I have a 58 Ironhead, it has a 45 degree rake, no frame stretch, a welded on hard-tail. I was told the forks were 8 inches over, they measure 39 inches from the top of the top tree to the center of the wheel.

Yesterday was the first time ever riding it, and I was extremely surprised by the handling, or lack of I should say. Its very hard to explain, but here goes it....The steering has a very floppy feel, Taking of from a stop sign, turning right, it felt like it wanted to fold over, one time I hit a pot hole in a turn like this, and if I wasn't paying attention it felt like it would have folded on me. Even sitting on the bike not moving it has the same floppy feel.

Is this just the way big raked bikes are? I sat on a Captain America clone bike before (Easyrider Movie), and a friends of my dads when I was younger, both ha the floppy feel. But this is the only I have ridden.

I believe this is just a garage rat chopped bike from the 70's, so I never expected a corner carving machine, BUT this thing is insane.

I live in Detroit, so I plan to ride it thru the summer in its current set-up, no mater what, and get a personal feel for it, but I think it must be changed.

My main idea is to get a new frame and forks, but I still want some rake unless it really kills the handling like it is now. If I got a new frame I would want to get a springer fork, so raked trees are not a possibility.

So, who out there owns, owned, or ridden raked bikes. If you know the rake, stretch, front end (type, length) or any other dimensions, or other factors, post it, with your handling thoughts of it.

Choppers are notoriously BAD handling bikes. They are built mostly for stylings sake and are usually bar hoppers. They are not about performance, they are about looking cool. Something they do exceptionally well. As long as you are on smooth pavement and in a relatively straight line they are fun, but if you find yourself in a diminishing radius turn, you will start to get into trouble. I really don't see how a lot of these wild customs with radical rakes (45 degrees is fairly radical) are even ridable in any real sense. Most are just show ponies. I've only ridden one once, that was enough.

You haven't said if it's a frame rake or in the trees. I suspect the latter. A stock set of trees and throw the extensions away. HD has been making the sporty for 50 years and has the frame geometry pretty well set. Another option is a new front end from one of the many suppliers. It's all about your budget. While they may look nice, I wouldn't ride a bike with an extended rake

Buying rat chopper is a risky business at best. I suspect you'll get a lot of feedback on this.

You haven't said if it's a frame rake or in the trees
The rake is all in the frame. I will post a pic in a few days when I get a pic.

I had figured this was just the way it goes, I kinda needed some reassurance on it.

I plan to swap out to a Paughco Frame and springer, the offer 30, 35, and 40 degree rakes, and a downtube stretch of 0", 1" or 1.5". I would like to use the 40 degree, but if the only way to get a decent trail is with the 30 degree rake, I think that is the way I will go.

Buying rat chopper is a risky business
Agreed, it way basicly aa assembeled basket case, with a few mixmatched and missing baskets.

Hey Rigid. I can't tell you from personal experience, but know a number of people who had choppers. To a man, they said that they handle like crap. A good bike for the open road (straight & flat highways) but not for the curves. Good luck with your mods.

From personal experience, click my avitar, just because you run an extended front end, raked out neck, etc. doesn't mean your bike will ride like crap. Its all in the trail. My bike has 45 degree rake in the frame, 10" over front end, but most importantly, 6 degrees of rake in the trees. This effectively gives me a total rake of 51 degrees, but with a very manageable 5.5-6" of trail. Its no sportbike, (it used to be), and I don't carve the corners on her, but is it terribly worse than a stock softtail? No, not really, as a stock softie runs around the same trail. It sounds like a set of raked trees would help out your problem tremendously. There are some free rake and trail calculators on the internet that are good for figuring this out. Ideally you want a trail figure between 4" and 6". Good luck!!

Have you checked out www.chopperkit.com ?

The rake is all in the frame.

In which case you're headed in the right direction. I'd do a lot of investigation before going 40 degrees. Then again, it all depends on your wants and needs, not mine.

good luck

my triumph has a 4" longer hard tail 10" over fork tubes and no rake and it handles like a dream , like running on rails . it has no low speed flop

now lowering the tail gives the frame a false rake but on mine it must be slight enuff to not affect the handling and its low , the seat hight is a scant 21" off the ground

but most old scool choppers are raked for looks and too much rake will mess with the low speed handling but they will runn great on the highway , one of the old tricks with springers was to make long rockers to get the axle up high over the forks to keep it from flopping this trick had its draw backs to as it made it hard to steer , the forks did not want to turn and when they did it also lifted the whole frame (thats why they were stable at speed)

insane rakes are just not good for driving , there are too many was to get a good looking bike these days with out raking the frame
but since this is what you have , I'd ditch the long forks and think of getting it deraked

unless you want a cool bar hopper

think of getting it deraked

Is that even feasable? Sounds pretty expensive!

well if a welder can rake it , he can derake it (might cost a bit more tho)

Let me see if I have this right. You're putting that kind of money into a '58 ironhead?

gotta see a pic then I/we can get a better idea of where your at and offer some sound addvice

Hey Rigid. I can't tell you from personal experience, but know a number of people who had choppers. To a man, they said that they handle like crap. A good bike for the open road (straight & flat highways) but not for the curves. Good luck with your mods.
This is good advice. The the proper trail is very important for safe handling of the bike. If it is too high than low speed handling will be very bad. If it is too short than it gets harder to conrol at high speed and even can be dangerous.

Choppers can be hard to get right but I know that it isn't impossible.

You can find some very interesting information on the internet in regard to rake and trail for bikes. Pretty interesting reading. You might not have to do too much to improve the handling and still keep the chopper look.

This thread has a few trail calculator links: http://www.xlforum.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1129

Gary

This might help with the concept of trail. This is extracted from Tolle, the European master of front end engineering.

http://xlforum.net/photopost/data/500/239trail-med.jpg

But from experience, nothing is set in tablets of stone.

Dug
chopperkit.com

If you just start cutting and welding 9 out of 10 times the bike will end up handeling like crap. If you do the math you can rake a bike to extremes and still have a machine that is safe and handles pretty good. The post above is right on the money on rake and trail.....Here is another site that will help you.

http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/rakeandtrail.html

People that tell you that raking a bike cannot be done safely are full of S**T and have most likely never done it.
Take your time and good luck to you!

have most likely never done it.


That's right. I've never owned or ridden a raked frame. I only know what I read here and in mags. As long as you know what you're after and understand that the handling will be affected to some degree,, it's ok. I prefer canyon carving so it's out of the question for me. Good Luck!

Pilot's post is right on the money. It's all about the trail. I have the Paughco 40-degree frame, so I fine-tuned the trail with raked trees. Neck height is important in this whole thing too. Once you get all your figures together, plug them into one of the rake/trail calculators and you will know how many degrees of rake you need in the trees (and obviously longer fork tubes.)

Ive had some that had alot of rake.As long as your trail is right then you are golden man.Measure your rake then go from there.Let us know what it measures.

Now I get ragged on but I have had 6 degre trees for like 4 years and have decent measured trail(though lower than stock), never had a lick of problems in like 15,000 miles. but it might just be me.

Ive had some that had alot of rake.

Then this will be the time to ask. Are you riding with stock geometry now and is there any real difference in handling? I ask because something in my head says that if the wheel base is lengthened, the gyroscopic effect will increase, negating a certain amount of handling ability.

That being said, it might help to define "handling" as an individual may see it. I ride in the N. Ga. mtns a lot and my definition would differ from someone in Indianna that rides the grids or in the city.

I have a 58 Ironhead, it has a 45 degree rake, no frame stretch, a welded on hard-tail. I was told the forks were 8 inches over, they measure 39 inches from the top of the top tree to the center of the wheel.
.............So, who out there owns, owned, or ridden raked bikes. If you know the rake, stretch, front end (type, length) or any other dimensions, or other factors, post it, with your handling thoughts of it.

Dug had previously posted a note on the aspect of trail. The rake of the neck, trees, length of forks and other variables set your trail (negative or positive) The best online source to understand how all these geometrics work to give you proper trail can be found here.

http://64.172.168.34/neatstuff/rakeandtrail.htm

It will help you figure the trail of your bike.

This is taken from.... http://www.chopperhandbook.com/

Hope this helps
Peace

I ran my 71 Norton 'THE SNORTSTER' with a custom frame and about 8-10" over. I had no handling problems what so ever....unless you consider going into a tight curve a problem. Here's a pic

I'm bringing this Thread forward for Everett. Check the post by Big Daddy Chop above.

On my old bike it had 34 degrees of rake in the head tube. I put 7 degree trees on it, and it handled just like stock. If the rake is in the trees, it won't affect the handling as much as having all of the rake in the head tube. The key word here is TRAIL. The company I bought my trees from, Morton's Custom Cycles, did their homework, and set the rake in the trees such that the trail was uneffected. That floppy feel your talking about is the condition that happens when the trail is off. Like I said I had a total rake of 41 degrees, with a 2 inch lowered rear, and she handled great, because the TRAIL was within stock limits. My guess is that your frame was "garage raked" i.e. to make it look good, and that's why it's scary as hell at speeds under about 30 mph.

joe