Well, it's almost time for the 1k. I would like to start using the Synthetics as soon as possible, but I don't want to cause problems. Is it acceptable to use Synthetics at the 1k, or do I have to wait for more break-in? Also, is there anything else in particular I should be looking at for the 1k? I'm going to let the stealer do it, but I want to make sure that I do everything possible to make my scoot last as long as possible.

I used the search, but nothing really cleared this up for me.

Any advice would be appreciated. :D

Clanure

This subject hasn't come up before. :roflblack Noooooooooooooooo.

I respectfuly decline further comment

:rolleyes: No...really,man, I thought I saw this one once before...Good to see ya back around WillyP

I'm no mechanic but I think that it's fine to use the Synthetic oil at the 1k service.The shop that done my service put Amsoil Synthetic in mine.If you go with the synthetic I would not use Screaming Eagle.I have read and heard that it is one of the worst oils to put in your bike.I saw a demo on the speed channel where they had it in a bike and let the bike run and put some kinda infrared thing over the camera lens and the engine was way hot.But with Amsoil and I think it was called Royal Purple the motor wasn't running hot.The bike was not moving so either way it would have got hot with any oil in it but the SE oil got hot faster.I also saw a diagram at the dealer I go to and It showed that with the SE oil you get more engine wear than any other Synthetic oil.Even Mobil 1 was better.But if a Harley dealer does your 1k service they will probably put the SE oil in because they swear by SE.If you have a SE high flow air cleaner then you probably know that SE is kinda overated.At least to me they are.That's my 2 cents...Good Luck..

I switched to Amsoil at about 1200 miles. Had the stealer do the 1000 mile service. Brought it home and made the switch. So far no issues.

LV

If you want your scoot to last as long as possible, I would buy a Service manual and do the service work yourself. After break in, it is OK to switch to Syn.

Well, it's almost time for the 1k. I would like to start using the Synthetics as soon as possible, but I don't want to cause problems. Is it acceptable to use Synthetics at the 1k, or do I have to wait for more break-in? Also, is there anything else in particular I should be looking at for the 1k? I'm going to let the stealer do it, but I want to make sure that I do everything possible to make my scoot last as long as possible.

I used the search, but nothing really cleared this up for me.

Any advice would be appreciated. :D

Clanure

Going to the syn at 1K is perfect. The engine is fully broken in so it's the right time to start the extra protection the syn can give you. I did the same thing, have 14k on my bike now, no probs whatsoever. For my next change I think I will be going to amsoil. It appears to be better and costs a little less.

I went to the stealer (Riverdale) for my 1k and 5k. Did my own 10k. In retrospect I wish I would have done it myself starting at the 5k...would have saved a bunch. If you plan on doing the maintenance yourself for the 5k you might ask the mechanic to put some antisieze on the torx bolts that hold the primary cover on. Many of us have had a horrible time getting those damn things off. I ruined most of mine getting them off as well as ruining a couple tools/bits. I think the problem was dissimilar metals causing a little corrosion that effectively locked the torx bolts tighter than red loctite!

I bought my first sporster 18 years ago from a hard core biker shop. No boutique there. I don't know if synthetic oil was even around back then but these guys said forget the 20/50 oil and to put in the straight 50 weight. What do you all think?
john gov.

I bought my first sporster 18 years ago from a hard core biker shop. No boutique there. I don't know if synthetic oil was even around back then but these guys said forget the 20/50 oil and to put in the straight 50 weight. What do you all think?
john gov.
For many many years that was true. However with todays clearances, using straight 50w ain't a real good idea.

For what it's worth, the '06 Screamin' Eagle 103 inch Electria Glide comes from the factory with synthetic in all three holes.

In my research, the consensus is wait until 2K for a car. However, a car engine runs cooler than an air cooled engine & may take longer to thoroughly break-in. I switched to Mobil-1 in my '03 Camry, & uses no oil between changes. I plan to switch to Mobil-1 20W-50 in my bike at 2K. By the way, what company makes Harley's synthetic oil? :xlrocks

As a new guy, I really appreciate the willingness to discuss what's probably an old topic to the veterans here. Thanks!

I've heard that CITGO mixes up the new Syn3 oil for HD... I think you can find out for sure if you ask for the MSDS on it.

My thought mark 883. Tried to back into it with a search of msds on google. can't seem to back into it. Will probably need to see actual sheet. Every dealer has to have them. Anyone work for a dealer?

I broke my bike in harder than the book said and switched over at about 1100 miles. At 7000 miles I've had no problems and the bike uses very little oil.

I tried Syn3 in the transmission at 5000 miles but had to change it back to Sportstran as the Syn3 caused a clunking when letting the clutch out slowly.

Just had the 1K service done at the dealer - I asked about changing to synthetic and they said better to wait till next service to be safe. Their words - "you're still running in the bike so don't change it yet". I know the owner manual says the engine is run in at 1K but the local dealer disagrees. I think I'll change between scheduled services at about 2K or thereabouts.

Cheers,

Brett

From the Mobil 1 "Myths" page at http://www.mobil1.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Synthetics/Myths.aspx :

Myth: You should break in your engine with conventional oil, then switch to a synthetic oil like Mobil 1.

Reality:You can start using Mobil 1 with SuperSyn Technology in new vehicles at any time, even in brand new vehicles. In fact, Mobil 1 with SuperSyn Technology is original equipment (it is installed at the factory) in:


* Aston Martin
* Bentley Amage and Bentley GT
* Cadillac CTS, XLR, SRX and STS
* Chevrolet Corvette
* Dodge Viper
* Mercedes-Benz AMG vehicles
* Mercedes SLR
* Mitsubishi EVO
* Pontiac GTO
* All Porsche vehicles

One of the myths that surrounds synthetic oils is that new engines require a break-in period with conventional oil. The fact is, current engine manufacturing technology does not require this break-in period. As indicated by the decisions of the engineers who design the high-performance cars listed above, Mobil 1 can be used starting the day you drive the car off the showroom floor.

If you call Amsoil, they'll tell you the same thing.

If you read the label on a bottle of Syn 3, it says the same thing.

There's nothing about synthesizing base stock molecules that makes it more "slippery". That's a huge misconception, that synthetics are more slippery than dino oils.

Interesting note on synthetics ... for years, the defacto definition of a synthetic was that it was made from a group 4 PAO or group 5 ester base stock. These are base stocks that are chemically synthesized for uniform molecule size. Group 3 base stocks are hydroprocessed mineral oils. Well, "hydrocracking" was developed as a more advanced form of hydroprocessing, and improved the level of the group 3 base stocks to a point where Castrol started marketing a hydrocracked group 3 oil as synthetic. Mobil took exception to it and sued them in 1998, ultimately losing the suit. That redefined what the word "synthetic" has come to mean.

Hydrocracking is quite a bit cheaper way to process than chemical synthesizing, and ultimately what happened is that Mobil started blending group 3 base stocks into their oil to reduce costs. This is where the whole "tri-synthetic" thing came from, it's made from group 3, 4, and 5 base stocks. Ditto "Syn 3", it uses all 3 kinds of base stocks.

Amsoil continues with a group 4 PAO based oil, last I heard they're not blending the group 3 stuff. Red Line used to advertise that their oil used only group 5 ester base stocks, which are inherently better than PAO's because they require fewer additives to provide multi-vis properties, but I don't know if they've stuck to that or not.

I don't sell AMSOIL, but I am thinking about it, and I happily use it as a 'AMSOIL Preferred Customer'. Switched to Syn3 at 1000 miles, switched to AMSOIL prior to winter storage and running it since.

Here's a nice PDF link for AMSOIL reccommendation for all Harley's - older Sporty's anyone? http://www.amsoil.com/lit/harley_davidson_TSB.pdf

Here is some info I found off of the MSDS for Syn3. It is manufactured by Citgo.



(*) Component
CAS #
Concentration

(1) 1-Decene Homopolymer, hydrogenated
68037-01-4
50% - 70%

About 60% PAO Group IV. "SYNTHETIC"

(2) Proprietary Ingredients
Proprietary Mixture
1% - 10%

This is their additive package consisting of Detergent/Dispersant, VII's, FM's, Rust Inhibitors, Ashless antioxidants, metal deactivators, etc.

(3) Polyisobutylene
9003-27-4
1% - 10%

This is a synthesized hydrocarbon used to thicken oil. Helps the VI. It would most likely be at the 1% level.

(4) Distillates, Petroleum, Hydrotreated Heavy Paraffinic
64742-54-7
0% - 20%

Group II+ Base oil for mixture. (PETROLEUM) Conoco Pure Performance Base Oil

(5) Distillates, Petroleum, Solvent-Refined Heavy Paraffinic
64741-88-4
0% - 20%

Group I base oil for mixture. (PETROLEUM) Most likely used to increase solvency. Research yielded no information on the group number of Item 5 but it is Conoco'c Cit-Con 650N Base Oil. Can't help but presume that it is a Group I oil as it is solvent refined. Again, I stand to be corrected.

(6) Zinc Alkyldithiophosphate
68649-42-3
0% - 2%

ZDDP for antiwear, antioxidant.


I would feel comfortable saying that this oil is between 60 and 70% synthetic. However seeing that it contains Grp I and II base oils could explain why it tends to shear down so quickly as they do not hold up as well.

One rotten apple destroys the pie.

Ken

I recently had my 1k service done at the dealer and went with synthetic. They said it was no problem since it will be standard practice according to the MoCo in a couple of months.

This was what the stealer said though, so I guess you can take that with a grain of salt LOL!

I'll circle back to my previous comment and state that HD puts Syn3 in the 2006 103 inch SE Electra Glide from the factory in all three holes. I suspect it's just a matter of time til they do it for everything.

I just did my 1k and used Synthetic Amsoil--also put it in the tranny. Seems to shift and run smoother now.

How much is your stealer charging for the 1k? I did it myself, and after buying parts, including a lift, I saved $200+

I just did my 1k and used Synthetic Amsoil--also put it in the tranny. Seems to shift and run smoother now.

How much is your stealer charging for the 1k? I did it myself, and after buying parts, including a lift, I saved $200+


I changed mine very early, around 600 miles. I have been using regular automotive Mobil1 and I love it. I didn't want the hassle of Amsoil and the price is rediculous for the small gain over Mobil1. Try getting a quart of Amsoil in some small town.

Hawk

My question is WHY do you want to go to a Synthetic? IMO, true Synthetics do offer an advantage in handling heat. If you live in south Texas like I do, running a true synthetic will prevent heat related oil breakdown in the summer. If you live in the far north, a true synthetic will flow and lube better during winter start-ups. As far as extended OCIs with Synthetics, I still change my oil and filter every 2K. I only run a synthetic in the summer because of my stop-n-go 100+ degree riding style. The rest of the year, I run Havoline 20W-50. If you decide to use a synthetic, put your money to good use and buy a true synthetic like Amsoil, Mobil 1 or Redline.

I switched to syn3 at my 1K service. It is the right time. The bike is broken in. BTW: The bike runs smoother and runs cooler with the syn3 than the dino oil. It will heat up in here over which brand to use, but IMO, syn3 NOW is the way to go for performance and longevity of your bike.

Loco
So. Cal.

As I have stated previously, I use AMSOIL in all my off-road cycles/quads, but for some reason decided to go with the Screamin Eagle Syn at 1k for my sportster. Most all oils today are manufactured at a higher standard than in years past, and with regular oil/filter changes do a good job. I think the most important part is the regular service. In my off-road experience, I noticed marked improvement in most every aspect when running AMSOIL products, both 2 cycle premix and trans/clutch lubricants. Service regularly and if you are able do it yourself- that way you know first hand what the results are and if a problem is developing.

Sorry to rehash a very old topic, but I thought I would mention something that I didn’t see. According to most (or all) synthetic oil manufacturers, it is ok to use synthetic oil from day one, but the question is why would you do it. One of the main reasons for using synthetic oil is longevity; you can keep it in there for 5-10k+ miles (crazy guys at BITOG doing 10k+ oil changes to see how the oil analysis comes out). But if you’re like me (anal about oil) and you change it at 500, 1k and 2k (haven’t decided if I am going to do a 2k change or not yet) the question is why would you use synthetic oil just to dump it out well before you need to. If you use synthetic oil from the beginning you might as well just change the filter at 500, 1k and 2k, because you won’t need to change the oil until 5k so long as it’s clean. Me, I prefer to flush out the system several times during and after break-in, although that is probably unnecessary. But since I do plan on actually changing the oil during and after break-in I won’t use synthetics until the last break-in oil change.
Dan

I had the dealer put in Syn3 in both holes at my 1k service. 1800 miles now and zero problems. I've noticed that it starts much better in cold weather so it's got to be protecting better in cold weather. Not much price difference between Mobil 1, Amsoil and Syn3. I personally belive the synthetic offers better protection in extreme circumstances than the fosil oil. If you've "ridden" your bike at all in the 1st 1k, your rings should be seated so there is really no compelling reason not to. As for which brand/type is best? Go with any of the big 3, H-D, Amsoil or Mobil 1 for Big Twins and you really can't go wrong. My dealer carries all 3 and says "choose one".

I had the stealer put the SE synthetic in my bike at the 1k and it seems to be running great. :banana

My stealer said to wait until the 5,000k service to switch to synthetic. They said I would have "oil burning issues" if I did it at the 1000 mile service. Yeah right! I swear I don't know why I even ask these clowns anything. I got the service manual so now they never see my bike. I switched to Amsoil. Bike runs cool and smooth. Also put 75W90 synthetic gear oil in the transmission. She shifts like butta. BTW I did my own 10,000k service. Stealer wanted $369 plus tax!

My question is WHY do you want to go to a Synthetic? IMO, true Synthetics do offer an advantage in handling heat. If you live in south Texas like I do, running a true synthetic will prevent heat related oil breakdown in the summer. If you live in the far north, a true synthetic will flow and lube better during winter start-ups. As far as extended OCIs with Synthetics, I still change my oil and filter every 2K. I only run a synthetic in the summer because of my stop-n-go 100+ degree riding style. The rest of the year, I run Havoline 20W-50. If you decide to use a synthetic, put your money to good use and buy a true synthetic like Amsoil, Mobil 1 or Redline.


I have to agree with this, as well as some other things in here. The big thing with synthetic oil is that it will lst longer without breaking down, HOWEVER, there's still all the shit in the oil that's there anyways. The filter can only hold so much.

As for me, I asked my dealer if I would benefit from using it. He asked at what temp my bike runs. According to my cheapo oil tank guage, I never get above 210, maybe 215 on really hot days when not moving much. He told me NOT to go synthetic as my bike runs cool as it is, and the synthetic oil may harm it's ability to burn off and condensation in the oil.

Just some food for though. Speaking of which, those left over baby back ribs are calling me - time for a lunch break.

First of all I wanted to say hello, as this is my first post.

I'm another one of those 'anal about oil' guys.

I've got just over 400 miles on my bike and am planning to change the oil at 500.

I'm planning on going with AMSOIL's MCV 20W-50 ultimately... Not sure about using it at the 500, since I plan to change at 1K and 2K as well.

I remembered reading somewhere where someone said something about a chart - not sure if it was this thread or not...

Anyway, I thought these were pretty interesting:

"20W-50 Motorcycle Oil
High Temperature Viscosity Protection
Higher values reflect better film strength
ASTM Test Method D-4683 March 16, 2005"
https:// www .amsoil.com/graphs/motooils2005/hitemp_viscos_mcv_lg.jpg
(ugh, can't post URLs yet - take the spaces out)

"20W-50 Motorcycle Oil
Wear Comparison
ASTM Test Method D-4172 March 16, 2005"
https:// www .amsoil.com/graphs/motooils2005/wear_compare_mcv_lg.jpg
(before I saw that, I was thinkin' about using Royal Purple!)

More info can be found at:
www .amsoil.com/storefront/mcv.aspx

Okay, so first of all please correct any of my incorrect statements.

Secondly, for the "anal lube" / ride their bike hard guys,
Not worrying about money, would you use the Best right away knowing what you know now?

Aright gotta get back to work.
Thanks for all the help.

I had no idea that the "Tri Synthetic" marketing was really a scam and a way for companies to justify use of PAO 3, 4, and 5 base stocks. That's completely rediculous! I've been using Mobil1 5w-30 in the cager and 15w-50 (red top) in the bike for as long as I've owned them. Shoot, I switched the bike to synthetic at 221 miles (runs great). However, this Tri Synthetic crap really bugs me.

Does anyone know how Valvoline Synthetic rates? I've considered switching due to the price increases in Mobil1. Mobil1 is not $9/Qt by me, damned rediculous.