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Ferrous Head
18th June 2011, 13:28
E-Bay item 320713432261

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320713432261&fromMakeTrack=true

Is it possible that this is a REAL XLR engine ????? Or is this a fake ????

racerwill
18th June 2011, 13:42
if one recently sold for 38,000, why sell it for 4 grand??

Ww

thefrenchowl
18th June 2011, 14:47
Hi Ferrous Head,

Too bad/small photos to confirm or not anything for sure but:

Frame, seat and swing arm look like 70 Iron XR one but could be replicas, forks are just Ceriani motocrosser, wrong...

Engine has a generator, so at the very least, the right case is wrong. Cylinders are way too tall for 750, so are 900 ones if not aftermarket. Serial number is in the wrong sequence, even digit serial start with uneven year, so probably a restamp job, not that unusual on a genuine racer but certainly a no-no on a street bike...

Can't see the heads...

Stay away if you want a proper racer, buy if you just want a street bike with a difference!!!

Patrick

Ferrous Head
18th June 2011, 15:00
Guy is claiming heads have the raised bosses for spark plugs.
I picked up that a lot of the stuff is wrong - the frame looks like an XR even to the steering head being really long on the bottom.
But the engine number looked wrong to me. The "L" looks like the wrong size. And the whole thing just doesn't quite look right. Like it might have been an XLH restamped.

Campsurf
18th June 2011, 16:19
The post got my attention. Locally I have seen two XLRs, both owned by the local HD Dealer.. the 70 is very rare..

This was shown on the Hot Bike web page as a 1970.. ??
http://image.hotbikeweb.com/f/9061915/0709_hbkp_17_z+harley_davidson+1970_xr_750.jpg

This is cool and it says it is a 1970..."1970 was the first-year production for the "Iron XR", manufactured to meet racing criteria and rules according to the AMA at the time. Only 200 were assembled. Then the HD racing department realized after a few races the frames needed modification and the steel top end was heavy and extremely hot. HD decided the XR was not race worthy and disassembled and destroyed the frames on 80% of them.

Rumor has it that this survivor bike was turned over to Evel Knievel, who used it for pre-show exhibition."
http://baron73.blogspot.com/2011/01/1970-harley-davidson-xr-750.html

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_U05qk-NwWZ0/TScLqsX67nI/AAAAAAAAA3s/V3c6qENPbBI/s640/186a_1+1970+Harley+Davidson+XR-750.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_U05qk-NwWZ0/TScLrueVO2I/AAAAAAAAA3w/B6KSqfpy4nI/s640/186a_2+1970+Harley+Davidson+XR-750.jpg

http://cdn1.iofferphoto.com/img/item/109/755/517/EDFx.jpg

http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt263/dt18k/IM001198.jpg?t=1259190321

Here is a nice page showing quite a few HD Racers..
http://picgallery.biz/image/Harley-Davidson%20XR%20750

Done surfing... but found this trick bike while searching the 1970... I don't know why I love 1970 Bikes.. a lot of transition that year for motorcycling in general..

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t224/pedro_puku/DSCN3565sm.jpg

rivethog
18th June 2011, 17:29
Cylinders are way too tall for 750, so are 900 ones if not aftermarket.
The FSM I have for KR, KR-TT, and XLR-TT says an XLR is an 883, wouldn't 900 cyls be correct?

thefrenchowl
18th June 2011, 22:39
rivethog: wouldn't 900 cyls be correct?

Yes, but the guy is selling it as an 1970 iron XR, 750cc!!!

Thanks, campsurf for the few photos...

Top one is an alloy XR, post 72 with an aftermarket gas tank,

Middle one is an iron XR but with the wrong wheels...

... And #25 are XR cycle parts with a CH engine in it!!!

#4, probs ex Markel, is right, down to the oil tank, filler cap on the right hand side...

Quite a good mix!!!

Patrick

78ironhead
18th June 2011, 23:14
Look close at the vin #. You can see it has stamped over numbers. Take that one to sturgis. LOL.

Ferrous Head
19th June 2011, 00:52
Yeah, I would have thought if I managed to buy an XLR that I would have done some serious research on the bike. The info is out there. And yes, the numbers look to me like it started out as an XLH.
I chase down everything I see as hope springs eternal .....

Ferrous Head
19th June 2011, 01:06
I sent the guy a message and asked him to check for roller bearings on the cams.
Here's his reply.
"I bought it understanding it was real. I'll post a pic of the spark plug boss's. Do I need to pull the lower right side cover to find the bearings in cam cover?"
I told him if it was a REAL XLR it's worth a lot more money but to do the research on the bike before he tries to sell it.
The fact that the guy is willing to do what's asked of him in this way makes me think the guy is genuine even if the bike isn't.
This is the problem whenever people build replica's.
I overheard someone at a race meeting explaining to a crowd of fascinated onlookers that MY bike was a genuine factory racer. While I considered that a compliment I set everyone straight as I had built the bike from scratch myself. I stamped the frame "Gene 250" so nobody would ever make a mistake like that.
We need to be careful about the myths we perpetuate.

Monte03
19th June 2011, 03:07
Take a Real Good Look at that EBay Picture, That is One TALL Motor..
ala Tall Stroker.... I'm not sayin, I'm Just Sayin ! Far from Original

rivethog
19th June 2011, 03:13
Yes, but the guy is selling it as an 1970 iron XR, 750cc!!!

Patrick
I must be looking at a different listing than you. The one in the link is listed an an XLR-TT. It even has XLR on the tank in HUGE letters.

Ferrous Head
19th June 2011, 09:38
Hey Monte - picture of VIN shows 69 XLR. Those were 883's. The frame is 1970 style XR750. But if the engine was a 1969 XLR it could have been put into a 1970 frame. I understand there were 6 XLR's built to order in 1970. They may well have gone into XR style frames. I don't know.
The problem here is it is POSSIBLE that this is in fact an XLR motor. Or the remains of one.
Hard to pick from looking at the outside. I've asked the guy to pull the cam cover and look at how the cams are held in the cases. If it's setup for roller bearings AND he has the raised boss heads, I'm gunna think it IS an XLR motor.
At any rate the frame is either a good copy of an early XR750 frame OR an XR750 frame.

thefrenchowl
19th June 2011, 10:39
Rivethog: The one in the link is listed an an XLR-TT. It even has XLR on the tank in HUGE letters

I'm looking at the same listing, title of auction says XLR-TT but it goes on giving the cc as 750 and his description is of the iron 750 XR

Recap:

- Right case defo early XLCH or XLH, as well as timing cover, no need to dismantle to know the cams are on Torringtons...
- Very tall cylinders, as Monte says, could even be bigger than 883
- Wrong VIN sequence = restamp on old cases or PO stamp on NOS cases

Left case, would have to pull the tin cover out to check number of bosses, 10 cast bosses on left case for 10 screws on XLR, only 9/9 on pre 69 XLCH/XLH. Looks like it's only got 9...

Yes, Ferrous Head, the very few 1970 XLR were identical to XR as cycle parts go. H-D catalogues/books don't say what the new VIN was, but certainly NOT 70 XLR xxxx. Iron XR are 1C 10xxx H0

Patrick

Ferrous Head
19th June 2011, 14:57
Yeah, I just went and looked at my 69CH engine and they were still using the "odd" shaped numbers then. Straight sided 6's, not the round one that engine has. So unless the race shop stamped the numbers it's probably a fake.
What a shame.
I'd love to have an Iron XLR.

Ferrous Head
19th June 2011, 15:10
Dunno. Did the XLR's follow the even/odd number sequence ?
If so, is this one fake too ????

http://www.sporty-ironheads.com/ironhead_1966/1966_Ironhead_XLCH_XLR_883_by_Brian.php

Ferrous Head
19th June 2011, 23:50
This will be interesting.
The guy has pulled the listing to check the bike out.
Anyone know if belly numbers should start with a 7 for Sportster or something else ?
Pulling cam cover and primary cover would tell us if the cases are XLR.
Anyone know if the XR750 frames were stamped with anything ? Patrick ?

Desertfox
20th June 2011, 01:18
Since the XR750 is basically a destroked 883, the main feature is the relatively short squat cylinders. In fact the cooling fins at the bottom of the jugs had to be milled flat where they meet so they would bolt back on to the bottom end. The original Ironheads were replaced in short order with high performance alloy heads. Plus both exhaust pipes exit the heads on the left side .

thefrenchowl
20th June 2011, 01:42
Ferrous Head: If so, is this one fake too ???? So unless the race shop stamped the numbers

Doooo... Same wrong sequence again, even with uneven... And 729 XLRs in 66 I rather doubt!!! Only about 20 for that year. And the race shop used the same stamps as the street ones, Dick O'Brien had them under lock and key...

Ferrous Head: Anyone know if belly numbers should start with a 7 for Sportster or something else ?

No, XLR/KR don't, they only have a matched serial, usually 2 or 3 digits, mine's a paired 2 digits. XR I don't know......

Ferrous Head: Anyone know if the XR750 frames were stamped with anything ?

Since it's the 70s, the frame should bear the same VIN as the engine, 1C 10xxx H0

Desert Fox: Since the XR750 is basically a destroked 883. In fact the cooling fins at the bottom of the jugs had to be milled flat where they meet so they would bolt back on to the bottom end.

No, an Iron XR is basically a destroked XLR which is a different animal compared to a CH!!! And it's the top of the cyls they milled, not the bottom...

Patrick

Ferrous Head
20th June 2011, 02:07
Since the XR750 is basically a destroked 883, the main feature is the relatively short squat cylinders. In fact the cooling fins at the bottom of the jugs had to be milled flat where they meet so they would bolt back on to the bottom end. The original Ironheads were replaced in short order with high performance alloy heads. Plus both exhaust pipes exit the heads on the left side .

No claims this is an XR750.

VIN shows as 69XLR. In 1970 the Iron XR was coded 9B The Iron XR750 does indeed have 1 fin removed for the shorter cylinders. But XLR engines are 883cc's.

Ever wonder why Harley chose to run the KR750 at Daytona right through 1968 ?
Because the XLR was 883cc's. And the rule book said overhead valve machines were limited to 500cc's.
When they changed that rule in 1969 Harley had to do something fast. As the opposition would now be allowed to run 750cc Overhead valve engines Harley were in trouble.
So they de-stroked the XLR to 750cc's. It still had the exhaust pipes on the right side and just one carby.
The "NEW" XR750 as announced for 1970 was a de-stroked XLR883.
But records show 6 XLR's were ordered for 1970. So in theory these would have been XLR engines in the "new" XR750 frame. (Basically a KR frame)
The "new" XR 750 for 1970 would have had 9B engines in KR style frames.

Why would anybody want an XLR engine in a XR750 (KR) style frame ?

Probably didn't intend to race it except in hillclimbs or club level races.

Records (as I understand it) indicate 8 of these type bikes were built. I don't know that any of them have been "found" over the years. Are they still out there ? Who knows. But you'd expect a couple at least to have survived somewhere.
Could this be one ???? Don't know.
But at least I have the current owner doing the research to find out.