Well, here is a new one for me.

Went to the dyno today at the H-D dealership. Dyno was broke again for the 3rd time in 3 weeks, so I had the service writer listen to my noisy SE cams. He cranked the throttle a couple of times and blue smoke comes out of both pipes. The pipes are now wet with oil.

I told him I missed the 1st to 2nd shift twice and tagged the 7,000 rpm rev limiter. He brings out the lead mechanic to look at it. The guy tells me that since I have a .551" lift SE cam and stock valve springs that I flattened the valve seals when it reved to 7,000 rpm.

I have never heard of anything like this before, but my experience is with the LS1/LS6 Chev/Corvette aluminum motors, so what the hell do I know about the V-Twin.

I called Nallin and talked to Jason. He confirmed that I more than likely did flatten the valve seals. (what a piss poor design)

Anyway, now the heads asre coming off and I'm sending them to Nallin for a Stage 2 upgrade. He said the springs they use would not allow this to happen again.

Anyone here ever hear of flattened valve seals? ... This is a first to me! :frownthre

Oh well, time to start wrenching on this bucket of bolts again!

Ron,

Interesting. In order to flatten your seals the top retainer would have to come in contact with the valve seats. The seal is the only thing in-between and it's only thin rubber. The seals are a one piece design which incorporates the lower spring seat into it. If you see my post on selling my heads I thought I had a leaky seal. It ended up being oil collecting under the seal and leaking down into the port due to the valve spring shims, which were under the spring, I had the shims removed and that should fix it. It may just be oil under the seal as was mine. Only time will tell.

That is why my 883 heads are getting 5/16 valves and older style seals.

I think if you toasted your seals it would smoke all the time.

The .551's are designed to work with the 04 heads. I find it unlikely that the clearance is that small.

Hi Barry,

Well, I hadn't even realized that it was smoking, but if you snap the throttle open while at idle (in neutral) a lot of blue smoke comes out of both pipes. I ran my finger in the pipes, and they are all coated with black goooy oil. This never was the case before missing 2nd two times in a row about 3 days ago.

This is just Fv$king unbelievable!

I was told I would need to replace the cylinder base gaskets when I pull the heads. Can I pull the wrist pins out of the pistons so I can leave the pistons and rings still seated in the cylinders (jugs)? I don't really want to use a ring compressor on it.

yup seen it a few times...

I check the clearance between retainer and seal when I'm fittin new cams...

It's not unsual for me to machine the tops of the giudes down to get more clearance...
'specially with the Teflon seals I used ta use on the exhaust as they are taller...


These are the things ya find out the hard way when all the little things are'nt taken into account when the engine is modified.........

Thanks Stevo ... Well, I guess Nallin will make sure that clearance is ok when they assemble my heads .... I would think ?

I was able to put them in with my finger nails. The cylinder has a slight taper at the bottom to aid in installation. And yes you can pull the pins and leave em in. It helps to have someone help if you go that route to hold the cylinders.

I don't use ring compressors on HD's anyway ........walk it in with ya fingernails....

Ya shouldn't need to replace base gaskets unless you disturb them....

I remove the heads and the put 2 bolts back on with spacer tubes (old SE air cleaner spacers work well) so the barrells don't move....

Yup Nallins will clearance them for that ..... with better springs it probably wont be an issue anyway....

It's hard to judge clearances for too soft a spring.....just go to the correct one...although I'm not a fan of too much spring as it take HP to push it

Hey bota do you have a 04 parts manual? Look at the valve seals.

I don't know if cutting down the seat would help. The seal is a fixed height and it does not move with this new style.

Barry ...ya don't cut the seat ... ya trim the top of the guide.... or ya remove the guide... machine a new one to suit your specs and then push it in to the correct height...

I run circlips in mine now, so they can't drop in....and I have a tool which allows me to fit them to a set depth

On page 3-46 of your owners maual it shows a good photo.

Ya, I meant guides. DOH. Trying to type to fast. Fingers can't keep up with the brain. To much Rum and Coke.

Here's the newer seals.

Will I visually be able to see if the valve seal is flattened once I remove the heads? (I don't think I am going to remove the springs before sending them to Nallin - just leave them intact)

Slide a rag in between the springs to clean off the excess oil and you might be able to see if their split.

I will just spray them down with brake cleaner ... Maybe I can get a good closeup digital photo of them then. I guess I will start to tear it down this weekend ... Even though it's going to be pretty cold in the garage.

So much for my dyno run ... Oh well, I will get a dyno run after the stage 2 heads are installed. I would also like to get some more displacement, but I can't see spending the money just to go from 1200cc to 1250cc. Just don't seem like a big enough change. The 1430cc setup would be nice, but I don't want to pull the whole engine out to get the cases machined ... Just too much money and work as far as I'm concerned.

Thats the same way I figured it. Pull the motor, strip it, split it, bore it, put it back together. No thanks, not until I blow it up. Brake clean will dry out the rubber, but if your stripping it anyway....

Why not ride it a little more to be sure. If it is just some oil under the seals it may clear up. Hate to see you pull it apart for something that might go away.

You have a good point Barry, but my pipes are really oily. I have a feeling it just ain't a little oil under the seals.

The stock market has been pretty good to me the last 3 months ... I will just spend the money on the heads and make sure there ok ... Got to be worth a few ponies too.

I'd just send 'em straight to Nallins as they are pulled off... this allows them to inspect it fully and they know what they are looking for.

Due to the design of the new seals a seal from another vehicle would probably be nesc to drop the top....

New springs so they don't hit is still the best answer...


Just a note I wouldn't have expected a lot of oil in the exhaust from just seals....Although when you say it only started puffin smoke afer ya over revved it, then tha may be the case.

How was the motor run in???? and has it used an excess amount of oil???

Steve .. It hasn't used any oil since I over-reved it less than a week ago. Missed 2nd 2 times in a row while shifting at 6,500 (that's never happened before)

It didn't smoke at all after the cam install either.

Turbota

Keep us posted on what Happened!!! I'm getting ready to do a Stage 1 conversion on my '03 with the XB heads and using the .551's!!
Sure don't need any Problems!!!:yikes

Mike ...

I sure will. I am now thinking of replacing the 9.7 to 1 pistons also with something around 10.5 to 1 while I have the top of the motor apart.

I just don't know what would be the best way to go about this. I would like to find a high CR 'drop-in' replacement piston, but I think they will need to be fitted to get the proper clearance. Might just bore the cylinders .020" or .030" over and have the pistons fitted.

Ron,

G'day Ron....

If your bore is standard then an 0.005" over power hone is all that is needed... no good wastin material...

Well, here is the pistons. The front piston is coated with carbon. The plug was oil soaked. The rear is clean. The pipes were very oily. I can see how the rear pipe was smoking too because it was getting oil though the crossover pipe from the front.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/Turbota/DSCN0490.jpg