

1-Adjusted my primary using Hero’s “Whine Method” It worked like a charm. Thanks Hero!

2-As far as why the chain tightens when it gets hotter, here’s my theory: We all know metal expands when heated, but not all metal expands at the same rate or at the same temperature. My guess is that the gears the chain rides on either expand more or at a lower temperature than the chain does, thus tightening the chain.

[A_Ride_4_ever]

Just a heads up if anyone is interested, I was able to pickup a hydraulic primary adjuster for $42 on e-bay NIB It includes a shoe and place for 2004-2012 I installed in on my wife 08 1200r and all I can say is wow. much quieter and not nearly as much vibration after it get hot. Its the same part as J&P's $140.00 kit but w/o the extra fit for the older bikes. It might be worth checking out if you don't mind taking the primary cover off. Only mistake I made was buying the gasket kit for the primary off of the same seller. It was not a good set and seems to thin.

[adequ001]

I'm going to give this adjustment a try sometime this week...

So if I understand correctly, if I have a hard time finding neutral - which I do - my chain is too loose? Most times I look like an idiot trying to shift into neutral...

My 08 Nightster has about 3600 miles on it - I never had the 1k service. Safe to assume that I will definitely need to tighten it up a bit?

Any recommendations for the replacement of the fluid?

[milmat1]

I'm going to give this adjustment a try sometime this week...

So if I understand correctly, if I have a hard time finding neutral - which I do - my chain is too loose? Most times I look like an idiot trying to shift into neutral...

My 08 Nightster has about 3600 miles on it - I never had the 1k service. Safe to assume that I will definitely need to tighten it up a bit?


Any recommendations for the replacement of the fluid?


OK, First Yea the trouble finding Neutral could be related to the primary chain adjustment, But could be several things...

You say it DID NOT have a 1K service ?? None AT All ?? Thats the most important service of all because it is the Breakin period !

So has the oil / primary oil even been changed ??

Your worrying me Dude......LOL

[adequ001]

OK, First Yea the trouble finding Neutral could be related to the primary chain adjustment, But could be several things...

You say it DID NOT have a 1K service ?? None AT All ?? Thats the most important service of all because it is the Breakin period !

So has the oil / primary oil even been changed ??

Your worrying me Dude......LOL

I can't justify spending the $300 for the service. How hard could it be...? But yes, in all seriousness, no 1k service. I know it needs it though.

[rjg883c]

I can't justify spending the $300 for the service. How hard could it be...? But yes, in all seriousness, no 1k service. I know it needs it though.

It is not too hard. You will be getting a lot of posts to tell you to "get a manual". And while that is not a bad idea, it is the first purchase I make after getting a new scooter, there are many threads/posts here that cover the subject.

You should look them up and at least change your oils.

Ron

[adequ001]

It is not too hard. You will be getting a lot of posts to tell you to "get a manual". And while that is not a bad idea, it is the first purchase I make after getting a new scooter, there are many threads/posts here that cover the subject.

You should look them up and at least change your oils.

Ron

I've changed the engine oil already - just not the tranny or primary or whatever it's called. I just ordered the manual, just waiting on it.

[milmat1]

The Manual is the best money you will ever spend on your bike. You can do your own 1K Service for less than 100 bucks and that includes buying the few tools you'll need !
The Manual outlines everything that needs done. Its basicaly changing the fluids filter, Checking the primary chain adj. Clean the air filter, Checking everything for loose bolts nuts etc,, lubing the cables etc..
As You can tell its a great moneymaker for the dealership, They have 20.00 in parts and an hour of work and they get you for 300 Bucks !!

[adequ001]

They have 20.00 in parts and an hour of work and they get you for 300 Bucks !!

Exactly. I have better things to spend my money on.