I just finished reading the sevice bulletin concerning excessive oil consumption...sounds like a bunch of sheeeeeeeeet to me......I don't know if this has been posted yet, but here goes (I hope)

August 10, 2005
Diagnosing Oil Consumption
There has been a rise in oil consumption complaints on 2005 – 06 model year vehicles. The intent of this Tech Tip is to help you determine if there is an actual oil consumption issue and more accurately diagnose the root cause.
1. First, determine if there is excessive oil consumption by analyzing the customer complaint and vehicle condition.
• Many times fuel delivery related issues cause smoking complaints and may even gas wash cylinders leading customers to believe they have an "oil burner" on their hands.
• Is the vehicle modified and what is its state of tune?
• Does the EFI calibration match the actual components on the vehicle?
• Is there fuel stand off in the air cleaner or manifold?
2. What is excessive consumption?
• Customers may not realize that all engines have some normal rate of oil
consumption, and air cooled engines are more prone to use some oil in the course of normal operation. It would not be unusual for a Twin Cam engine to use one quart of oil in 1500 miles or a middleweight powertrain to use one quart of oil in 1000 miles.
• Oil consumption is impacted by engine condition, mileage, duty cycle (how the vehicle is operated and in what environmental conditions), and accessories.
• Is the vehicle through its break-in period? Remember rings must seat before they will begin to seal the cylinder to piston clearance.
• After a discussion with the customer on the complaint and a brief inspection of the vehicle you should be able to determine if you a dealing with a rich condition, oil consumption complaint, or customer misperceptions.
3. Determine the real rate of consumption.
• To determine the rate of oil consumption bring the oil level to the full line following the "Checking With Warm Engine" procedures outlined in the service manual and tape the filler neck closed.
• Have the customer ride the vehicle and inspect the level at 500-mile intervals to determine the actual rate of consumption. Be careful not to overfill the tank, as that will provide a false indication of consumption.
• If the rate of consumption exceeds the norm, you will need to review duty cycle with the customer and then begin your inspection of the engine's state of-tune accordingly.
4. Verify the system before you tear it down.
• Don't overlook the obvious items before disassembly. How are the oil hoses (tight clamps, routings, etc.)?
• Verify breather operation, this might be a carry-over situation. If you blow lightly into the breather snorkels, there should be some resistance if the umbrella valves are closing properly.
• Verify oil pressure and oil return functions. You might be dealing with an oiling system issue and/or a wet-sumped lower end.
• Take a compression reading and perform a leakdown test. Remember to write down the numbers, Technical Service is sure to ask for them.
• If leak down exceeds 10% determine where it is leaking by. Into the lower end, out the exhaust or intake port, or through a head gasket?
5. Now begin your disassembly based on your findings, and keep both eyes open as you take things apart for clues to the root cause.
• If the leakage was primarily into the crankcase, then you are chasing a piston to cylinder sealing issues. To rule out a barreled or tapered cylinder re check leak down in three places (top - middle - bottom) in the stroke once the rocker arm support plate is removed.
ƒ By the way how did those umbrellas look, and was the rocker box fairly well
scavenged? No clogged return passages right? No signs of leakage at the head
gasket oil returns? Good gasket surfaces?
ƒ Check the piston crown for carbon build up. Washed areas on the edges of the piston crown are a good indication of an "oil pumper" (bad rings or piston to cylinder fit). Solid carbon build up across the piston crown generally indicated it is coming from above.
ƒ With the cylinders off you will be able to more closely examine (and take note of) ring end gap locations. Do they match the service manual recommendations or are they lined up? Also, check the second compression ring, also called the middle or scraper ring, installation. The "dot" should face up, but even more important the outer bevel slants toward the piston and it has a slight chamfer on the ID that goes to the bottom to allow it to function properly. It is rare but sometimes the "dot" is up and ring's taper face is wrong.
ƒ While you are looking at the rings check their wear patterns. A ring that is over spread or twisted during installation will not seal properly.
• Leak down past the valves and into the ports requires you inspect them for bad seats and bent stems, or you may find carbon built up to the point they just were not able to seal the combustion chamber.
ƒ Heavily carbon’ed valves and oil in the intake or exhaust ports (you did
remember to take note of that right?) are indications of leaking valve seals.
ƒ It also pays to look for the unusual, like leakage between the valve guide and the cylinder head. Are the guides loose? Was the head's guide bore scored or damaged during guide installation? This can sometimes be indicated by unusually clean or unusually golden patches in specific spots around the guide.
The same is true if there is actual porosity in the head.
August 10, 2005
Valve Seal Updates
• 2005 models and early production 2006 vehicles use a one-piece valve seal and lower spring seat design (p/n 18094-02) that can cause oil leakage between the guide and the seal when side loaded or miss-installed. These can be identified by the silver seal ring and black rubber material.
• A new version one-piece valve seal and lower spring seat design (p/n 18094-02A) is being implemented into service parts to improve sealing properties and minimize installation issues.
• The first batch of this new seal can be identified by a green seal ring as shown below. Towards the end of the month 18094-02A seal kits will change to an orange colored rubber material to improve visual identification of the new parts.
• Twin Cam 88/88B production will be moving to this design in the near future with middle-weight powertrain and service parts to follow shortly thereafter.
• Please utilize this new design during any future top end services.
Warranty and Service Procedures
• Any individual 18094-02 valve seals in your inventory may be used on Middle-Weightm Powertrain repairs.
• Current engine gasket kits may be used on 2004 - 2006 Sportster and 2003 - 2006 Buell engines.
• Current gasket kits (top end p/n 17052-99B and engine p/n 17053-99A) may also be used on 2004 and earlier Twin Cam 88/88B engines without any special steps.
• When using current gasket kits (top end p/n 17052-99B and engine p/n 17053-99A) on 2005 and 2006 Twin Cam 88/88B models discard the 18094-02 valve seals included
and use part number 18094-02A in their place, and the included seal protector during installation.
•
For warranty repairs that involve the use of these engine gasket kits (p/n 17052-99B & 17053-99A), you may also claim 1 valve seal kit p/n 18094-02A as part of the repair.
These additional parts will only be allowed on MC warranty claims filed against your existing inventory of gasket kits used to repair 2005-2006 Big Twins.
• Future kits will have the new valve seals included so additional parts should not be listed on warranty claims.
18094-02A Valve Seal Identification

They're just coverin the basics......it ain't rocket science...

Most problems of this nature have a simple solution

If my 2004, 883xl sportster used a quart of oil every 1000 miles i would get rid of it. Hello Honda!

That's funny, I had a Honda that went thru a quart of oil in 500 miles, so I sold it and bought a Harley.

I figured, If i'm gonna have to work on a bike, I want to get my money's worth out of it.

i read this with interest cause i work at a vw dealer and vw has had some comsumption problems. they say up to one quart can be consumed every thousand miles. oil changes are at every 5000 miles. do the math and youll see that we are busy replacing engines for worn parts.
i dont know harley warranty but vw doesnt doesnt void it if you dont check your oil, they just fix it for you as long as you identify it. most techs dont check oil level before oil change.

I have never had any type of vehicle use oil. I think that is a crock saying that is normal.

I have never had any type of vehicle use oil. I think that is a crock saying that is normal.

You have been very lucky then...

I have seen a number of different engines, in both automotive and equipment applications that have oil consumption issues. Oil consumption in and of itself is not a huge issue. It's more a matter of how much oil is being used in a specific amount of time.

Having said that, I believe using a quart of oil every 1000 miles is excessive. Less consumption is always better, but we live in an imperfect world... :rolleyes:

Having said that, I believe using a quart of oil every 1000 miles is excessive. Less consumption is always better, but we live in an imperfect world... :rolleyes:

i think it is excessive also, but it seems that no one else does. i had a toyota mech, ford mech, and now hd all say 1 qt per 1000 miles is no big deal. (seen it in writing, too) now i've been lucky and never had a primary vehicle that used that much oil. (i did have one old vw bus while in germany that went through a qt every other day..... but i did say 'primary') if i did, not sure what i would do, if they consider it normal, they wouldn't warranty it, and i wouldn't want to pay for the repair out of pocket..... guess i would be looking at trade in :wonderlan

the general rule for cars was 1quart between oil changes. at least thats what i always thought was acceptable. now every manufacturer has extended thier oil change intervals. im surprised i dont see more broken down cars on the side of the road.
newer haleys are like every 5000 miles? does that sound right?
my 2002 is every 2500 and i do them at like 2000

my 05 1200 has 4,000 miles on it.
i started using syth at 600 miles.
i have 2,000 miles on my last oil change and have usen 2 cups or less
i did the break in a by the book except i could not leave the break in oil in it 1,000 miles in the summer heat. so i changed at 600 miles. i used no oil in the first 600 miles.

:smoke I've been watching oil consumption threads on this and other forums closely because I have an '05 FatBoy. It seems that H-D switched to different valve seals on '05 BTs (purportedly the same seals as were used very successfully on '04 sporties) and there have been frequent oil consumption problems with them (the BTs NOT the sporties) on intake and/or exhaust (can usually tell if either or both are problems by plug or pipe blackening). So far my bike has used literally no oil between changes @ 1K, 2.5K, 5K and 7.5K but I'm just waiting for it to happen (8700 miles now). Warrantied until 12/06, so I've got another riding season to watch it.

Like others have mentioned I'm not buying that using a quart in 1-1.5K miles is "normal."

Anyway, the only reason I wrote all this is to let you know that the brouhaha involves twinkies, not sporties.

Lefty

According to quite a few members on this forum the problem does'nt seem limited to the 'twinkies'.

During the first 5000 miles on my 04 1200, I'd go through a quart every 1000 miles. I took it easy on the bike for the break-in, but afterwards I rode the :censor out of it. After 5000 miles I went with the HD synthetic and still run the :censor out of it with no excessive oil consumption issues.

I have never had any type of vehicle use oil. I think that is a crock saying that is normal.I used to have a Ford Galaxie 500 that I bought for $50 which used a quart of tranny fluid every 2.5 miles.

Gazza

I used to have a Ford Galaxie 500 that I bought for $50 which used a quart of tranny fluid every 2.5 miles.

Gazza
Hey Gazza, was that a '65, dark blue? If so, when did you buy it? I sold mine in '72.

If it's using a quart every 1000 miles I bet the plugs sure look great! Probably pisses off whoever is ridin behind em. Seems a little excessive to me. Seen some forged piston stuff use a little oil in cold weather until ya warmed em up real good. Remember the old Chevy's with the o-ring valve seals (V-8) that would puff a little blue when ya fired em up. Most the time when ya pulled the heads off the valve seals were long since gone. They still only used a quart every 3000 and thats with 16 valves. Just don't see the oil consumption problems in too many evo's either. Look how many there are. My 1200R has 13,000 miles on it and I have never seen any noticeable oil consumption. The plugs look like new when changed also. You can bet I'd be talkin to someone if that was not the case, (1qt:1000mi), WOW! I'm thinking rings and blow-by myself. Bet they actually screwed up the hone and ring package! Probably saved a few million $$ on some new, better, stuff. I wouldn't think it would consume that much oil without any valve seals installed. Not going to try it though. Looks like a loop hole to get out of sealing it up to me. Imagine that! As stated by others, engines are not usually 100 % sealed. Still doesn't mean there aren't plenty at 90 plus %, and that's not using very much oil.
Live to Ride!
Lucifer

my 05 1200 has 4,000 miles on it.
i started using syth at 600 miles.
i have 2,000 miles on my last oil change and have usen 2 cups or less
i did the break in a by the book except i could not leave the break in oil in it 1,000 miles in the summer heat. so i changed at 600 miles. i used no oil in the first 600 miles.

I ride on 05 1200 custom. It is one years old. I changed from Dino to Syn 3 at 1,000 miles. I broke her in just right. I check my oil religously and I can honestly say that the oil level on a hot check on the jiffy is always at the same level which is just a tick below full. I think an angel in Kansas City put my bike together and yes HD says that my 05 sporty with HD syn3 should be changed every 5,000 miles and every 3,000 on HD dino. Since the 5,000 mile srevice, she is spot on with the oil and I ride my bike. It's no garage queen...

Loco
So. Cal.

1 qt every 1000 miles pretty much negates the reason to even do oil changes. It's on a constant change.

Got a 2005 1200c that smokes like a freight train. done it since it was new. it has 2800 miles on it. put rings on front cyl. and 18094-02 valve seals on it at 1400 miles. still does it. at 2600 miles on it put a brand new head on front cyl. still smoked. went to daytona last week and talked to harley about it and they said they had no problems on sportster but they heard of it on big twins. just get it to opperating temp and rev it up and let off and see if your sportie smokes. i put the new 18094-02a seals on it and have not tried it yet. they look just like the 18094-02 seals but the rubber part is orange. i will let you know what it does thanks jeff

My 04 Roadster has 25000 miles on it(40,000KM) since June 04. During break in it used 1/2 Quart, after that I have only ever added 1/4 quart after about 2500 miles or about the mid point before change time.
BUT, I cant keep the oil tank full to the top, I use Syn3 and if I fill the oil tank to the top it seeps out by the O ring on the oil dip stick, and collects along the edges and valleys of the oil tank and very rarely is visible untill you pull a side cover off.
Therefore the oil tank is kept a a 3/4 full level all the time,, this seems to control the leakage, but it aint burnin it. I have had other follow me for hours and have said nothing when asked.
I drive this bike hard and long,, I see red line more than not.
As far as I can see this bike burns very little oil compared to some of my buddies who have similar probs.
If this thing burned a quart every 1000 miles HD would hear about it,,
Glad I bought the 7 year warranty,, listening the all of this if it starts its covered till 2011.
What I find with most of my buddies is they lug their motors, thinking they need to shift every gear at 2700 rpm,, this burns oil.
This bike has stock cams and heads, it wants and needs to be reved.
After breakin my normal shift RPM is between 5000 and 5500 rpm in every gear. I keep my cruising RPM at 3500-4000 in every gear
It loves it and constantly wants more,,
I live by my mechanics statement when he did my 1000mile inspection,,,
RIDE IT LIKE YOU JUST STOLE IT---and I do all the time.

Sorry I meant to say this bike comes stock with High prf cams and heads.

I used to have a Ford Galaxie 500 that I bought for $50 which used a quart of tranny fluid every 2.5 miles.

GazzaI had a '64, I loved that car! It was fast, and I could fit 5 spares side-by-side in the trunk!

I have no idea what the oil consumption rate on my bike is. It's too hard to determine since it leaves oil spots wherever I park it...:frownthre I can't tell if it's eating oil or just pissin it!

Dad had an old kenworth with a 318 detroit, every morning you put at least 1 gallon in the case. Smoked like a bitch on start up and sweeted out the rest. You think an amf harley leaked oil, if detroit made rocks they would leak!

if my 2006 with 2k liles on used a qt of oil in 1500 miles i would think something is wrong , and that is excessive.

Got a 2005 1200c that smokes like a freight train. done it since it was new. it has 2800 miles on it. put rings on front cyl. and 18094-02 valve seals on it at 1400 miles. still does it. at 2600 miles on it put a brand new head on front cyl. still smoked. went to daytona last week and talked to harley about it and they said they had no problems on sportster but they heard of it on big twins. just get it to opperating temp and rev it up and let off and see if your sportie smokes. i put the new 18094-02a seals on it and have not tried it yet. they look just like the 18094-02 seals but the rubber part is orange. i will let you know what it does thanks jeff


Jeff-
How'd you ever come out on this? Don't let the MoCo screw you into thinking it's normal. More than 3 returns on the same problem and you can have them lemon-law it and then you get a new bike.

I'm with Cbay57 on riding it like you stole it. It runs good, so let it run! If opening the throttle all the way was bad, then it wouldn't open all the way!

Anything of mine that uses a QT of oil in 1000miles is coming apart to find out why !!!
Nothing Normal About It !!!!
I don't care if it's a tractor !

thats funny i found this, i work at a HD dealership and am doing a warrenty fix on a 05 TC88 with this prolbem. in 05 and 06 they used different valve seals then previous years and started seeing them leak, then went to a running change in 06 with new valve seals. the ones that leak have a black seal. the new good ones are orange.

If you develop this problem after the 2 year warranty, is HD still required to fix it under the EPA emissions warranty?

SEMJPM

If you develop this problem after the 2 year warranty, is HD still required to fix it under the EPA emissions warranty?

SEMJPM

Well that i can't answer with a positive yes. the bike i am working on now is past the warrenty time but the owner of the bike had complained about the bike burning oil at 13,000 miles and it was noted on record that the other dealership he had it serviced at said to just keep a eye on it, well he came in to the dealership i work at for a 15,000mi service and still complained about the oil. so we called HD and they picked up the whole bill to have new valve seals installed

Well that i can't answer with a positive yes. the bike i am working on now is past the warrenty time but the owner of the bike had complained about the bike burning oil at 13,000 miles and it was noted on record that the other dealership he had it serviced at said to just keep a eye on it, well he came in to the dealership i work at for a 15,000mi service and still complained about the oil. so we called HD and they picked up the whole bill to have new valve seals installed
ON another forum, one of the guys tore apart and engine and inspected the valve seals. Seems the design of the 'old black' valve seals allows oil to 'puddle' around the base of the seal. When actuated the oil creeps into the cylinder. The new 'orange' seals have been designed so this doesn't happen anymore.

Well that i can't answer with a positive yes. the bike i am working on now is past the warrenty time but the owner of the bike had complained about the bike burning oil at 13,000 miles and it was noted on record that the other dealership he had it serviced at said to just keep a eye on it, well he came in to the dealership i work at for a 15,000mi service and still complained about the oil. so we called HD and they picked up the whole bill to have new valve seals installed

Same deal at my shop.....this bike will be out of warranty by next season (Feb), so we're just tearing it down to replace the valve seals...AND to check the orientation of the rings....

If you develop this problem after the 2 year warranty, is HD still required to fix it under the EPA emissions warranty?

SEMJPM
No, it's not an emissions issue. There are very clear components that a manufacturer must warranty under the EPA emissions warranty, and valve seals are not one of them. When they are talking about emissions, they mean fuel, not oil blowing out the tailpipe.

--Chris

The original post from August 10, 2005 says,
"Does the EFI calibration match the actual components on the vehicle?"
Since Sporties didn't have EFI way back when it came out, they were talking seals across the whole range of bikes.

And they said, "It would not be unusual for a Twin Cam engine to use one quart of oil in 1500 miles or a middleweight powertrain to use one quart of oil in 1000 miles." Twin Cam and middleweight huh? That's pretty much all of them.

Bad parts and corporate bullcrap.

"What I find with most of my buddies is they lug their motors, thinking they need to shift every gear at 2700 rpm,, this burns oil." - Cbay57

So, Cbay57, how does shifting at 2,700 rpm burn oil? Please give us a complete technical breakdown of this process. CC a copy to H-D so they can warn owners of this condition. I'm afraid most owners were completely unaware that 2,700 rpm was "lugging" the engine, and H-D will certainly need to change their owner's manual to reflect this.

GM says 1 quart per 1,000 miles on a car from 0-50,000 miles. 1.5 quarts from 50,001-75,000 miles. Now I've only had one car use that much, it was an old SVO Mustang with a leaky return line from the turbo. I had a Jeep 4.0 with 187k on it when I sold it and I only used .5 quart every oil change and that was most likely from a seeping oil cooler. My SVT Focus loses a tiny amount between oil changes, but no leaks and she regularly exercises the rev limiter. My Sportster used .25-ish quart at the 1k mark, but that was break in. As far as I can tell, at 3,500 miles, it hasn't used much, if any.

Oil use can be attributed to many things. Caddilacs have a TSB out for the Northstars that adress excessive oil consumption as carboned rings, they recommend a top end cleaner to see if that rectifies it. If it doesn't... I also know of a GM TSB on the Cadillacs that adresses a porous block casting with JB Weld, if I remember correctly. Anyone that expects a mass produced engine to seal 100% of the oil and never use any needs to bike a bicycle. The oil is distributed on the cylinder walls on the upstroke of the piston. When the piston is in the downward portion of the stroke, it scrapes most of it clean, but there is always some residual fluid that will be burned. You also have seepage from gaskets that burn off rather than accumulate or drip. You have imperfect valve seals and guides. Those valve seals regulate a small amount into the guides. The oil helps lubricate and cool the hot stems and guides. Once it does it's job, it gets burned off too. Oil can slowly work it's way into the primary via the main shaft seal, etc.

I would love to say my car/motorcycle/truck does not use even a drop of oil, but I realize that due to 'acceptable' variances in mass production that it isn't going to happen 100% of the time. Keep a bottle of synthetic in your saddlebag and check weekly.

Good answer JWLane.

So, Cbay57, how does shifting at 2,700 rpm burn oil? Please give us a complete technical breakdown of this process. CC a copy to H-D so they can warn owners of this condition. I'm afraid most owners were completely unaware that 2,700 rpm was "lugging" the engine, and H-D will certainly need to change their owner's manual to reflect this.

"36. LUGGING ENGINE
Lugging is running the engine at a lower RPM in a condition where a higher RPM (more power/torque) should be implemented. This causes more stress loading on the piston and can lead to increases in engine oil consumption."

Source:

http://www.performancemotoroil.com/40_reasons_for_oil_consumption.html

well after only 6500 miles i tore my bike down for upgrades found 1/8" of baked on sludge on top of the pistons and it was caked on the intake valves. there was oil under the valve stem seals and some pitting on the intake valve seats. this seams to be an ongoing problem with many of these bikes. good thing i tore it down!

6700 miles on my 07 1200N. About 1/3 of a quart consumed in 4000 miles. Mobil 1 V-Twin 20X50.

well after only 6500 miles i tore my bike down for upgrades found 1/8" of baked on sludge on top of the pistons and it was caked on the intake valves. there was oil under the valve stem seals and some pitting on the intake valve seats. this seams to be an ongoing problem with many of these bikes. good thing i tore it down!

and according to your sig line you have NO work from NRHS?

and according to your sig line you have NO work from NRHS?

he has an 04 with the old style seals that the MoCo should replace.

No I did not have any work by NRHS and it does have the old style valve stem seals. Its odd though they were not supposed to be using those in 04.We will see how it does now after my build.

i put drag exhaust on my 05 883 now i get a little popping/backfire out of the exhaust do i need to rejet the carbs

Carbs? How many do you have?