I've been using a new Ram-Flow air cleaner for about a week now on my '96 1200 S. I also have an SE II unit and a Nallin Hurricane 3" with the offset. Been happy with the Nallin as it's a beautifully made piece and works well but even with the offset it still hits my knee unless I make a concentrated effort to avoid the ham can. I know after owning 3 Sportys I am supposed to be over this but in my mind I knew there had to be an answer that I thought looked right on my bike. I know the Forcewinder units give the proper clearance but they never looked right on my rides. They always looked like plumbing-gone-awry to my eye. Well I have now found my answer. On Ebay several weeks ago I saw the Ram-Flo units being offered and I ended up purchasing one. They were offered both with and without the breather and mounting hardware kit which I already had because of owning the Hurricane. So I bought the unit based primarily on looks from the pic on Ebay and I am utterly happy! The unit is black oiled foam in a chrome basket with a chrome metal backing plate which sets off my black Sporty nicely. The foam can be replaced with several colors, as well. Supposed to flow 400cfm (They make a 600cfm unit as well.) and I could not detect a performance hit after switching out the 3" Hurricane. I am at stage 1.5 so it might be different if I had a stroker or wild camming. Sounds like a nice low restriction A/C with that swoosh I love to hear when you crack the throttle.
It's really a simple, lightweight, and classy A/C that just happens to give me great knee clearance. What more can you ask for. THe individual pieces that come with the A/C are not terribly heavy duty, but they are plenty strong for the task at hand. And who's bike couldn't stand to lose a pound or two, anyway! Here is a link to their website with some photos of the Ram-Flo units and the various accessories that go with them.
http://www.trak-tek.com/index.html
The unit I bought was a bit cheaper via the Ebay auction route. I am not affiliated with the company in any way except as a satisfied customer. Feel free to ask about the installation or the unit. The installation was a breeze and it sure shows off the cylinders better than that ham can!!!!
Thanks for listening.
Jim

Tried it in any serious rain yet? Just curious how well it deals with water.

Haven't tried it in pouring rain. I had the same question about the 3" Nallin with the exposed element. My guess is very hard rain would be picked up by the filtering foam and most, because the oiled foam doesn't really absorb well, would drip out but some moisture would probably be sucked into the intake. Probably wouldn't hurt anything but a shot of carb cleaner or WD40 in the intake after a ride would be in order.
I'd be curious what others with aftermarket A/C's (forcewinder, ramcharger, etc) do in the pouring rain. What about the water that works it's way around the sides and bottom of the ham can when it pours?
Jim

What a fantastic website! I like just about everything they have there! omg!

The Ram-Flo's look cool. It's different from what we're all used to seeing. I kinda like it.

Sorry, how do you post new threads? I ordered a forcewinder from go parts direct for my 05 1200c. They sent my me an adapter from drag specialties part# ds-289190 it doesn't fit. I called them to no avail, the guy told me I could just bolt on without an adapter. From reading the directions and from what everbody says on this site, I know that won't work. I think I also need a head breather kit? Thank you for your help from my last thread to this one!

Whatcha' think?

Jim,

Thanks for posting your review and your photos.

As for how they perform in the rain, I can offer this first-hand experience:

If you visit our site and check out the "news" section, there's a picture there taken of our booth at "bike week" in Laconia NH this past June. Those of you who were there know that it rained almost constantly starting Tuesday. Because we live and work somewhat nearby, and our hosts allowed us one parking space and would have charged us (alot, I forget how much) to park a trailer, I crossed my fingers and rode the bike back and forth every day.

I rode the 30 miles of rte 93 between Concord and Tilton at between 80 mph and... faster, in driving rain every morning and night. The rain did not hamper performance. I was pretty miserable (fair-weather rider, you see) but the bike ran like a top.

Like it says at our website (and this was my experience) the air cleaner will get covered with crud just like the rest of the bike when riding in traffic under these conditions. (The fact that our test bike has no front fender doesn't help either.) Because I was constantly disassembling the air cleaner that was on the bike for demonstrations in our booth, I cleaned it every day, but I wouldn't bother otherwise.

When washing the bike, we treat the air cleaner just as we would the gauges or other electrical components, and avoid blasting it with the hose, but that's about it. The element dries out on its own after the bike has been washed or ridden in the rain. Any water that finds its way into the carb is going to do so gradually, and will pass harmlessly through the engine.

Best regards,

Got the Ram-Flo 600 unit and it measures just slightly smaller in diameter than the original ham can. It is large enough to make contact with my knee but it feels much better than the ham can because it tapers away. Can't tell on my reasonably stock '96 1200 Sport any difference in performance. Sounds the same as the smaller unit, so I will probably go back to that one and keep 100% knee clearance. I'm going to play with different color element foam, however, and see how that looks on the bike. Since the bike is black I think I can pretty much get away with most any color. I'll post pics soon.
If anyone is contemplating an upgrade to their A/C unit you HAVE to look this unit over. It seems to be the perfect answer to the quirks of the Sportster!
It enhances the lean look of the Sportster many of us are attracted to and makes it more rideable. Can't tell you how nice it is to be able to move from mids to the highway pegs without consciously avoiding the ham can! I can shift my weight around on the seat without concern for bruising my leg!
Jim

Thats real nice. I like the smaller one. I want clearance/performance but I wanna make sure people see the V.

Nice looking piece.

I see potential for rain problems...but only in a constant downpour like running a water hose on it full blast. Id say the outer shell looks like sufficient protection.

Im puttin it on my mabey list...right next to my springer seat!

Adios

*EDIT* I dig all the products on the site and really like these guys tudes.
I agree with the A/C description as "being mercifully devoid of moving flapper-doors, pointy dog-skewering snouts, golden eagles and other ridiculous festoonery, they look cool doing it"

Cleger,

I know back about 15 years ago, I tried one of these style air cleaners (Edelbrock Triangle shaped one) on a car. It seemed to perform decent, but one back fire through the carb and the filter element was toast. It burnt it and then the crumbs of element began to be sucked into the engine. The other concern I had with the Edlebrock unit was flitration. When I examined the filter, it appeared to be pretty open and finer dust particles could pass through. So, how well does it actually filter the air (say compared to a K&N) and how flame resistant is the the filter media?

Cleger,

I know back about 15 years ago, I tried one of these style air cleaners (Edelbrock Triangle shaped one) on a car. It seemed to perform decent, but one back fire through the carb and the filter element was toast. It burnt it and then the crumbs of element began to be sucked into the engine. The other concern I had with the Edlebrock unit was flitration. When I examined the filter, it appeared to be pretty open and finer dust particles could pass through. So, how well does it actually filter the air (say compared to a K&N) and how flame resistant is the the filter media?

Very good question, can't wait for a reply.

Very good question, can't wait for a reply.

...Ditto...

Haven't tried it in pouring rain. I had the same question about the 3" Nallin with the exposed element. My guess is very hard rain would be picked up by the filtering foam and most, because the oiled foam doesn't really absorb well, would drip out but some moisture would probably be sucked into the intake. Probably wouldn't hurt anything but a shot of carb cleaner or WD40 in the intake after a ride would be in order.
I'd be curious what others with aftermarket A/C's (forcewinder, ramcharger, etc) do in the pouring rain. What about the water that works it's way around the sides and bottom of the ham can when it pours?
Jim


I run a modified ForceWinder and it comes with a 'rain sock'. You simply put the sock on when it is raining and it keeps the water out of the filter. I have ridden mine like this in down pours and never even had one sputter of water going through the engine. I have even washed my bike with it on just to see if the filter would get wet and it didn't. I have not dyno'd mine with and without the sock to see any restriction first hand, but have heard from several others who have and claim the a/c works equally as well with the sock installed.

Here is a picture of what the sock looks like on the bike. I know the picture quality is POOOOOOR, but all I had at the time was a USB PC camera and I took it through a window screen :frownthre

http://xlforum.net/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=3080&cat=500&ppuser=212

A well oil K&N will help keep water out, but in a down pour you will still pull water through the filter. Some water through the engine will not cause damage, but if you get enough (and especially if the engine is cold) you can cause damage.

Good questions guys... I have an answer (naturally!) for both.

Re: water in the engine... in the amounts we're talking about here, it is not going to be an issue. In fact, water injection systems (not that the Ram Flo is a water injection system) have been employed in high-performance engines for many years. Take a look at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_injection_(engines)

Any water that gets into our engines is NOT going to enter the engine in sufficient quantity to approach even the amount of water introduced by a water injection system, which can have a water-to-fuel ratio as high as 25%. As far as we're concerned, it's not an issue.

Re: flammability

The filter element is "flame-resistant" polyurethane foam, though it can be burned/melted. If you start a fire inside it, and let it burn, the foam is going to be destroyed. It will not really support combustion on its own under normal conditions, but there are conditions under which it will burn, e.g. if first saturated with gasoline.

A more present consideration is the oil used in the element. It is not particularly flammable, but is it more flammable than the foam element itself. The oil we use and recommend in the foam element is ordinary "bar and chain" chainsaw lubricating oil. I should note that our testing indicates that bar and chain oil is somewhat less flammable than K&N filter oil. Anyone who happens to have some K&N oil and bar and chain oil handy ind can perform little experiments like these without burning their houses down is encouraged to go out and test this themselves!

Lynx (the manufacturer) make special-purpose elements for marine applications that include a metal mesh flame guard, and we considered using these, but our conclusion at the end of our testing was that it was unnecessary, and only added to the cost and complexity of the unit.

We have run these elements extensively on a specially (de)tuned leaned-out 883 Sportster that could be made to backfire out the carb at will, just by twisting the throttle off-idle. We subjected several of our yellow-colored (to aid in visibility) and black-colored elements to repeated backfires, and found visible erosion of the foam directly in front of the bottom portion of the carb throat over the course of about 15 minutes of running, with repeated serious backfiring for each filter. This material loss amounted to about a sixteenth of an inch of the element's 5/8" original foam thickness, and was confined to about a one-inch circle, corresponding with the portion of the throat that is open when the slide is all the way down.

Keep in mind, we had this carb popping like crazy. If your bike runs this bad, you haven't read Stevo's jetting thread.

Flammability was a very real concern for the manufacturer (Lynx) before we went to market. They were concerned about the reputation of their product, and were quite vocal about not wanting to go to market with a product that would burn and quickly be deemed "junk" by folks like us, out here in the market. Lynx have been successfully manufacturing and marketing these Ram Flo units for about 35 years, and while they were eager to tap into the HD market, they proceeded with the kind of caution and reserve you'd expect from a company that's been doing this as long as they have.

We haven't heard of a burnt one yet in about 75 units sold (did I mention that these are NEW, NEW, NEW!!!) but that doesn't mean we never will. We intend to be very liberal about providing replacement foam (and tuning advice) when the day comes that we get one back.

Best regards,

Argh, I see my link didn't work. Doesn't like the closing paren... try:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_injection

The "engines" article is the second one listed.

Best regards,

Cleger,

Thanks for the open and honest response. I agree that a carb that back fires often is not tuned properly, but at the same time, carb farts are not that uncommon for Sportsters. Proper tuning can eliminate them most of the time, but an occational one is going to happen. That said, I'd highly recommend (and since the design makes it simple to inspect) that the filter media be inspected on a regular basis to ensure it is not damaged. Also, it may be important to make a note on the installation instructions that the engine should be properly tuned to prevent occurances of backfiring. It is great to hear that the manufacturer is willing to be generous with replacement filters and that they are cognizant of the issue.

Water injection has been used for years and some decent power gains can be had for a rather small investment. And I agree with you that it would take fair amounts of water to cause damage to the rods/pistons/heads, but as soon as I would say that it would be unlikely, someone put there will water lock their engine and prove us wrong. :) Depending on engine temperature, that amount of water can vary drastically. Also, with many other style filters, as they get wet, they begin to restrict airflow. I have witnessed bikes stranded in down pours because the filter became saturated with water and choked the engine or worse yet, the filter allowed too much water in and it caused the enigne to stumble and die. It might be nice to see a cover (like the one that comes with the Forcewinder) as an optional accessory.

Man, I'm wanting one of these things more and more.....

Man, I'm wanting one of these things more and more.....

So far as I can tell TN, they don't make products for '04+ Sporty's. :frownone

So far as I can tell TN, they don't make products for '04+ Sporty's. :frownone

Yeah - that's what it looks like. Dangit.

Man, I'm wanting one of these things more and more.....

Yeah I want one too.

I think it would work on any CV equipped Sporty. Might be wrong but the backplate uses the carbs three screws to attach and the foam in the basket just clips on to the backplate.
Jim

Guys,

Jim is right, the Ram Flo kits fit Sportsters though '05.

Re: fire & water...

Just in case I wasn't clear, the way we had that bike tuned went way beyond the kind of carb farts we're all accustomed to here. My personal bike will pop though the carb occasionally... the test bike was backfiring so bad that substantial/visible smoke from burned fuel in the intake tract was continuously rising out of the air cleaner. A carb fart or three on your daily ride is not going to damage the element substantially.

The manfacturer is not being generous with replacement foam - I am, or at least I'm prepared to be. They charge me for every one they ship! But based on our testing, we're both confident there is no issue with this product, and that's why I'll stand behind it.

Re: the unit's breathing capability when (very) wet, as I've mentioned before, I've repeatedly ridden a bike equipped with a Ram Flo in serious downpours at sustained 80+ mph speeds for 30 miles at a stretch and haven't noticed any impact on performance.

I don't think hydraulic lock is in the realm of possibility for our engines, with this or any other sane induction set-up. The "insane" set-up I'm imagining is a diesel Sportster with a Forcewinder with the filter removed and a grammophone funnel put in it's place, doing 100mph in a monsoon.

Cool, thanks Chris.

I got that impression from your FAQ that said you only have parts for '03-. Wasn't sure if that included the filter unit or not.

You know how us guys with these big, heavy bikes are. ;) :D

Hi Gotwa,

You're right, the FAQ is misleading, I will update it.

Certain of our product will fit '04+, Ram Flos being one of them. I need to go back and fix the FAQ. When I wrote the stuff about the later big heavy :smoke bikes, I had in mind a bunch of inquiries we were getting for our fiberglass seats. We don't have one for the later bikes yet, though one is coming. I have to work out an affordable tank combo to go with it. It doesn't say so on our site, but we sell painted steel (black) tanks to go with our seats for guys who want an affordable finished body kit for the rigid-mount bikes. I need to come up with a similar combo for the later bikes that won't require the purchase of an $1100-plus-paint aluminum tank.

Thanks,

Guys,

Jim is right, the Ram Flo kits fit Sportsters though '05.




OOOOHHHHHH YYYYEEEEAAAAHHHHH!!!!!

Ordering one Too-Morrow, BABY!

TNSportster...

I'm sure you know this, but for folks like you who already have aftermarket air cleaners mounted, all you need is the element. It will mount right up with your existing bracket and breather set-up.

Best regards,

So,compaired to the Big Sucker and the Hurricane how does the filtration and air flow measure up?

Here's our party line...

I've never put one of these units on a flow bench. I'm relying on the manufacturer's data. The 400 series' and the 600 series' names are their nominal airflow in CFM. So the 400 flows 400CFM, etc.

I'm not so imressed by the Big Sucker... to my eyes, it's main benefit is aesthetic - its integral breather. When we were developing our kits, we looked at some of the parts that comprise an integrated breather and mounting bracket/plate, but they were too expensive, and kind of worked against our "keep it simple" idiom. In the end, we went with the DS breather (simple and effective) and a complementary mounting bracket. Otherwise, looks to me like they did a nice job contouring the venturi area. I'm sure it flows fine, but some of what I've been reading, particularly in this forum, leads me to think they have some serious quality issues. I think it uses a K&N element. At least it looks like one.

The Nallin hurricane looks to me to be a superlative product. I've never seen one in person, but the photos are impressive. Looks like a well-engineered and beautifully turned-out product. Obvious care has gone into the design of the back plate. Given NRHS' leadership and success at the track, I strongly suspect that theirs is probably the best air cleaner that's ever been available, from a performance standpoint. They use a K&N element.

The Ram Flo element is a very simple, strong, lightweight piece of kit. It's very spare and elegant. The back plate is stamped, chrome-plated steel, and is flat in the venturi area. It's a very functional, effective unit, and limited dyno testing bears that out. Like I said, even the small unit flows at a nominal 400CFM, which is more than most of us need (Banks claim 125CFM for their Sportster heads) and for those that just have to have more, there's the 600CFM unit. The Ram Flo is not handicapped when it comes to flow.

That leaves us with filtration. Keep in mind, every manufacturer claims that their filters filter best. It seems everyone (everyone) has an opinion on this subject. I've talked to people that say foam filters are restrictive, others who say they flow OK but don't filter well. Everyone (I think) agrees that gauze elements flow well, but opinion varies with regard to their effectiveness as filters.

I believe foam filters better. Apparently, so do K&N.

http://www.knfilters.com/airforcewraps.htm

I imagine they must have bales and bales of gauze lying around. I wonder why they don't just sell you more when things get dusty?

All of the manufacturers (K&N, UNI, Amsoil, Lynx inter al.) have published data in support of their claim that their filters are best at protecting our engines. But they all set up their own tests, and their test methods vary.

My reading of the data has led me to a couple of conclusions (leaving paper filters out of this.)

1. Gauze filters show poor filtration efficiency until their media get loaded up (clogged) enough to present a significant enough impediment to incoming particles. They also seem to show poor filtration efficiency at high vacuum/velocity. Hold your K&N element up to the light some day, and consider why this might be true.

2. Foam filters are more efficient when new/freshly-serviced. They don't rely on loading to close holes in their elements, but instead rely on the convoluted shape of their many passages to cause dirt particles to bang into the walls of the open foam cells on their way through. Again, take one of our oiled foam elements and hold it up to the light... hold it up in front of the sun at noon on a clear day. It's opaque. Dirt moving through the 5/8" of foam is going to hit something on its way through.

Go look at K&Ns test data, and you'll see that they test their filters at lower vacuum than do the manfacturers of foam elements, (UNI, Lynx, etc.) I think I know why.

When I consider gauze's poor initial filtration efficiency with poor filtration at high vacuum, versus Ram Flo's good initial efficiency and excellent filtration at high vaccum, I conclude that foam is better. Dirt bike manufacturers seem to agree... they almost all specify foam as OEM.

Of course, we're not riding in the dirt (mostly.) Maybe you can get away with gauze. Maybe you won't own the bike long enough for it to make a difference. Maybe.

At the end of the day, these are air cleaners. For most of us, at some point it becomes a matter of appearance and taste. I believe ours is a great product. It flows performs on a par with the best air cleaners out there. It filters very well... I believe BETTER than gauze elements. The basic product has been in continuous production for 35 years, was bred in a racing environment (Formula Junior) and has been mounted on countless winning machines.

It is affordable, washable/re-usable, and looks very, very cool.

Best regards,

TNSportster...

I'm sure you know this, but for folks like you who already have aftermarket air cleaners mounted, all you need is the element. It will mount right up with your existing bracket and breather set-up.

Best regards,

I wondered about that - thanks!

Have a question prior to ordering -

Since I'll be doing an 88" conversion, should I go with the bigger, higher-flow one?

I wouldn't say so... the 400 is still going to be more than adequate. The 400 is 4.5"x7", and the 600 is 5.5"x9".

OK -thanks!

I was hoping the smaller one would do the job.

Just made the order!

Ahhh... an order!

Headed to the post office right now. Please do come back and share your impressions once you have it installed. I'm looking forward to seeing photos of it installed on your bike!

Many thanks,

Cleger -

Have a question for you -

Should I do anything different with my breather setup? Keep the breather filter element?

Here's a picture of it currently...

TXSportster,

Your breather set-up will work fine with the Ram Flo air cleaner. As long as you like the way it looks, you're good to go.

We use the Drag Specialties breather in our kits, mostly because it's tidy-looking and its spout points downward for people who chose to plumb the breather back into the back of the air cleaner (optional... we supply a plug for the back plate for those who route their hoses elsewhere.)

A set up like yours has a couple of functional advantages:

1. you don't have to worry about excess oil finding its way into the air cleaner. It's also rumored that the oily vapor entering the engine will rob you of a horsepower or two.

2. By routing the hoses upward as you have, most of the oil that gets puked out of the breathers will flow back down into the engine, where it belongs.

Thanks again for your order! Let us know how you make out!

Best regards,

Nothin' but good news from you guys today!

Thanks for all your super-quick responses.

Cleger, I heard you say that it would fit with aftermarket air cleaner backing plates, just need the element, is that true of the screaming eagle air cleaner backing plate? If your kit bolts to the 3 screws on the CV carb, is there anything that helps hold the carb in place? Thanks!

Hi Impact883,

The Ram Flo element has its own backing plate. The way it installs is typical of aftermarket air cleaners... via a seperate bracket to hold the carb in place, and a breather kit that works independent of the air cleaner.

Your SE set-up doesn't have a bracket, it relies on the stiffness of the back plate and its attachment to the heads/breathers to hold the carb in place, as you know.

TXSportster already had an aftermarket bracket and breather (they're all somewhat similar) that will work with the Ram Flo unit. You'd need a similar set-up. We have a complete mounting kit available at our site.

Best regards,

We use the Drag Specialties breather in our kits, mostly because it's tidy-looking and its spout points downward for people who chose to plumb the breather back into the back of the air cleaner (optional... we supply a plug for the back plate for those who route their hoses elsewhere.)

A set up like yours has a couple of functional advantages:

1. you don't have to worry about excess oil finding its way into the air cleaner. It's also rumored that the oily vapor entering the engine will rob you of a horsepower or two.

Best regards,

The worst thing about that crankcase vapor being routed into the air cleaner is that over time, it gunks up the slide in the carb resulting in poor throttle response .... The slide becomes very sticky

Those crankcase vapors really need to be routed to atmosphere.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Turbota/DSCN0521.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Turbota/DSCN0523.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Turbota/DSCN0524.jpg

.... And then 'zip-tied' to the lower frame tube

Thanks cleger, you've been very helpful! I'll be sure to check out the website, will probably get me one from all the good things I've heard here. Turbota, I like the way you've got your breather hose routed...looks good, as does your entire bike!

Thankyou Impact :)

cleger

Which filter is shown on the bike on your website, the 400 or 600??? :D


Thanks

It's a 400. There's a good close-up of a 400 installed... it's the last photo in the installation instructions, at http://www.trak-tek.com/products/airCleaners/ramFlo/installation/images/rki16.jpg

Best regards,