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cc rider
21st October 2011, 02:27
hello all, trying to figure out a way to make a clutch hub holding tool other than the one using old clutch plates, as i do not have old clutch plates. is there another method. i was told i could just use a impact gun but then i heard that could knock the flywheel out of balance. thanks

Mr.Gordon
21st October 2011, 02:34
Some guy's here use an iron bar that lock's onto the teeth of the primary chain sprocket's, from the top teeth on the clutch basket to the middle of the crank sprocket. I use an impact to do it, haven't had any problem's. But then again , I am not beating the crap out of the nut's either.

nikki
21st October 2011, 03:33
Some guy's here use an iron bar that lock's onto the teeth of the primary chain sprocket's, from the top teeth on the clutch basket to the middle of the crank sprocket. I use an impact to do it, haven't had any problem's. But then again , I am not beating the crap out of the nut's either.+1 on the impact wrench. Nikki

IronMick
21st October 2011, 03:50
For the clutch basket i do something similar to this using two pieces of 1/8" steel stock. Sorry no pic.

http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr227/mdawdy/Tools/EngineSprocketNut.jpg

Hopper
21st October 2011, 04:05
From memory the piece of flat-iron bar is 4 inches long.
More pics and details somewhere in this special tools thread:
http://xlforum.net/vbportal/forums/showthread.php?t=395586

DR DICK
21st October 2011, 05:23
the apparent violence of the impact gun does raise questions of damage. as i got more experience i came to believe the opposite.

over time i saw more damage from using hand tools. this damage wasnt from the big wrenches.

it was from the tremendous forces that the 'holding tools' can at times, transmit into components as it gets jambed between them. if not carefull the jambing leverage that can be transmitted becomes large enuff to wreck stuff. most often from when a tool is used between clutch drum teeth and motor sprkt teeth. broken teeth happens from this.

but more drastic is the damage done to dry clutch drums over the years. loose dog rivets, and egg shaped bending of drum profile are the main result. these are two of the dozen 'hidden things' that makes impossible to keep oil from leaking into clutch. and thats one of the reasons for the 'they cant be sealed' belief.

takin a few minutes and evaluating the holding tool your using to see if leverage is minimized is a good idea. you will see that the jambing action is forcing the sprocket shaft and trans mainshaft away from each other. imparting a bending moment into both. not cool.

the harder you wrench, the more bending force.

when using impact gun no holding tools are needed. thats a giant plus in my book.

no holding tools are needed because the torque from the gun can act against something that the hand wrench cant.

inertia. of the stationary assm that the tite nut is a part of.

before the gun torque can spin the motor or trans it must accelerate that mass into rotation. thats the hidden beauty of the gun. it dont even transmit enuff force INTO an asssm to get it to spin. most all the force is absorbed at the socket-nut junction.

especially at the socket. thats why the socket heats up as it works against a frozen nut.

to illustrate: whats the component that fails most often when using a gun? not the nut or bolt. its the socket. so to loosen a tite nut while imparting the least force into your flywheel tapers--- use a thin wall socket that flexes then breaks rather than a impact socket. if you snap a socket who cares? you get a free replacement.

if you force your motor/trans into a state of less integrity with a holding tool--- do you get a free repair job?

and theres no way a gun that you can hold in your hand can impart any force, even remotely, of the magnitude your motor imparts to itself every time you ride it.

3221
21st October 2011, 08:53
I did something similar on my bike as the pic shows of the single piece of steel. I used 2 pieces instead of 1. They were 4 1/2" long by 1 1/2" wide and I drilled holes in them for 1/4-20 bolts. I simply put the 2 flat bars of steel in place, put the bolts in the holes & tightened the bolts down.

russzx6
21st October 2011, 11:36
I think this is one of your pics Hopper?

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll65/russzx6/primary008-1.jpg

ps. stopped raining up there yet mate?

Hopper
21st October 2011, 11:57
Yeah, looks like my orange inspection paint on the trapdoor bolts. Who else would be that anal/absent minded???

This type of locking tool is factory workshop manual recommended procedure on several bikes I have owned over the years, including Laverda and BSA. I have used it for years with no damage to sprockets or cases etc.

In operation, it seems the force of the flat-iron is trying to spread the two sprockets apart, while the equal amount of tension in the primary chain is trying to pull them together, so it all balances out pretty much.

To avoid damaging teeth, it is essential to cut the flat iron to the correct length and round the ends off a bit so it seats good and firm at the base of the teeth. And it must be wide enough to seat on all three teeth in order to spread the load. And then use steady force rather than jumping up and down on the socket handle. Use a piece of pipe over the socket handle if necessary.

piniongear
21st October 2011, 12:08
The very best clutch tool you can make is to take two old discarded clutch plates....... one steel plate and one fiber plate.

To make the tool:
To the steel plate you weld on a 'handle' made out of a piece of scrap steel.
Then drill both the steel plate and the fiber plate with 3 holes.
Into these holes go bolts with nuts.
You have now bolted both plates together and the tool is finished.

You put the plates (tool) into the clutch basket.
The steel plate registers into the hub slots and the fiber plate registers in the clutch drum slots.
This locks the hub and basket together just like you have a complete clutch installed.
The handle rests against the foot peg, brake lever shaft or what have you.

Wrench away. This tool puts no impact on the clutch parts or sprocket teeth.
This is a tool just like the factory clutch tool.

Yeah, you have to scrounge up two clutch plates and have a welder, or know someone who has one, but once built you never have to be concerned again with not having a proper clutch tool.
pg

cc rider
21st October 2011, 15:33
thanks everyone. i dont have old clutch plates to make the one, although that looks like thats the way to go. so its a impact gun for me. you guys have used them and my mechanic who is the only one i'll let work on my bike said thats what he uses, so its of to the tool store for me. thanks