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funnythebunny
22nd December 2011, 01:12
... is very difficult when you have no one to turn to. As a minority and shorter than most of my fellow servicemen in my unit, I was constantly harrased, bullied, picked-on, ordered to perform tasks that would normally would have been done by lower ranked or assigned as punishment. It happened constantly, which is one of many reason why I transfered to work the graveyard shift on the flightline, you get to work alone in darkness.

To this date I resented the way that they treated me; I'm sure in some sadistic way it must have been fun and funny to do it, but it wasn't for me. It did however taught me to do better, and ironically, to be a better person, and knowing that I served with pride, holding my head up high and state that I am a Veteran.

I'm sure by now you have all heard on the news about the charges against 8 soldiers for the death of Pvt Danny Chen (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/22/us/8-charged-in-death-of-fellow-soldier-us-army-says.html), the son of chinese immigrants. Born and raised in Lower Manhattan, Danny wanted nothing more than to serve in the USA, and eventually be able to join the NYPD. I was there with my fellow PGRs at his wake; I was ashamed of what his country has done to him.

I hope that the truth finally comes out about this; I hope those responsible for his ordeals are found guilty, demoted, sent to Fort Leavenworth and untimately, discharged with a dishonorable record, one that will follow them for the rest of their lives.

We are in debt to Pvt Chen and his family and should never allow this to happen again.

flashedwards
22nd December 2011, 01:34
If this is truly a case racism, then the full weight of the UCMJ should come to rest on the soldiers (including the officer) that were involved in this young man's tragic death. For some reason, which I can't explain, I feel that there must be more to this story. Is it possible that Private Chen did something to bring this on himself? He's not here to defend himself so I really shouldn't read more into it than what the article says. I just have an odd feeling about this. But as I said if the others are responsible for his death then they should be punished as harshly as permitted by law.
Flash

Ireeman
22nd December 2011, 01:35
Trice up .....the smoking lamp is lit.

Rico 05R
22nd December 2011, 01:49
The allegations in this case if true, are horrendous. If found guilty the 7 enlisted men need to be thrown into Leavenworth and forgotten. The officer should be shot.

Boom-Boom
22nd December 2011, 02:01
Any way you look at this, it sucks. As the father of two minority kids, we have all had our share of BS to put up with since they were babies. Fortunately, they're both in their twenties now and more than able to stand up for themselves. They also have good family and close friends of many ethnic backgrounds including white who would take up for each other any time. Quite a while ago, one of my white buddies heard someone cussing my wife in a car behind her in town while tied up in some traffic. Evidently she wasn't turning quick enough. Matt had a little trouble trying to pull the stupid SOB through the half open window of the idiot's car. He gave up when the guy started to lock his arm up in the closing window. Matt, who we call Lurch, punched the window once for good measure and walked away. My wife never knew what happened until a week later. I laughed until I almost puked. Anyway, you've got to surround yourself with good people. My dad did somehting very similar in the service standing up with one of his black buds in the early 1950s. Guys like Danny Chen have a lot of crap in their heads that most people have no understanding of. It's too bad his officers and friends didn't have his back even in the unklikely case that he was an asshole. Sorry for the rambling, but this topic always strikes a cord with me the way my family is built. I'll be keeping the young trooper's family in my prayers.

rottenralph
22nd December 2011, 02:18
Ignorant people are everywhere. The military is no exception. Young ignorant men in a crappy situation don't always make good decisions. Leavenworth is a bad place to spend your youth. I am sure karma will issue penalties to those that did any hazing and to those that did nothing about it. Both equally guilty if true.

Ireeman
22nd December 2011, 02:31
Ocean does na care on this one...sort it out.

When the waves are over 50 feet.....all are equal in the eyes of Poseidon.

fusion213
22nd December 2011, 03:07
How sad, over a water heater. Sucks that no one stopped that nonsense.

chrisfla
22nd December 2011, 03:25
You think THAT'S bad? Try being a lesbian in a barracks with 7 women and 250 men. And back in those days (77-79), they didn't care that I was raped. They probably thought I needed it.

I would not wish the time I spent in the Army on my worst enemy. But you know -- whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

vettelover84
22nd December 2011, 03:41
Its hard to believe this all happened within just this small group. Most units are decently sized....

Every quarter we are trained on the same stuff. Equal Opportunity, Suicide prevention, Sexual harassment, etc etc... This kid, rest his soul, had resources available to him to report misconduct. Just because these people out ranked him doesn't mean they would not have been investigated for their actions toward him.

I really hope it wasn't a case of racial bigotry. Its just sick to act that way. This kid took his own life for a reason though. It needs to be investigated.

Lets not call these guys guilty till the facts come out...

lostNdallas
22nd December 2011, 03:54
I kinda lean in the same direction as flashedwards in that there seems there might be much more to the story than what's in the papers.

That said, as a Japanese, I never experienced any racism above or beyond the level that anyone else received to my knowledge. Also, while in combat zones, we were never under the same stress as forward ground units ( I was on a battleship) so I can't relate to the interpersonal atmosphere in such a place.

Lastly, I've come to read all news with a skeptical eye, even the venerable NYT due to ever increasing political influences in main stream journalism. I try not to take anything for granted.

I will say that it always saddens me to read about incidents like this. Whenever I start to think that racism might be going away, something like this happens to wake me back up.

Ireeman
22nd December 2011, 04:28
You think THAT'S bad? Try being a lesbian in a barracks with 7 women and 250 men. And back in those days (77-79), they didn't care that I was raped. They probably thought I needed it.

I would not wish the time I spent in the Army on my worst enemy. But you know -- whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger.
May i be the first to express my outrage...from the oldest service. USCG.

funnythebunny
22nd December 2011, 18:54
Sadly, a court marshal and a dishonorable discharge is likely the only thing they'll do. In the eyes of those with honor, it's a stab in the heart; Pvt Chen's family will never understand how the military works, so they'll never see justice being served.

Bullies never get to know just how demoralizing it is to be picked on; Columbine was a wake up call, as teachers were known to turn away when they witnessed these two being bullied. Eventually, they took matters into their own hands. Pvt Chen had more honor than these two, taking no one with him...

Boom-Boom
22nd December 2011, 19:05
Bullies never get to know just how demoralizing it is to be picked on; Columbine was a wake up call, as teachers were known to turn away when they witnessed these two being bullied. Eventually, they took matters into their own hands. Pvt Chen had more honor than these two, taking no one with him...

The worst ones do know what it's like. Usually at the hands of their dumbass parents. The other kind usually just need a smash in the mouth from the one being picked on. The Columbine kids were ignored by their shit for brains parents - another kind of abuse. Chen obviously had good parents from what we can read anyway, and God bless them in their remaining years. I usually stay away from this OT stuff, but thanks for bringing it up. It really does need to stop. With parents continually distancing themselves from their kids, it's just going to get worse as time goes on.

redi2ride
22nd December 2011, 20:27
I get it. I am Caucasian,BUT was the recipient of alot of bullying growing up. Kids/Young men will mess with anyone who can't defend them selves.I was smaller than everyone and very poor. Hand sewn clothes in high school in an intercity school is like wearing a kick my ass sign. I was also raised EXTREME christian. This ment to me that if someone beats your ass,get up and walk away. Naturally I became the whooping child. BUT!!! unless those boys put the gun to his head and pulled the trigger or orcistrated a situation that forced his suicide. I don't agree with such extreme sympathy driven punishments mentioned here. I believe misconduct punishment is in order. even assault and battery. but Do not charge them for his death.

Could you imagine how far the law will take things in future cases if we start punishing people for being assholes? Maybe the military should look into the unrealistic pressure the family put on this boy. Making him feel like they wouldn't understand if he couldn't cope with the military life.Maybe MOM and DAD are the real bullies.................

PS. my wife and children are Hispanic. I personally had to bump chest's with a state side marine in Walmart's parking lot because he verbally assaulted my "Mexican" father in law(Vietnam Vet)((Heavy Artillary/"Tunnel Rat"))!!!I wanted to tear his F'n throat out when I heard the words coming out of his mouth.

jharback
22nd December 2011, 20:32
I get it. I am Caucasian,BUT was the recipient of alot of bullying growing up. Kids/Young men will mess with anyone who can't defend them selves.I was smaller than everyone and very poor. Hand sewn clothes in high school in an intercity school is like wearing a kick my ass sign. I was also raised EXTREME christian. This ment to me that if someone beats your ass,get up and walk away. Naturally I became the whooping child. BUT!!! unless those boys put the gun to his head and pulled the trigger or orcistrated a situation that forced his suicide. I don't agree with such extreme sympathy driven punishments mentioned here. I believe misconduct punishment is in order. even assault and battery. but Do not charge them for his death.

Could you imagine how far the law will take things in future cases if we start punishing people for being assholes? Maybe the military should look into the unrealistic pressure the family put on this boy. Making him feel like they wouldn't understand if he couldn't cope with the military life.Maybe MOM and DAD are the real bullies.................

I have a tendency to agree. This seems to me like a perfect example of overreaching by the prosecution. Should they be charged? Of course but, certainly not with his death. A suicide is just that. A suicide.

redi2ride
22nd December 2011, 20:40
I had to edit my last post. I dislike bigots very much. Just had to get that off my chest.

86snortster
22nd December 2011, 20:45
[QUOTE=chrisfla;3690806]You think THAT'S bad? Try being a lesbian in a barracks with 7 women and 250 men. And back in those days (77-79), they didn't care that I was raped. They probably thought I needed it.

I would not wish the time I spent in the Army on my worst enemy. But you know -- whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger.


While im certain it must have been horrible..Unlike PVT Chen,at least you lived to tell the tale..

Boom-Boom
22nd December 2011, 20:51
I had to edit my last post. I dislike bigots very much. Just had to get that off my chest.

I hear you. You're justified in your anger. If I'd have seen it, I would have been right beside you in the parking lot. There are more of us out there than anyone realizes, and we have got to keep the balls to speak up. Keep the faith, man.

jharback
22nd December 2011, 20:53
You think THAT'S bad? Try being a lesbian in a barracks with 7 women and 250 men. And back in those days (77-79), they didn't care that I was raped. They probably thought I needed it.

I would not wish the time I spent in the Army on my worst enemy. But you know -- whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger.


Unlike PVT Chen,at least you lived to tell the tale..

She survived because she was mentally stronger than Pvt Chen. I doubt the Pvt Chen was raped. He might have been harassed and harangued, possibly even some physical abuse. But, he probably had nothing done to him that was, anywhere near, as bad as being raped.

Chris must have gone through hell for a few years. She survived it and grew stronger. She's a survivor. Kudo's to her!

redi2ride
22nd December 2011, 21:14
.................................................. ........................................Reverence for you.sorry.

86snortster
23rd December 2011, 01:49
She survived because she was mentally stronger than Pvt Chen. I doubt the Pvt Chen was raped. He might have been harassed and harangued, possibly even some physical abuse. But, he probably had nothing done to him that was, anywhere near, as bad as being raped.

Chris must have gone through hell for a few years. She survived it and grew stronger. She's a survivor. Kudo's to her!

Like i said it must have been horrible,i could only imagine, but not as bad as death!..yes, kudos to her for makin it through..

LuckyThirteen08
23rd December 2011, 02:12
The chen story is sad enough,But bad things happen all over the world,That shit right there has no place in the military, As far as being a minority and being mistreated,I disagree with that,Im a former Soldier and US veteran myself. I never disrespected anyone due to race,color,or religion.Served in south korea as well as two tours of duty in Iraq.We had korean nationals known as a katusa that served with the US Army to help american soldiers within the unit better understand the hangul language.I befriended a katusa over there and spent every free weekend down range with him,What better way to see the REAL KOOL stuff in korea??? Make a friend with someone who has spent there whole life there. Im from southern GA the capital of racism and alot of my fellow serviceman were african american,We served together,Partied together,even split the hooker difference together.Im sorry that the military life wasnt for you but making other serviceman look bad because you hated your job is total an utter bullshit.No offense,Just the truth. If you are a vet you know the equal oppurtunity clause and the UCMJ better than anyone else.

zakk1775
23rd December 2011, 02:40
I joined the Marine Corps 8 months before I graduated high school, and miss it everyday. Getting out was the biggest mistake I ever made. I tried to get back in a few years ago but due to decisions I made regarding tattoos kept me out. With that being said I served with black men, mexicans, and beleive it or not a gay guy. whatever your personal convictions are about race, or sexaul orientation you need to leave that at the door. Anyone with the testicular fortatude to serve this beloved country deserves to be treated with respect. It is a shame that one who wears a uniform and is willing to put himself in harms way to uphold the freedoms and liberties many take for granted would suffer any amount of discrimination from those who are supposed to be his brothers. Thank you all for service and I pray our children follow in our footsteps and can march across the graduation deck of whatever branch of service they choose, with thier heads held high and their chests puffed out with pride.

LuckyThirteen08
23rd December 2011, 02:50
I joined the Marine Corps 8 months before I graduated high school, and miss it everyday. Getting out was the biggest mistake I ever made. I tried to get back in a few years ago but due to decisions I made regarding tattoos kept me out. With that being said I served with black men, mexicans, and beleive it or not a gay guy. whatever your personal convictions are about race, or sexaul orientation you need to leave that at the door. Anyone with the testicular fortatude to serve this beloved country deserves to be treated with respect. It is a shame that one who wears a uniform and is willing to put himself in harms way to uphold the freedoms and liberties many take for granted would suffer any amount of discrimination from those who are supposed to be his brothers. Thank you all for service and I pray our children follow in our footsteps and can march across the graduation deck of whatever branch of service they choose, with thier heads held high and their chests puffed out with pride.

+1 and rep to you. I was United States Army Active Duty,14R. but like in my above post,everyone i served with , i treated with respect. Would be proud to call them my brothers.

LuckyThirteen08
23rd December 2011, 03:41
Its hard to believe this all happened within just this small group. Most units are decently sized....

Every quarter we are trained on the same stuff. Equal Opportunity, Suicide prevention, Sexual harassment, etc etc... This kid, rest his soul, had resources available to him to report misconduct. Just because these people out ranked him doesn't mean they would not have been investigated for their actions toward him.

I really hope it wasn't a case of racial bigotry. Its just sick to act that way. This kid took his own life for a reason though. It needs to be investigated.

Lets not call these guys guilty till the facts come out...

It wasnt a case of racial bigotry man, This shit should have been handled long before it instigated a real issue, which is what it came to. I was a soldier until 2006.This wouldnt have happened within a unit,Rank be damned, there would have been a fight if we knew our fellow soldiers were doing shit like that,Anything you do in the military doesnt just fall on you,It falls on your unit.I hate that this happened but ppl shouldnt shun the men that live,eat,breathe and die for them,Alot of times they are eating,breathing,and dieing in the process of doing it. I hate that the military has to deal with this type of thing because of the state of out gov. right now, But the men who serve arent part of the government and they are just like me,They have integrity.They would die before they would be shamed. And do it with honor.The same as you and i.

zakk1775
23rd December 2011, 10:58
What I have say at this point is likely to not be to popular. I just now took a minute to read the article about Private Chen.While it is tragic that he is now dead, the fault lies with Private Chen alone. No troops should be charged with his death. I'm not suggesting that what they did was right, it wasn't, but to charge others with manslaughter for a suicide is offensive to me. Suicide is a perminate solution for a temperary problem, a route taken by those who in a moment of weakness, depression, anger, or self pity .......ect, see no other option.No one puts the gun in their mouth or the noose around their neck. A man I know just shot himself in the head a few months ago becasue his wife threatened to leave him. Should we now charge her in his death? When I was in high school my neighbor shoot and killed his self, and believe me he wife was less than pleasent. Should we know charge her with his death? My brother died on his 27th birthday by crashing his car into a telephone pole. Should I sued the bar that sold him alocohol when he was already drunk, or should I sue Anheuser Busch for makeing such a tasty product? Or should I sue his girlfriend, who was sober, for letting him drive? No it was Ben's ( my brother) fault and his alone.My other brother overdosed on herion and now at almost 28 acts like he's 7 or 8 years old and cannot take care of himself, should I sue the drug dealer? We cannot keep searching and searching putting blame on others to help easy our pain. My heart goes out to Private Chens family and loved ones, but this final action lies souly on Private Chens shoulders.
With that being said yes I do believe that the soldiers who threw rocks at him, or shouted racial slurs should be charged with that. The rocks did take hazing to far and was in poor taste to say the least. But has anyone else read the article about his death? In a letter home Chen said "People crack jokes about Chinese people all the time; I'm running out of jokes to come back at them." Is it posible that there was no racism involved? Is it posible that the soldiers thought the racial jokes were just that, jokes, due to the fact that Chen was making jokes aswell? We had a black guy in out plt we called Cookie. There was no racism there, he had fun at our expense aswell.
Just a thought

funnythebunny
23rd December 2011, 18:16
It wasn't just racism; it was bullying. In the civilian life, they would just be charged with their actions; in the military, you are charged with not just your actions, but its consequences.
This is what sets the difference between military life & the UCMJ and civilian life with its judiciary system, and why most military vets seem to be the best equipped for a life of pride, honor and the understanding of the true meaning of patriotism...

zakk1775
25th December 2011, 05:10
The members of our military should be held to a higher standard but there needs to be a line drawn, and charging these young men with chen's death crosses it. I refuse to believe it is now, has ever been, or ever will be right to charge anyone with homicide when someone killed themself. Why not charge Colt? they made the weapon. Why not charge the ammo manufacture? It's a joke. It's a joke they anyone but chen (or anyone who commits suicide) would be at fault for pulling the trigger, and it sickens me that other were to think that anyone else is to blame. It's time we all stop passing the buck, it's time we start putting the blame where it belongs, it's time to stand up and say I'm wrong, it's my fault. It's time we all grow up, stop acting like little chidren, aand start taking responsibility for our own actions.

sportycafe87
25th December 2011, 05:54
The members of our military should be held to a higher standard but there needs to be a line drawn, and charging these young men with chen's death crosses it. I refuse to believe it is now, has ever been, or ever will be right to charge anyone with homicide when someone killed themself. Why not charge Colt? they made the weapon. Why not charge the ammo manufacture? It's a joke. It's a joke they anyone but chen (or anyone who commits suicide) would be at fault for pulling the trigger, and it sickens me that other were to think that anyone else is to blame. It's time we all stop passing the buck, it's time we start putting the blame where it belongs, it's time to stand up and say I'm wrong, it's my fault. It's time we all grow up, stop acting like little chidren, aand start taking responsibility for our own actions.



I believe the purpose of charging the men who bullied and tormented Chen with manslaughter is to set a precedent for individuals that dont realize just how much their actions are affecting others, especially in a work place or military setting, and more importantly in circumstances where children or teenagers who are too young and immiature to really understand how to prioritize life are being tormented and tortured and take their own life, those who drove that teen or child to make that decision should be punished severely to set a precedent. But then again Chen was a grown man and a member of the military one would think he would be mentally stronger than that..but only he knew what he was going through. But yes as an active duty military member myself i can tell you that they make numerous resources available to you when it comes to hazing or harassment, they encourage you to go through your chain of command but if thats not possible they have tons of other individuals or numbers to go through.