Final TC88A MAP program + lots of other data

[Turbota]

Well, after 5 different TC88A custom ignition MAPS, I finally have got what I think is really a good MAP.

I will attempt to explain some of the problem areas I ran into with the various custom MAPS I wrote. First of all, let me explain what the problem is with the timing MAPs you get by just using the various switch positions and not programming your own MAP ... I was a told that the 'Initial Timing' switch controlled the timing at low rpm, while the 'Advanced Slope' switch controlled timing at the high revs. I was told that if the motor pinged below 4,000 rpm, just lower the 'Initial Timing' switch position ... and if it pinged at wide open throttle above 4,000 revs, just lower the 'Advanced Slope' switch position. I just wish it was that easy. In real life, moving either of these switches, in fact changes the timing all the way across the board ... in other words, one effects the other.

Another problem with the TC88A pre-programmed tables is that they were written for a Twin Cam. Due to our Sportys higher compression ratio, what we get when just using the switches is too much timing at low rpm wide open throttle (WOT), but too little timing at high rpm WOT. If we lower the timing at low rpm WOT to a range where the Sporty don't ping, then we wind up with too little timing at high rpm WOT that hurts our top end performance ... Can't get one without the other.

So, the only fix is to design a timing MAP that keeps our low rpm timing a little less than a Twin Cam would use ... [without] lowering the timing at high rpm where our higher reving Sporty really shines.

Also, the idle timing is just too high for our engines, so that needed to be addressed too.

The speedo needs to be slowed also when the TC88A is used on a Sporty. In fact, if you set the VSS feq. to the recommended freq. found in the instructions, it will still read too fast. I believe this is because the VSS freq. in the instructions is for an 03 and earlier Sporty. These bikes have a smaller rear tire than the 04 and up bikes (which effects the speedo reading) ... so, the VSS freq. needs to be even set at a lower value than stated in the instructions.

Unlike the MAP tables you get with the various switch positions on the TC88A, you will see that the ignition timing in the MAP program I wrote is exactly the same at 4,500 - 7,000 rpm when operating at Manifold Air Pressures (MAPs) of 30", 28" and 26". In fact, I set this timing to 33 degrees. This is the high rpm WOT area of operation. The reason I programmed it like this is because I noticed the engine's Manifold Air Pressure (MAP) stayed at 30" during WOT up until about 4,500 rpm. As rpm increase well above 4,500 rpm, the intakes MAP pressure would start to decrease from 30" down to almost 26" as rpm climbed high (see 1st photo below). I believe this is because of the high velocity in the carb at very high rpm WOT operation ... If I didn't program the timing to remain the same within this range, I found that the timing would increase too much as the MAP dropped from 30" down to 28, and then down to 26" as the rpm increased above 4,500 revs. This is a bad deal! So, the only fix was to keep the timing the same when at 30", 28" and 26" MAP pressure when the revs are [above] 4,500 at WOT. ... Again, this problem had to be fixed since the pre-programmed timing values when using just switch positions do not address this problem ... and what you get is the timing creeping up at WOT when accelerating above 4,500 revs.

Below is a graph that was downloaded during a 2,500 - 7,000 rpm WOT run while in 2nd gear. Looking at the green line, you will see how the MAP pressure climbs straight up to 30" as the throttle goes wide open at 2,500 rpm. Then, the MAP starts dropping from 30" down as low as 26" as rpm continue to climb above 4,500 rpm.

Note: I partially errased lines on these graphs that do not pertain to what I'm talking about ... makes it easier to understand.

http://images.picpile.com/uploads/946034139.jpg


____________________________________________


Below is the ignition MAP that I finally settled on. It really performs very well. You can see that the timing is steady at 33 degrees from 4,500 - 7,000 rpm when at 30", 28" and 26" manifold pressure. You can also see that timing at idle (1,000 rpm at 16" MAP) is 20 degrees. Luckily these engine actually idle at well below 16", so there is no problem with the timing creaping down if MAP goes above 16" ... It just wont happen.

http://images.picpile.com/uploads/859642046.jpg

_______________________________________________


Below is the most important graph I am posting ... It is a graph that actually shows the relationship of rpm and timing while at WOT. The red line starts at 2,500 rpm and 24 degrees timing when the throttle is fully opened. As rpm climbs, so does the timing ... until exaclty 5,000 rpm, where the timing stays at 33 degrees all the way to the 7,000 rpm rev limiter. This really shows a "text book" picture of the way a timing curve should look like ... It climbs as your accelerating, and then at a preset rpm, it levels off and stays rock steady from there on ... You won't get that kind of a timing curve by just using the switches on the TC88A. I tried ... and what you get is a timing curve that's all over the place.

BTW, the 'blip' at 7,000 rpm is the rev limiter 'shutter'.

http://images.picpile.com/uploads/187972683.jpg

_________________________________________


The chart below shows a steady 12" MAP pressure while idling at 1,000 rpm.

The 2nd chart below shows the 20 degrees of timing while also idling at 1,000 rpm.

http://images.picpile.com/uploads/467234912.jpg

http://images.picpile.com/uploads/897395365.jpg

_________________________________________


The last photo is a 'real time' photo of the idle rpm, MAP pressure, timing and electrical system voltage.

Note: The timing is just a hair above 20 degrees because the rpm is a hair above 1,000.

http://images.picpile.com/uploads/838070475.jpg


I think Twin Tec should include a program something like this on there website that folks could download after purchasing a TC88A for there late model Sporty. Certainly they may want to make changes to it (don't we all) ... but it would serve them better than using the various switch positions that were designed for a Twin Cam .... oh well

So, there it is girls and boys. :)

[Turbota]

And as usual ... Send me an email at turbota@cox.net if you want the new MAP program.

BTW, I trashed all the other programes I wrote. You may want to do the same with the other programs I sent you previously ... there is just too many problems with them.

Be adviced ... Both your timing switches will [not] be operable with this new program. You [will] still need to use your rev limiter switches (No rev limit data is provided in the new MAP program).

[Scout99]

Ron - Great post...thanks for the education...

[Turbota]

Thank you carl ... :)

[dodgenbullets]

thats some excellent work turbota.Twin Tec should hire you as a consultant or something.

[radar]

I guess I'll reconsider the TC88 over the S&S.
Thanks Ron for all your effort.
I won't have time to set my bike up untill spring, but I think the deal will be done come tax time.
What exactly will I need to load/ modify the maps you've built once I have the Ignition installed.
This stuff is great.

[Turbota]

All you need is the TC88A ignition module

Link to the module: http://www.daytona-twintec.com/TC88A.html
_______________________________

You will need 2 programs you can download to your computor from the 2 links below:

http://www.daytona-twintec.com/download/PC_Link_TC88/PC_Link_TC88.htm

http://www.daytona-twintec.com/download/TC88A_Log/TC88A_Log.htm
_________________________________

You will need a special cable that will connect between the motorcycle and your laptop so you can download the MAP program into your TC88A module.

If you can't borrow someone elses cable, you will need to purchase a TCFI-C PC Link Interface Cable for $80

Note: The TC88A ignition module can be purchased at discounted prices sometimes on Ebay. See this post: http://www.xlforum.net/vbportal/forums/showthread.php?t=17301

[radar]

Good to go.
Went ahead and bought the module and cable.
My wifes gonna be pissed.
I figure if I get this done now, when I go for the real high perf stuff next winter, I'll be that far ahead.

[Scout99]

Can someone make this a STICKY? This information is too valuable to get hidden under the latest joke of the day...

[Turbota]

I haven't played around with the "Rear Cyl Offset" timing yet. Mine is still set at zero. If any of you have tested any offset, let us know how things went.

I am wondering if some off set (either plus or minus) will effect idle quality too.

Ron,

[seajay]

Turbota. Thanks for doing all the leg work. :clap You going hit the dyno?

[BlueSnBikes]

Great stuff Ron!!!

Thanks for all the time and effort. I'm gonna go ahead and get the cable asap and see what I can do. Alot of the stuff you talk about is still a little over my head. Maybe if ya' got a little spare time later, when I get my cable, and you wouldn't mind, you could give me a few pointers to get me going in the right direction. Thanks again for your persistance and discoveries.:clap


Peace,

Darrin

[BlueSnBikes]

All you need is the TC88A ignition module

Link to the module: http://www.daytona-twintec.com/TC88A.html
_______________________________

You will need 2 programs you can download to your computor from the 2 links below:

http://www.daytona-twintec.com/download/PC_Link_TC88/PC_Link_TC88.htm

http://www.daytona-twintec.com/download/TC88A_Log/TC88A_Log.htm
_________________________________

You will need a special cable that will connect between the motorcycle and your laptop so you can download the MAP program into your TC88A module.

If you can't borrow someone elses cable, you will need to purchase a TCFI-C PC Link Interface Cable for $80

Note: The TC88A ignition module can be purchased at discounted prices sometimes on Ebay. See this post: http://www.xlforum.net/vbportal/forums/showthread.php?t=17301

Thier Website (www.daytona-twintec.com) is down right now(Friday, Noon,eastern). I just got off the phone with them to let them know (they didn't). If you need to contact them da' number is (386) 304-0700. Just ordered my cable as long as I was on the phone with'em. Whoooohoooo.:clap :tour

Peace,

Darrin

[Turbota]

I'm going to dyno the bike in another couple of weeks.

Somebody had a problem with getting communications between there laptop and the TC88A when they were trying to install the new MAP program.

More than likely, they were having a problem with the white "jumper wire" that needs to be installed.

When I tried to install my jumper wire, I found that the male end of the jumper would push into the empty #1 terminal of the bikes diagnostic connector like the instructions said ... but, after looking at it, the pin did not extend into the connector far enough to make contact. It was no near far enough extended into the diagnostic connector as the other 3 wires that were installed from the factory ... I really needed to play around with this jumper wire to get it fully pushed in so it would work.

Another thing I had problems with was installing the female end of the jumper wire into the connector at the ignition module. The instructions just say to pull out the factory installed #2 wire from the connector and install the white jumper wire where the old wire was removed ... Easier said than done! ... Twin Tec tells you to refer to the Service manual for instructions on removing and replacing wires in this "Deutsch" connector, but the Service manual was confusing ... at least to me.

What you need to do is remove the orange plastic end piece from the connector with a screwdriver by prying on it. Once removed, you will see the little black plastic clips in there that secure the wire. Just get a small jewelers screwdriver or a pick and move this clip that is next to the #2 wire you are removing. Then just pull the wire out. Next, push in the new jumper wire (female end). It will lock in place once it's all the way in. Then push the orange plastic end part back in.

Done!

BTW, Here is a photo of a Deutsch connector that Bert posted awhile back. It shows what the connector looks like with the orange end part removed. The guy in the photo is pushing on one of those clips in order to pull out the wire.

http://linson.us/harleydavidson/sportsters/bertshowto/tachinstall/images/20030315-SPORTSTER-TACHINSTALL0040.jpg

[883 custom]

Ron thanks for all the work on these maps. Looks like I am going to have to get the cable after all. That damn connector looks to be painstaiking to install the white wire. I'll send you an email when I get the cable, I would really like that to have the custom map:clap

[Turbota]

Installing the white jumper wire is a piece of cake once you figure out how to do it. Unforfunatly, I didn't know how to do it ... But, now you do ... easy job! :)

[naru]

Thank you very much for the map for the 04 and up XL!
It is exacatly what I've been looking for.
I had to come all the way from Japan to find your thread, but thanks to the Internet, it only took a few seconds to get here!

By the way, you said that the VSS freq. needs to be even set at a lower value than stated in the instructions in your earlier thread.
What would be your recommended VSS freq. for a 2004 XL1200R?
How much lower than stated in the instructions?

[Turbota]

naru ....

The instructions say to set the VSS to 1386 for all 1200 models except Japan. If you have my MAP named "Modified MAP", the VSS is set to 1360. I have not verified this with a calibrated speedo yet, but I believe it's pretty accurate now.

If your 1200 is an export model sold by a Japanese dealership (not a US military AAFES bike), the instructions say to set it at 1526 VSS. Since mine is set 26 lower than what the instructions say, you may want to try yours set to 1500 (26 lower) if you have a Japanese model 1200.

Hey, if you find your speedo if off a little, you can always change the value on your MAP program and then reload it into the bike.

Ron,

[Lynk]

Just remember... a higher VSS makes your speedometer read slower. So, if your speedo reads too high, raise the VSS; if the speed is too low, lower the VSS. If you can hit a dyno, and count the number of pulses, I believe the value is supposed to be set to the pulse per second count at 100Km/h.

[Turbota]

Michael ... Thank's for straightening me out on this. I was going the wrong way. So, I need to set a higher VSS in order to lower my speedo reading.

Thank's :)


For anyone that got a copy of the latest MAF which was titled "Modified MAF", you may will need to change the VSS to 1386. That should do it if you have an 04-06 1200 manfactured for anywhere except Japan. Japanese version 1200s will need to be set at 1526.

I'm going to test the speedo again tomorrow and make sure it's correct.

[naru]

Michael,

Thanks for the tips!
This is a piece of advice that I can possibly never find in Japan.

Ron,

Thanks again!
So I'm going to start out with the VSS freq. 1526 and see what I can do.

[Turbota]

naru ... That's what the instructions say ... 1526 for the "Japan Only" model Sportster 1200.

[naru]

Ron,

For some reason, I can't see any of your valuable maps anymore.
What's going on here?

[Turbota]

I guess I got too many views of them. The company that is hosting my photos said I exceeded my alowable bandwidth. That has never happened before. Since it is a free photo hosting service I can't complain.

At the end of the month, the photos should be viewable again.

Were you able to view the Modified MAP I emailed to you after downloading the required software from the Twin Tec website?

Ron,

[naru]

Ron,

Thanks for the response.
Did you send me something?
I've got nothing from you so far...neither in my mailbox here nor at home.
Well, I'm going to bed now, Ron.
It's one in the morning in Tokyo.
Hope to catch up with you in several hours.

[Johnny G]

I guess I got too many views of them. The company that is hosting my photos said I exceeded my alowable bandwidth. That has never happened before. Since it is a free photo hosting service I can't complain.

At the end of the month, the photos should be viewable again.

Were you able to view the Modified MAP I emailed to you after downloading the required software from the Twin Tec website?

Ron,
Just use Photobucket .com you can save you pics as [IMG] and just copy and past them write into your thread. I have a ton of pics on there.

[Turbota]

I used Photobucket before, but I thought the pics were too small. I could not use 800x600.

naru .... give me your email address in a PM and I will send you the Modified MAP program you can download in to your TC88A. If you don't like it, you can remove it and use something else. I think you will be happy. All you need to do with this program is change the VSS (1526) for your bike

[leo]

Thanks for emailing me the modified map Ron... My cable should be in sometime this week... If anyone in my area needs to borrow the cable, let me know...

[Turbota]

Leo ... your very welcome!


Ok folks ... we did a lot of experimenting with the VSS on an 04 XL1200 and an 06 XL1200 .... There is a BIG difference in these bikes!

The instructions recommend that [all] the 1200s be set at 1386 Hz. (except for Japan Only models). Well, if you want an accurate speedo, set your 04 1200 at 1397. In fact, I believe this will also be want you need for your 05 1200.

Now for the 06 1200 ... It must be set at 1624 Hz in order to make your speedo accurate. I believe this is because of the different tranny in the 06s.

Setting the VSS on an 06 1200 to what is shown in the instructions will make the speedo read at least 10 mph too fast at 65 mph.

As far as the 883s .... I would use what the instructions say, and then adjust it from there. We have no info on the 883s.

Hope this helps somebody ... :)

[Johnny G]

1397, I will try it and see if it seems good on mine

[Turbota]

1397 is right on the money on my 04 1200. That's after a lot of screwing with this whole VSS deal. I am sure this will be within 1 mph of complete accuracy. I am convinced of this. :)

[naru]

Ron,

My Japanese 04 XL1200R still stays on 1526 as recommended, right?

BTW, did you see a picture of me riding a Honda Ruckus?

[Turbota]

BTW ... If anyone here has a MAP file from me that's not titled "Modified MAP" ... email me and I will replace it with the latest and greatest. Just tell me what year and model bike you have so I can include the correct VSS in the program.

This MAP table will render [both] your timing switches inoperable (but Twin Tec still recommends they both be set on #5) ... however, you will still need to set your rev limiter with your switches since NO rev limiter data is included in the new MAP download titled "Modified MAP"

Any old versions of the MAP tables you may have recieved from me should be shit-canned and reloaded with the new one titled "Modified MAP"

Also check the VSS and make sure it is set at what I talked about in the previous post. If it's not correct ... just use the numbers in the post above ... and reload it.

Ron,

[Turbota]

naru ... Yours stays at 1526 since you have a Japan Only 1200.

I would ride along the side of a car going at an exact speed ... and then check your speedo against the car. Make a change to the VSS if your speedo is not exactly correct.

Remember ... Increasing the VSS will slow your speedo ... and decreasing the VSS will increase the speedo reading .... Seems backwards, but that's the way it is.

[naru]

Ron,

All right!
Yeah. It does seem backwards like you say...

[883 custom]

Well I just ordered the cable from Twin Tec and Ron sent me the custom map he designed. I can't wait to try it. Cable wont be here till after Christmas so in the meantime I'll get the white wire installed. Thanks again Ron:D

[Turbota]

Make damned sure the pin on the end of the white jumper wire that goes into the 4 pin diagnostic connector on your bike is [all] the way in ... Looking at the connector after installing the jumper wire ... that new pin needs to be just as long as the other 3. If not, it needs to be pushed in further. We had to get a fine file and file down the sides of the pin a little so it would push in far enough and not hang-up in the connector before going all the way in.

If it's not in all the way, your laptop computer will not communicate with the TC88A when you try loading your MAP program.

[883 custom]

Make damned sure the pin on the end of the white jumper wire that goes into the 4 pin diagnostic connector on your bike is [all] the way in ... Looking at the connector after installing the jumper wire ... that new pin needs to be just as long as the other 3. If not, it needs to be pushed in further. We had to get a fine file and file down the sides of the pin a little so it would push in far enough and not hang-up in the connector before going all the way in.

If it's not in all the way, your laptop computer will not communicate with the TC88A when you try loading your MAP program.
Will do Ron, s^^t like that drives me crazy:censor

[RoadChick]

Ok.....I have decided that I am devoting my time on the forum
to threads like these from Turbota... It really bugs me to read
something and not understand it.... I guess it is time to start
learning about the tech stuff...

Maybe this will be a mistake as I will start spending money on the engine ect...

Oh well, it is fun and keeps me out of trouble. ;)

Thanks for this post, Turbota...:clap :clap :clap

[883 custom]

Don't do it Roadchick, your credit card will suffer:roflblack :roflblack :roflblack

[RoadChick]

Don't do it Roadchick, your credit card will suffer:roflblack :roflblack :roflblack

I think it is too late..:p

[Turbota]

I was thinking. The 883 has less compression than the 1200s ... So, I think the 883 could use a MAP that has 2 degrees more timing at Wide Open Throttle (WOT) than the 1200. So, I just wrote a new MAP program called "Modified MAP 883 Update". It is almost exactly the same as the 1200 MAP except for the extra 2 degrees of timing above 4,500 rpm. It will need premium gas. Also the coeect VSS freq. is set in the new MAP for just the 883.

I would think this new 883 specific MAP will give an extra 'edge' to the 883s. Hopefully it won't ping.

The below pic is the new 883 MAP. In comparison, the 1200 MAP titled "Modified MAP" is below it:


883 MAP
http://usera.imagecave.com/Turbota/ModifiedMAP883Update.jpg


1200 MAP
http://usera.imagecave.com/Turbota/ModifiedMAPFinal.jpg

[jimmyheadgear]

Ron

Which of your maps does your bike like the best, and have you dyno'ed the bike with the new map?

Pete

[Turbota]

Pete ...

Haven't dyno'd the bike yet, but it don't ping as far as I can hear, and it runs stronger than it ever has. I just wrote the 883 program, and have not run it on my bike ... I think it may have too much WOT timing for a 1200.

I won't be changing the program in my bike for a long time ... I just put your cable in the mail today. It's going USPS Express.

Ron,

[jimmyheadgear]

Ron

Thanks for all your work! :clap

[Johnny G]

Being it was 80 deg when I got home after work I downloaded the Modified map and set my rev limit at 6500 and off I went on a 35 mile ride , This map seems the best so far, it seems the speedo is real close to. I use to have my rev limit at 6300 but I alway hit it, now that I have it at 6500 I can hear the engine start to fall of at 6300 and I can shift without hitting the limit. I didn't hear any detonation at all on 91 oct. Great job Turbota

[Johnny G]

Hey Road Chick after spending all that mooola on mods you missed one of the best ones. You must get one of these Ignition modules for your scoot , believe me you wont be sorry.

[naru]

Ron,

I think I'm going to show the upper map to one of my Japanese folks in Tokyo.
He's got a 2004 XL883 w/ a recalibrated TC88A installed.
He's been playing around with the switches on the ignition module, but hasn't started messing around with a map yet.
I'm sure he'll be pleased with the differences!
Thanks again, Ron!

[82ndJumper]

This is the first time I read this Thread and all I got to say is, WTF are they talking about?

[Turbota]

naru ...

You have the 1200 MAP. I can email you that 883 MAP if you like. The only thing I can't guarantee is that the VSS for the speedo will be exactly correct for a Japan Only model 883 ... but will send it with what the Twin Tech instructions tell me the VSS is supposed to be for a Japan 883 (1635)

[naru]

Ron,

I'll let you know if he wants one from you...
Thanks!

[RoadChick]

Hey Road Chick after spending all that mooola on mods you missed one of the best ones. You must get one of these Ignition modules for your scoot , believe me you wont be sorry.


Hey Johnny G,

Good idea... I have been thinking about a Ignition Mod for a little while.
This is gonna be the next mod for my scoot.. :D

Rene

[BlueSnBikes]

Received the Map, Ron. Thanks.:clap
I'll let you know how things turn out.

Rene,

Really should check this iggie out, seems to breathe new life
into yer Sporty. A highly advisable upgrade.


Peace,

Darrin

[Turbota]

Darrin ... Okie Dokie!


Rene ...

The TC88A retails for above $250.

What Twin Tec does is sell units that have been returned to them with a problem and the sell them on Ebay after they have been fixed.

Here is a QUOTE from an Ebay posting:

"This is a factory refurbished unit that may have slight cosmetic blemishes and mounting marks. Comes with complete instructions and a full one year factory warranty. Free UPS Ground shipping within the USA".

These units are every bit as good a new one. And for $115, they are a steal! Here is a link to one being sold by the maufacturer:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Harley-Twin-Cam-Ignition-Twin-Tec-TC88A_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ10064QQitemZ45989 43302QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

You will also see that Eastern Performance is selling brand new units at less tha retail ($199.95 with free shipping)

Here is an Ebay link to them:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HARLEY-IGNITION-DAYTONA-TWIN-TEC-TC88-PLUG-IN-TC88A_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ35571QQitemZ45992 68758QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

Now, if someone would sell the programming cable for less than $80 ... that would be nice ... just haven't found that yet.

Ron,

[Lynk]

I've got a couple of custom cable makers in my area. I'll give them a call to see if they can provide termination to Deutsch connectors. If so, all I need is confirmation that the cables aren't loaded (specific resistance added to the wire), and a pin-out. If everything works out, I can setup a group buy.

[Turbota]

Lynk ... There is a very small circuit board attached to the wires that go into the standard computer "com port" connector on one end of the cable ... that's the problem.

The cable is nothing but 3 conductor (wire), shielded, 20 AWG (guage) "Multi-Conductor Communications and Control Cable" (AWM style 2093)

[RoadChick]

Ron,

Thanks! Will check them out later today...

RC

Now, if someone would sell the programming cable for less than $80 ... that would be nice ... just haven't found that yet.

Ron,[/QUOTE]

[Lynk]

What's on the PCB? If its just a couple of diodes and resistors, then we're set. Nonetheless, I couldn't see them putting much on there -- perhaps a timer or two. Can someone provide me with a good pic?

[Turbota]

Lynk ... There is what looks like a very small PROM type of chip on it and some other micro stuff ... I am not educated in this field, so I don't have a clue ... but it's more than just a resistor and a diode or two.

I mailed the cable back to the owner, so I can't get you a photo. It's going to have to be really a very high quality close-up ... to say the least. Maybe someone that has the cable and owns a very good digital camera can get you a photo.

But the cable only has 3 wires in it and is shielded around the inside of the cable's jacket. I think it's a foil type shield.

[Johnny G]

I can alway loan you my cable Road Chick Once its programed you really wont need it much , it cant cost but a buck or two to ship it back and forth.

[883 custom]

Well I got the white jumper wire installed this morning. The connector at the icm was a piece of cake but the dianostic connector was a pita, finnaly got it to "click" into the conn. Can't wait to try the map(s) Ron sent me. Sooo.... when I hook everything up to the bike is it pretty self explanatory as what to click on to download the map. Also you have to have both switches set to 5, is that correct.

[BlueSnBikes]

Well I got the white jumper wire installed this morning. The connector at the icm was a piece of cake but the dianostic connector was a pita, finnaly got it to "click" into the conn. Can't wait to try the map(s) Ron sent me. Sooo.... when I hook everything up to the bike is it pretty self explanatory as what to click on to download the map. Also you have to have both switches set to 5, is that correct.

Yeah, just the timing switches to five. Leave your limiter adjustable as is.
I received the same MAP from Ron, I hope to have time tomorrow to upload the program. Lemme know how it goes and how the bike responds. Good Luck!:tour

Peace,

Darrin

[883 custom]

Thanks Darrin, it will be a few days till I can load the map, just want to have everything ready when I can. I am sooo looking forward to trying those maps!

[Turbota]

Niether of your timing switches are going to work ... they are locked out ... but Twin Tech recommends you set them on 5 and 5 anyway. You still need to set your rev limiter to whatever you want with the switches.

BTW, the 883 program I wrote has a little more timing than the 1200 program (since the 883 has less compression). If your getting a slight pinging in your 883 with the "Modified MAP 883" program installed, send me an email and I will send you the 1200 program which will give you 2 degrees less timing.

These latest programs are titled "Modified MAP 883" and "Modified MAP 1200"

I also just wrote a program that has slightly less timing that the "Modified MAP 1200" program. It's called "Modified MAP 1200 Ver 2" .... if your 1200 slightly pings with the regular "Modified MAP 1200" program, you may want to try the "Modified MAP 1200 Ver 2"

Here is the max WOT timing above 4,500 revs for the various programs: There is also some slight differences at part throttle / high load operation.

Modified MAP 883 = 35 degrees max at WOT

Modified MAP 1200 = 33 degrees max at WOT

Modified MAP 1200 Ver 2 = 31.4 degrees max at WOT

[leo]

Hi, i have been trying to upload the map on the tc88a, but no luck.
says communications error:framing error
rs 232 time out - check cable & click abort
upload to eeprom: firmware id read failed cannot upload
part # on cable box is p/n 031008

thanks

[leo]

Hey Ron,
i have been trying to upload the map on the tc88a, but no luck.
says communications error:framing error
rs 232 time out - check cable & click abort
upload to eeprom: firmware id read failed cannot upload
part # on cable box is p/n 031008

is there something i am missing?

thanks

[BlueSnBikes]

Thanks again, Ron.

I'll probably get some free time tomorrow to upload.
I'll let y'all know how she goes.

Peace,

Darrin

[Turbota]

Look at the 4 pins in the diagnostic connector. Does the white jumper wire pin that goes into the #1 hole extend in the connector as far as the other 3?

[Turbota]

If all 4 of the pins extend into the diagnostic connector, then try reloading using this procedure:

As far loading a new MAP program into the TC88A, all you need to do is:

Open up the TC88 Data Logging program. You will need to download it first from here:

http://www.daytona-twintec.com/download/TC88A_Log/TC88A_Log.htm

Turn on the bikes ignition switch and run switch (but don't start the bike)

Click Communications

Click "Clear TC88 Data Buffer"

Click "Edit"

Click "Edit TC88 Parameters"

Set the "Logging Data Interval" to 0.10 sec and click "Upload"

Now, exit this program

Now open up the "PC Link TC88" program

Open up the new MAP program in your Twin Tec PC Link program. You will then see the MAP graph on your screen. Make sure your ignition switch and run switch are still on.

Click “Comunications”

Click 'Upload to EEPROM'. You should see a bar graph. When the graph line finishes going across the graph you will get a display that says it was loaded (or something to that effect).

.

[leo]

all the pins are all the way in. i will try to download the program again.

[bclerk]

My HP laptop assigned port COM 4 to the cable and the software was set to COM 1. Might be something to check on yours.

[bclerk]

I also just wrote a program that has slightly less timing that the "Modified MAP 1200" program. It's called "Modified MAP 1200 Ver 2" .... if your 1200 slightly pings with the regular "Modified MAP 1200" program, you may want to try the "Modified MAP 1200 Ver 2"

I've just finished uploading and test riding with Ron's Ver 2 uploaded and it is a perfect fit for my 06 XL 1200 C California bike.

Ron's the Man!

[leo]

i must be doing something wrong...
still says communications error:framing error
rs 232 time out - check cable & click abort
it doesn't seem to read the cable or somethin...

[BlueSnBikes]

I've just finished uploading and test riding with Ron's Ver 2 uploaded and it is a perfect fit for my 06 XL 1200 C California bike.

Ron's the Man!

Excellent news!!!

[leo]

how do i find out which port?

thanks

[883 custom]

Leo, look at the instructions for the usb interface. Look where it says COM PORT CONFIGURATION and go to #1. Go through the steps there and make sure the ports are set up properly. Hope this helps.

[leo]

mine is a regular com port, not usb... any suggestions?

[Johnny G]

I am running the ( Modified) program on a Cali 1200 C and it works great for me.

[leo]

still trying to upload the map, message keep saying check cable and power to module... any tips on how to troubleshoot this?

[leo]

i think i found the problem, the shop ordered the wrong cable for me... cable is labeled tc88c... instructions says look identical, but will not function... thanks for the help everybody...

[883 custom]

Glad you found the problem leo.

[leo]

thanks again for everybody that tried to help...

[883 custom]

Finally got to load on of the maps Ron sent me. The one I loaded has the correct vss for the 883 but has 33 degress at wot. Wanna see how this performs then I'll try the one with 35 degress at wot that way if it pings I am sure to hear it. Only trouble I had was when I first started the upload it kept saying check the connections or some shit. Found out the computer COM port was on 4 and the usb was on 1. So had to put them both on 2 b/c my computers #1 port was in use. Once I figured that out it was a breeze to upload. Gonna give it a test run tommorrow if the weather holds out.

[jimmyheadgear]

I loaded Ron's latest 1200 map today. My bike ran real good.

I hope I can get it to the dyno this weekend for some hard numbers.

Thanks for all your work Ron!

[883 custom]

Thanks for all your work Ron!
I'll second that!:)

[Turbota]

Thanks for the nice words ...

Pete ... I guess you got the 2 MAPs (Modified MAP 1200 & Modified MAP 1200 Ver 2) I sent you today. Since your bike was originally an 883, make sure you set the VSS to 1431 and then re-save the MAP program before you load it in the bike.

I have the VSS for a 1200 set in those MAPS.

883 custom ... The MAPs I sent you I believe have the VSS for an 883 already in them.

[883 custom]

883 custom ... The MAPs I sent you I believe have the VSS for an 883 already in them.
Yeah Ron they do, can't wait to try them out!

[flag888]

Just wanted to let everyone know that Ron's MAP's are awesome.
I have an '05 1200C, Stage 1, otherwise stock, and I've run two different MAP's that Ron sent me, and I never once got a ping or a knock and I hammered it pretty good at all different gear and RPM situations.
Right now I am running the Modified MAP written on 12/15/2005 and the bike runs like a dream.
Once again Ron, Thanks for the hard work and the education.

Hope its always CAVU for ya!!

Scott

[leo]

anyone have any setting recommendations for someone that doesn't have the cable yet? i have an 05 1200r that i set on 3-3, but my bike was idling very high... idles at 1400-1800 rpm... engine was shaking a lot more than usual too. just need to do this till i get the right cable... any help is appreciated...
thanks

[Turbota]

Leo ... 3 and 3 worked the best on my bike.

Just set your idle speed down to 1,000 ... Nothin to it.

Looking at the program, the 3-3 setting will give you idle timing of 22.7 degrees at 1,000 rpm. That's higher than in my programs (mine are at 20.0), but it should not increase idle that much. i wonder if you don't have a vacuum leak somewhere. That will increase the idle speed alot and possibly make it idle a little rough since a vacuum leak is considered "unmetered" air.

Buy a spray can of brake cleaner and spray the area around the intake manifold while it's idling. If it stumbles, you have a leak. Just don't let the fumes go down the air cleaner/carb, or you will get a false stumble since it's going right into the engine.

Ron,

[leo]

thanks Ron, i will try that. i did suspect an air leak, but it was not like that with the original module. my cable should be here in a day or two... thanks again...

[leo]

another question, where is the idle adjustment screw?
thanks

[jimmyheadgear]

...but my bike was idling very high... idles at 1400-1800 rpm... engine was shaking a lot more than usual too

leo

The idle on mine has moved around alot with all the programs.

Try and set the idle adjuster as low as possible with out the engine shaking. I found the best time to set mine was after it was good and warm.

[leo]

so idle changes with different programs and adjustments... thanks for the heads up Pete.

[Turbota]

The idle speed changes becouse the various ignition programs have different idle timing.

[leo]

i just thought it was weird because it was at 1300rpm, ride down the street it would be on 1600rpm, stop at another stop light 1500rpm and so on. is this normal if i didn't adjust the idle from stock ignition?

[Turbota]

There may be a problem with the throttle cable adjustment ... not idle timing. Something is keeping the throttle from contacting the idle stop when you close the throttle at stoplights, etc .... sometimes it's open just slightly and sometimes is fully closed againt the idle stop.

You do have the throttle friction wheel completely off?

Did you ever remove the carb? ... There is a small spring that goes in one of the cables that attaches to the carb throttle bracket. Whithout the small spring, you may have problems.

[leo]

never removed the carb, the star knob under the throttle cable housing is still there if that is what you are talking about.

[Turbota]

When I talked about the spring .. I'm talking about the where throttle cables attach to the carb ... In your case, you never had the carb removed, so don't worry about that.

But, when I said if you have the throttle friction off ... yes, I was talking about the 'star wheel' below the throttle grip ... I mean off as in no friction applied on the throttle.

[leo]

yes, the star friction wheel is off. throttle fully disengages. i hope i just need to adjust the idle screw. i will give you an update once it is sorted. i won't be able to play with the bike for a day or two.
thanks again.

[BlueSnBikes]

Loaded Ron's MAP today for the 883 and I have to say that this is the smoothest running and generally responsive setup I have had to date for my 883XL/C. Smooth start-up & acceleration through all the gears is responsive and gratifying, especially 3&4th gears, this is where Ron's Map really shines, set at 6500rpms on the limiter it's only natural that the bike pulls the hardest in it's "wheelhouse" so to speak. Hit 4th gear at 80mph and rode it to 102mph before a STOP sign got in my way. Idles nicely at 1000rpms and no knocks or pings to be heard. Thanks Ron, hope to be in touch and possibly tweak this MAP if necessary or at least pick yer brain. Thanks, bro.


Peace,

Darrin

[883 custom]

Darrin, good to hear the map worked well for you. I have not got to test mine due to pouring down rain yesterday:( I'm assuming you loaded the one with 35 degress total timing?

[Turbota]

That 883 MAP has quite a bit of timing. I hope someone that has an 883 that running the "Modified MAP 883" program would load the "Modified MAP 1200" program just to let me know which one works better in the 883.

The 1200 program has 33 degrees of WOT timing above 4,500 revs vs 35 for the 883 program.

Also, the 1200 program has slightly less timing at part throttle acceleration. Idle timing is the same as well as cruise.

[883 custom]

Ron the one I loaded is the "modified map 1200". Gonna see how it runs then load the "modified map 883". Wanted to try it this way incase I got any pinging with the 883 map I should be able to hear it.

[Turbota]

Great ... If the 1200 program runs a little better, I won't even send the 883 program to anyone.

I did find out that the "Modified MAP 1200 Ver 2" program runs better in an 06 California model 1200 ... but that's just too little timing for an 883.

[leo]

finally got the right cable. hoping to be a able to load the map with no problems in a day or two...

[leo]

finally able to load map... will try to ride the bike to work and give update... thanks Ron...

[radar]

I just installed the TC88A this afternoon, no problems at all with the jumper or otherwise. I set the switches to 1&4, limiter to 6200 and cranked her up.
Fired right up. After a little warmup the idle was a little high and I adjusted. Significantly less engine shake, very smooth. No carb farts with throttle blips, and instant response. Can't ride today, raining and lots of salt on the roads.
I won't be able to load any of Ron's maps until March when I bring my laptop back from Alaska, but by then I'm sure he'll have new ones, and I'll have those too:tour
For now, I do see a marked improvement over the stock ignition in the garage.
If I'm lucky, I'll get it on the road before 3 Jan when I go back to the Island and see what it does:banana

[Turbota]

I won't be able to load any of Ron's maps until March when I bring my laptop back from Alaska ...

Just take your desktop computer out in the garage and load that MAP program in. It won't take you more that 30 minutes to haul all that stuff out to the garage, and another 5 minutes to finish everything up.

The TC88A don't know the difference between a laptop and a full size desktop computer! :)

[radar]

Funny bit here,
Just got off the phone with my buddy who rides a '70 FLH, he'll be over Saturday with his laptop. We'll load all the software and go to town!
He's as excited about the project as I am.
It's neat that a hardcore old BT guy is into this. He loves my Sporty, and braggs it up every chance he gets.
It just doesn't get any better than this.

[leo]

Hey RON, GREAT JOB with the custom map... the bike runs great, no carb farts... keep up the great work...

[883 custom]

I haven't had a chance to ride, backyard is like a swamp after all the rain so I'll have to wait a bit to get the bike out:frownone

[leo]

I was lucky, today is one of the only days that it wasn't gonna rain... bike felt smooth.

[Spor-T-1]

OK guys Pardon my ignorance on this subject. Now I just ordered the great deal over at Datona and it comes with TC88A ignition, Twin Cam coil, Spiral plug wires, and PC link cable for about $395.00 (I know more money than brains, like I haven't heard that before). So with that Cant I just replace the coil plug wires and Ignition and ride? whats with all this mapping and stuff. If I dont have a laptop can I still link or is it just about being able to connect to the comp? so question Do I have to map it for it to work? what will happen if I dont map it? A beginners tutorial would help.( I know this isn't beginners $hit here but I would just like to know the best way to make My money work for my bike.

[Lynk]

Good deal, Spor! You've got the first step in your ICM replacement done. ;)

Alright, you're going to need some way of connecting a computer to your bike. If you can't connect your desktop to the bike, then you'll need to borrow the aide of a friend with a laptop. The TC88A was designed for the 88ci twins, specifically, the Softail. With the 2006 Custom, you'll need to change the VSS value, of your speedometer will report *wayyy* off, like I mentioned in the other thread. Besides a bother, this will cause your odometer to reflect of bunch of extra miles. I don't plan on selling my bike, but I'd still like an accurate tally! :D

So, Ron and the guys have come up with a rough estimate of the VSS value for the 2006 bikes. Harley changed the transmission, so the Vehicle Speed Sensor reads fast (it senses the teeth in the final drive gear, which has more teeth in '06). I believe Ron mentioned 1624, earlier in this thread. My module should show up tomorrow, and the cable next week. So, sometime in the next week, I'll perform a roll-out on my bike, and give you an exact figure. If you can program before then, use that estimate. It'll be close, maybe a little bit on the low side.

As always... have fun, and keep the rubber-side down. :tour

[radar]

Well Ron, you motivated me.
I couldn't really drag the house computer out to the garage, my wife keeps a lot of her business records on it. If I hosed it up I'd be dead. So...
I went to the basement and dragged up the P2-350 I built years ago, went to Wallyworld and picked up a little flat screen,rounded up the necessary cables and stuff and went to town.
The old brute fired right up. I spent most of the day removing junk and doing a full software cleaning.
Loaded up the TC88 drivers and software, and the maps I have, all went without a hitch.
I will put a shelf in the garage in the morning and set it all up.
Then the fun begins!

[Lynk]

Right on, Walt!

[Lynk]

Have any of you guys been receiving DTC U1016 (communication loss), or is it just some funkiness with my refurb?

[leo]

only problem i had was wrong cable...

[BlueSnBikes]

Hey All,

Been riding the past coupla' weeks with Ron's 883 MAP. I really like it, getting really good pull thru the whole power band. The 3rd, 4th and 5th gears seemed to have benefitted the most at high R's from this MAP over the intitial 3/5 settings I had before I bought the cable. I do think I had a spot more low end torque with the 3/5, 1st thru 3rd. I had an very occasional carb fart, nothing serious, but I did notice (I don't know what you'd call it) a real deep breathy kinda cough when downshifting from 4th to 3rd at higher speed rates. No backfiring or anything, just throaty. Ron, whattya thing, maybe a touch to much timing. Perhaps yer 1200 Map with less timing would do the trick. I'm gonna throw the 1200 map in this weekend & give 'er a shot. We'll see. Might just need to start with a 3/5 setting and build a custom map from there? I dunno? BTW, '04 883XL/C taxes paid is the scoot.


Peace,

Darrin

[Lynk]

Have any of you guys been receiving DTC U1016 (communication loss), or is it just some funkiness with my refurb?

I'm still wondering, has anyone else received this DTC? (U1016) I have a TSSM, so I suppose it could have to do with password learning, or lack thereof, in conjunction to the alarm system.

Oh, and Ron, you're absolutely right about the far too rapid advance of timing at 16" MAP. I feel like I'm going to get bucked when I try to roll on the throttle (a few really hard misses). Even "0-0" appears to have too much advance at 1500RPM low-pressure! I sure hope my cable arrives today!!! :p

[BlueSnBikes]

I'm still wondering, has anyone else received this DTC? (U1016)

Never got this msg, Mike? Hope you get it cleared up when yer cable arrives.
Good luck!!:tour

Peace,

Darrin

[883 custom]

I haven't had a chance to try any of the maps. Loaded the 1200 map but have had bad weather, when the weather is good I was keeping my 8 yr old son. Can't wait to try it:banana Darrin did you hear any pinging with the 883 map?

[BlueSnBikes]

I haven't had a chance to try any of the maps. Loaded the 1200 map but have had bad weather, when the weather is good I was keeping my 8 yr old son. Can't wait to try it:banana Darrin did you hear any pinging with the 883 map?

Nope, no pinging, just that throaty phlegm cough (whattya guys call it? :doh I know y'all mentioned it before, just can't remember the name) a little from 4th to 3rd at high R's & it really only happened a couple of times. Looking forward to more testing near the end of the week.


Peace,

Darrin

[Turbota]

That 883 MAP may very well have just a little too much timing. Email me at turbota@cox.net and I will send you the 1200 MAP (I may just shit can the 883 program after all). I [know] the 1200 program works great.

And a reminder, if you have an XL1200 or a high compression 883 conversion, and still get some pinging with the 1200 program, I can email you the 1200 Rev 2 program with even slightly less timing (I still believe the 1200Rev 2 is just too little timing for anyone with a low compression 883cc motor).

Tell me what year and model you have so I can include the correct speedo VSS in your program.

Again ... maybe this 883 program is just too aggressive in the timing.

[Lynk]

Have any of you guys been receiving DTC U1016 (communication loss), or is it just some funkiness with my refurb?

Hmmm, it'd be nice this wasn't the case... but I'm sure that the programmability of the ICM will more than make up for this annoyance.

Here's Chris Schroeder's response: "The loss of data code is normal, but everything should work fine."

BTW, I was noticing it by the "check engine" light. If you have a DTC, two things will happen when the motorcycle is "ready to start" (key is set to ignition and the engine stop switch is set to "RUN"): the "check engine" light will remain on continuously, and the security lamp will re-illuminate four seconds after its initial four-second test cycle.

[Turbota]

What Lynk said ...

Unlike the stock ignition module, the 'check engine' light will [never] go out until the engine is actually started.

On my bike, that 'security' light goes on for about 2 seconds when the key is first turned on, then goes off ... then goes on again for about at least 10 seconds before completely staying off.

Just the way it is ...

[Lynk]

THANK YOU!!! I'm not insane... :D

[jimmyheadgear]

THANK YOU!!! I'm not insane... :D

The TC88 sets off a trouble code in the Turn Signal Security Module. It will also make the "check engine" light stay on until the bike is started.
Both the turn sigals and security system will function normally though.

[bshadbolt]

I lose my tacho and speedo output at random intervals - e.g. on the way to work this morning I'm riding along ok and then suddenly, no tacho and no speedo. I have to switch off the engine and restart to get them back again.

Sometimes this happens when I start up as well. It is easier to restart then but when crusing along on the expressway I'm not too happy having to shutdown and restart. Anyone else excperience this?

Apart from that, I love the TC88A. I've just loaded Ron's modified map and it works great so far.

Cheers,

Brett

[jimmyheadgear]

I lose my tacho and speedo output at random intervals - e.g. on the way to work this morning I'm riding along ok and then suddenly, no tacho and no speedo. I have to switch off the engine and restart to get them back again.

Sometimes this happens when I start up as well. It is easier to restart then but when crusing along on the expressway I'm not too happy having to shutdown and restart. Anyone else excperience this?

Apart from that, I love the TC88A. I've just loaded Ron's modified map and it works great so far.

Cheers,

Brett

I think there is an option to enable the tach in the map.

Try enabling that option and see if your problem goes away.

[BlueSnBikes]

Just loaded your 1200 modified MAP tonight, Ron. Didn't have a chance to get out and test it against the 883 I tried earlier due to darkness and the consumption of a high quality home-made beer thanks to my assisant. I WILL be out tomorrow and give a comparison, to the best of my knowledge, which worked best for me. Thank for the MAPs, bro.:tour I'll be in touch tomorrow.

Peace,

Darrin

[Lynk]

Hey Ron, your advance table doesn't work with a defective ICM!

http://www.lynk.us/images/TC88A_short.JPG

[Turbota]

You have a problem. Here is my graph when idling. The graph parameters are set on the exact same thing yours is set to:

Trace 1: RPM
Trace 2: Spark Adv
Time Scale: 15 sec
Log Interval: 0.10 sec

What I have is exacty what is in the MAP program when idling at 1,000 rpm = 20 degrees timing


http://usera.imagecave.com/Turbota/IdleRPMTiming.jpg

[Lynk]

Yup. I sent a message to Chris, last night, and he's going to send me a new one today! So, I'm extremely pleased in Daytona's customer support on this one. :D

[Turbota]

Lynk ...

I wonder if Chris knows about this long thread? Since it completely deals with his product, I would think he may have some interest in it.

[Lynk]

Shhh, I told him about the thread, too! :shhhh

[BlueSnBikes]

Lynk ...

I wonder if Chris knows about this long thread? Since it completely deals with his product, I would think he may have some interest in it.

I thought about the same thing last week, Ron.
I called them last week to ask a technical question and the woman who answered the phone said thier "tech" was out of the office, I told her I would call back but she insisted on giving me his cell #, saying that's what they're there for. So I called and it was Chris himself, we chatted for about 5 minutes, he answered my Q's and was the nicest person you'd ever want to talk with. Great guy, great product. I think he'd enjoy the thread you got going here, Ron. Good Idea'r.


Peace,

Darrin

[BlueSnBikes]

Shhh, I told him about the thread, too! :shhhh


Excellent!!!!

Damn I type too slow.:smoke

[Lynk]

Alright, I didn't just tell him about it... I gave him a link, in an email message.

Edit: Now, who's typing too slowly, Darrin?

[883 custom]

Got to go for a ride today:clap First time I got to try the map, its the 1200 map BTW. Bike started right up as it usually does, let it warm up for a minute and took off. Ran a few miles to let her warm up a bit. Stopped, now its warmed up and first thing I notice is it's idling smooth as silk. Before with the 5-5 setting it was a bit choppy, almost like a miss here and there. It idled great and a quick blip of the throttle and whooompa the revs were there, no hesistation,no farts,no coughs. So I ran it up through the gears and I can honestly say the bike has never ran better. It pulled great throuhout the RPM range. Cruising along at 50 or so and open the throttle was instant take-off, no hesitating what so ever. Every blip of the throttle was crisp. Before I ran her on 5-7,5-5,4-6, and never could get it dialed in enough to be satisfied. Thanks to Ron I feel the bike runs great has more power than it has had. No pinging at all. I may try the 883 map but I honestly don't see it getting any better, I'm very impressed.:) :D

[BlueSnBikes]

That 883 MAP has quite a bit of timing. I hope someone that has an 883 that running the "Modified MAP 883" program would load the "Modified MAP 1200" program just to let me know which one works better in the 883.

The 1200 program has 33 degrees of WOT timing above 4,500 revs vs 35 for the 883 program.

Also, the 1200 program has slightly less timing at part throttle acceleration. Idle timing is the same as well as cruise.


As I mentioned in my post last night, I loaded Ron's "Modified MAP 1200". Didn't get a chance to ride last night but I took her out for a little 50 mile cruise thru the backroad twisties (lotsa up&down shifting, accelerating & de) and also a little highway driving (cranked her over 100mph). I just didn't get the same feeling of smoothness or pull from the 1200 MAP as I recalled getting with the 883, so when I returned from my ride I immediatly cleared the 1200 map, re-upped the 883 and headed back out. Yes, the 883 MAP is significantly better for my bike ('04 883XL, taxes paid). The bike ran considerably smoother in all ranges of the powerband and had more pull as well. Roll-ons in both 4th and 5th, as well as 1st thru 3rd acceleration mayhem, performed equally better.
I really like the 883 MAP alot and it's the best my bike has performed. That said, being a man, it's not our nature to leave things alone, :rolleyes: so I may do a little tweaking here & there once a get a better understanding of how this program works. Rest assured though, that a copy of "Modifed Map 883" that Ron created, will remain untouched.:smoke Thanks again Ron, you da MAN.:clap


Peace,

Darrin

[883 custom]

Darrin, after hearing you like the 883 map better you really have me itching to try it. My bike performed better than it ever has with the 1200 map so if the 883 map works better I'll be very happy. That 2 degress extra should make it pull a little harder.

[BlueSnBikes]

Got to go for a ride today:clap First time I got to try the map, its the 1200 map BTW. Bike started right up as it usually does, let it warm up for a minute and took off. Ran a few miles to let her warm up a bit. Stopped, now its warmed up and first thing I notice is it's idling smooth as silk. Before with the 5-5 setting it was a bit choppy, almost like a miss here and there. It idled great and a quick blip of the throttle and whooompa the revs were there, no hesistation,no farts,no coughs. So I ran it up through the gears and I can honestly say the bike has never ran better. It pulled great throuhout the RPM range. Cruising along at 50 or so and open the throttle was instant take-off, no hesitating what so ever. Every blip of the throttle was crisp. Before I ran her on 5-7,5-5,4-6, and never could get it dialed in enough to be satisfied. Thanks to Ron I feel the bike runs great has more power than it has had. No pinging at all. I may try the 883 map but I honestly don't see it getting any better, I'm very impressed.:) :D


Excellent !!! It's quite funny though, I hadn't seen your post before I posted mine. I guess you gotta try the 883 MAP now.:p The 1200 MAP may run better for your bike, who knows. I will say that before installing the 883 MAP I was running on 3-5 & it did run better than the 3 settings you had mentioned, I tried 'em. Well, give the 883 a go & let us know what you think.:tour


Peace,

Darrin

[BlueSnBikes]

Darrin, after hearing you like the 883 map better you really have me itching to try it. My bike performed better than it ever has with the 1200 map so if the 883 map works better I'll be very happy. That 2 degress extra should make it pull a little harder.

There you go, typing while I'm typing, and obviously faster:laugh. Yeah, definitely give'er a try. The pull was noticeable to me.

Peace,

Darrin

[883 custom]

Well, give the 883 a go & let us know what you think.:tour


Peace,

Darrin
Glad that map works good for you. I'll try the map and let ya know. Are you running 93 octane? That's what I run so hopefully no pinging. Hoping to try it this weekend.:tour

[BlueSnBikes]

Glad that map works good for you. I'll try the map and let ya know. Are you running 93 octane? That's what I run so hopefully no pinging. Hoping to try it this weekend.:tour

Yep, 93 octane. No ping.:banawala
Good luck, looking forward to your results.

Peace,

Darrin

[bshadbolt]

I think there is an option to enable the tach in the map.

Try enabling that option and see if your problem goes away.
Nope, unfortunately that setting is only for the use of aftermarket tachos, not for the standard one.

To explain further, usually all is well and the tacho and speedo both work. But.....sometimes, and for no explainable reason that I can find, they just stop working. One minute I'm riding along and both speedo and tacho are ok and the nextey both drop to zero and stay there. The only thing to do is switch off the bike and restart - then they come back again.

I think I'll write to Chris at DTT again and see what he says.

Cheers,

Brett

[883 custom]

Went for ride today to test the 883 modified map. My bike seems to like the 1200 map better. Going through the gears it seemed to pull about the same, but while cruising along and snap the throttle it just didn't have the same get up and go with the 883 map. Had one carb fart vurses none with the 1200 map. Also engine when under a load seemed to have a lot more "shake" to it, almost like you were lugging but I wasn't. The stock ignition would shake like this as well. Upon deceleration a couple times I noticed a strange bellow from the pipes. The 883 map did work better than with just the switches but not as good as the 1200 map. I'm going to go back and install the 1200 map. The bike has not ever ran as good as it did with that map. I dunno, maybe it thinks it's a 1200, or maybe it heard me talking about the 1212 kit.

[Johnny G]

Over 800 miles on the Modified 1200 map and I don't think the bike could run any better. 91 octane and no pinging ever.

[Turbota]

Johnny G ...

Great to hear! ... And I bet you don't have a carb fart one!

[883 custom]

Ron thanks again for all your work on these map, you did a great job. I had no carb farts at all with the 1200 map and the bike runs great. I guess the 35 degress timing was just a bit much for my bike.

[Turbota]

Just in case any of you would like to compare the 3 MAPs that are available, here are all 3 of them together:


Modified MAP 883 (highest WOT timing of 35 degrees)
http://images.picpile.com/uploads/807207572.jpg

__________________________________________________

Modified MAP 1200 (medium WOT timing of 33 degrees)
http://images.picpile.com/uploads/859642046.jpg

__________________________________________________

Modified MAP 1200 Ver 2 (lowest WOT timing of 31.4 degrees)
http://images.picpile.com/uploads/744854022.jpg

[Lynk]

WHOMP! *sh!t eat'n grin*

[flag888]

I know I've posted on this thread something to this effect before, but today I got to put about 70 miles on the bike. First decent amount of miles since downloading Rons 1200 MAP.
Two things:

1. RON YOU ROCK!!!
2. FLAWLESS.


Thanks again for all your help Ron, besides the MAPs, you really went above and beyond on a lot of different levels.

Hope it's CAVU for ya!

[Lynk]

Ron, how loud was the detonation that you experienced with your trials? I think that I may have a little bit too much advance around 2,000 - 3,000 RPM, 16" - 18" Hg. I was using your original 1200 table yesterday, then V2 today. All in all, I've put about 300 miles on to them, and I have to say that they perform quite well!

BTW, I'm about 250lbs, while wearing my riding gear. So, that may be why I'm the only one who has noticed this little bit of detonation.

[Turbota]

Lynk ....

I didn't hear any detonation using the 1200 MAP. In fact, that's what I'm using now. I didn't even try the 883 MAP because I felt it would have just too much timing for my bike since I have 10.5 to 1 CR.

I really would like to try the lower timing of the 1200 Ver 2 MAP, but I had not written it when I was testing on my bike.

Remember, I don't have my own cable (I was using a borrowed cable that "Jimmyheadgear" was nice enought to let me use)

I really would like to know if there is much of a performance difference between the 1200 and the 1200 Ver 2 MAPs though. I would really like to try that 1200 Ver 2 on my bike some day .... Lynk .... Did you feel any loss of WOT power with the Ver 2? How about just normal driving?

Ron,

[Turbota]

Well, I was able to get some data from a Service bulletin I found on the internet. It's the MAP data for an 883.

Here it is: http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/hddiagrams/TT_December_06_2004___XL883_Ignition_module_calibr ation_changes.pdf

I took the raw data and came up with a graph that looks like this:

http://images.picpile.com/uploads/484705526.jpg

I added the 4 degrees of times in that yellow area that is shown in the Service bulletin.

Anyway, I modified the 1200 MAP again from some of the info I got from this Service bulletin and came up with this:

http://images.picpile.com/uploads/749151928.jpg

Also I see the factory adds a little timing on the rear cylinder.

[flag888]

So, Ron, how's it going?
If I remember correctly, the 1200 MAP has 35 degrees up top, doesn't it?
How much do you think this new MAP will change the performance?
I remember you trying to figure out how to adjust the rear cylinder, I asked a few of the guys I know who are pretty serious motorheads, and they all said that they hadn't the foggiest on where to start, as far as how to offset the rear.

[Johnny G]

Interesting I would have thought to run less timing in back because the rear runs hotter, Oh well learn something new everyday. good info, wish we had a 1200 map like that

[Turbota]

flag ...

I think the 35 degrees might be too agressive, so this last MAP has it at 31. Also, the last MAP had 20 degrees of idle timing. Again, too much. In fact, if you look at that stock 883 MAP, it only uses 10 degrees. My new MAP has 15.

Also, I noticed on my bike, that if I let the clutch out too fast while it was idling, it would ping real loud, so thats why the timing is low now at very low revs. That should fix that.

The new MAP also now uses 1 degree more timing on the rear cylinder vs the front.

I don't think this new MAP will give up any performance, but should give the bike better manners.

I'm not trying to make the MAP like the stock MAP. but I don't want it just a cleaned-up version on the TC88A switch postion MAP either ... just trying to get the best of both worlds.

I really need to borrow a cable again! :)

[Turbota]

Johnny G .... I think you will find that the rear actually runs cooler than the front. I believe that's why the factory also runs more timing on the rear cylinder too.

It runs much richer and cooler even though it don't get as much airflow as the front. Has to do with the fuel distribution.

In fact, I believe Stevo will back me up on that.

[flag888]

Ron,
PM me your info, I will send it tomorrow, or Saturday, its the least I can do, I can finally help you out!!

[Turbota]

PM on the way ....

Thanks so much ... I will reimberse you for the shipping! :)

[flag888]

Don't be silly, won't hear of it.

[Lynk]

Hey, Ron... I think you'll find this interesting. I just used some percentages and smoothing on your V2 table, before noticing your most recently posted image. Notice the similarities (particularly in the 2500-3000RPM / 16" Hg range) in this one with the one that you just modified by service bulletin:

<image removed>

I'm about to slap it on my bike, and take a little cruise. If it works, I'll post a link to it so that others have an intermediate fix, until you can give us the bomb! :D

Edit: Screw it, I've noticed some pinging below 2000 as well, and it looks like your last table will take care of that. So, I'm going to run with it for now.

[Lynk]

I just went for a little 10-minute ride, using the last table shown in post #158. Carb pops are back, and detonation is spotty. The plateaus are alright, but really need some smoothing. I'll have to play around with the Log this weekend, to figure out just where to make some spot changes.

Idle is much smoother, however. So, we do need to keep the 1000 - 1500 RPM timing down in that range. We just need to find a happy median in 1500 - 2500 and 3500 - 4500. I didn't notice any problems in the high-RPM plateau.

[Turbota]

Lynk ...

Sounds good. I am supprised you got carb farts with that program. I think we need a good combo of the one on post 158 and that last one I sent you. Was that the Modified MAP 1200 or the Modified MAP 1200 Ver 2?

[Turbota]

Lynk ...

Since you have stock compression, I bet you could increase that whole high rpm / WOT area that has 31 degrees on up to 33 degrees.

I have 10.5 -1 CR, so I don't think I will be able to run much more that 31 degrees WOT .... need to get that cable to find out.

[Lynk]

I really don't mind if my timing is a little bit low... especially while futzing around with the mid-range RPMs. Besides, I've got some octane boost in this tank that I want to burn off before I really try to tune those numbers.

I think I was actually getting a couple of back-fires, not carb farts. The bike was still a tad bit cold, when it popped. So, I'm going back to the trimmed down version of your 1200V2 table. Shown here:

http://www.lynk.us/images/AdvTable1.jpg

[Lynk]

I've been thinking a bit about service bulletin that Turbota linked, in post #158. I haven't seen anyone define, or even claim to know, what the MoCo is using for a MAP scale. The values in the low pressure areas of the table appear awefully high. Well, I may have figured it out... and this is totally stupid...

Do you think that the MoCo may have use centi-bar (cbar) for their MAP scale?! If that's the case, then you could program your spark advance for a complete vacumm! That's right... 0 cbar = 0 bar = 0" Hg = vacuum = OUTER SPACE.

Here's the scale, used in the SE software, treated as cbar, then converted to inches of Mercury:
cbar / in-Hg

00 = 0.0
38 = 11.23
42 = 12.41
46 = 13.59
52 = 15.36
56 = 16.54
60 = 17.72
80 = 23.63
94 = 27.77
103 = 30.43

Note that the upper values are very close to some of the TC88A's MAP scale, if treated as cbar... so, here's what I came up with:

http://www.lynk.us/images/cbar.jpg


A little bit of creative fill, and interpolation of points renders the following:

http://www.lynk.us/images/cbar-fill.jpg


We may have something to work with here! I haven't tried it on the bike, yet... since this one was for an 883, and I just got done with these.

Whatcha think?

[flag888]

That's some great interpolatin'.

[Turbota]

I am now done with these MAPs. I spent the good part of today testing these on my bike with a borrowed cable.

The below MAPs are almost identical except the "MAP Modified 33" has 33 degrees timing at WOT above 4,500 revs.

The "MAP Modified 35" has 35 degrees at WOT above 4,500 revs.

Both MAPs have 15 degrees idle timing.

None have the rear cylinder offset timing (I tried it and didn't like the results).

Both are set to fire the plugs after 1 revolution.

Both have very very nice low speed/idle manners.

Both will give great mid-range throttle response and smooth cruise speed manners.

Neither should give pinging / detonation on your bike, but will require premium gas.

Neither of these MAPs will induce pinging if the clutch is let out too fast at a very low RPM.

I had a problem before with some popping in the pipes when the bike was downshifted. This problem has been pretty much elliminated by making changes to the low - mid rpm / low manifold pressure timing.

The VSS (speedo correction) will need to be set for your particular bike. Consult the Twin Tech instructions for the VSS.

The 06 bikes are not addressed in the instructions. We found that a VSS of 1624 is very very close for the 06 1200. For the 06 883 ... I just don't know.

I believe you will be very happy with one of these two programs. The 33 works best on my bike, but I have 10.5 to 1 CR. For a stock 9.7 or a 10.0 to 1 CR bike, I would recommend either the 33 or the 35 program. An 883 would more than likely do best with the 35 program .... Bottom line .... Try both and see which one works best. (I finally dumped the idea of 31 degrees at WOT because it just limited WOT performance too much)

[Remember ... set the VSS for your bike per the instructions].

You will still be able to set your own rev limiter with the switches on your TC88A. The 2 timing switches will be completely inoperative, but Twin Tech recommends they both be set on 5 and 5 anyway.

Send me an email turbota@cox.net and I will send you both the 33 and the 35.

Here is what they look like:

___________________________________________

MAP Modified 33

http://images.picpile.com/uploads/859614375.jpg

___________________________________________


MAP Modified 35

http://images.picpile.com/uploads/243700602.jpg

BTW .... I went back and tried using some various TC88A switch positions as a comparison ... Not even close! Again, the switch position MAPs give too much timing at low rpm, but not enough at high rpm ... Basically, it's just backwards as far as the XL bikes are concerned ... Maybe very good for the Twin Cams though ???

[Turbota]

And again, the reason you see the same timing (ie: 33 degrees) in the 30, 28 and 26" Manifold Air Pressure (MAP) area in my MAP programs I wrote is that when your accelerating above 4,500 rpm and up, these engines will not maintain 30" MAP while at WOT above 4,500 revs. What the engine does is go from 30, down to 28 and then to 26" MAP as rpm increases above 4,500 rpm while at WOT.

See the chart below: (the green line is the Manifold Air Pressure (MAP)

http://images.picpile.com/uploads/946034139.jpg

If the timing was not kept the same (ie: 33 degrees) for 30, 28 and 26" Manifold Pressure (MAP) when operating at WOT 4,500 WOT, the timing would change. In fact it would increase ... which is not what you want to happen after you reach your max programmed WOT timing.

Anyway, that's why there is a block of the same max timing at WOT in the programs I wrote. You can also see the same thing in the stock MAP programs that H-D wrote for the bike ... but, using the various switch positions in the TC88A, you don't see this rational applied.

Check the timing table using lets say a 4 and 4 switch position and see what I mean. The WOT timing is completely different in the high rpm range when your at 30, 28 or 25" MAP. It's just not constant.

In fact, here is a copy of the 4-4 switch postion chart. Take a look at the timing in the lower right section. Again, this is the area that [should remian constant] ... but it's not

Oh ya ... look at the near 24 degrees of idle timing at 1,000 rpm .... way too much!

http://images.picpile.com/uploads/733732222.jpg

Now, look at this circled area in my 2 MAPs above ...

[naru]

Ron,

Thanks for sending me the latest maps all the way across the Pacific Ocean!:banana
My Sporty is still at the H-D® dealership in Tokyo though.:frownthre

I'm having the front forks painted and coated, and modified with different oil and springs...
Additionally, I'm replacing my Ohlins rear shocks with those of Caddies by Race Tech.:tour

The problem is that Race Tech wouldn't sell their products to any individuals living outside the U.S. or Canada, and neither would Custom Chrome...
I finally managed to find a shop where I got to place an order on the website.:clap

By the way, the SE .551 cams turned out to be "somewhat tolerable" to my ears after all.
They don't sound as loud as my students at school if you know what I mean.:D

[Turbota]

Ron,

By the way, the SE .551 cams turned out to be "somewhat tolerable" to my ears after all.
They don't sound as loud as my students at school if you know what I mean.:D

Well, thank God for that ... Those children can get very noisy!

I am suprised you are getting rid of the Ohlins on the back of your bike. Those are the rear shocks I would really like to have. I now have the 1200-S Sportster "Sport" shocks on mine ... Still, would rather have a set of Ohlins.

naru ... I hope you like one of the two new MAPs I sent you. I believe you will. They will have better slow speed manners than the previous MAP ... with no loss of performance.

You will need to change the VSS to 1635 for your Japan model 883.


BTW .... too bad you don't know of any American military stationed at Yokota. They can get many parts sent through the APO (military postal service). It would save you [lots] of money and headaches / problems with parts!

[Lynk]

Turbota, what did you say that your bike shows on the compression gauge? I haven't had time to work on the tables, over the last few days (Seattle is one heck of a rainy and drab place during the Winter). Sorry about that, guys. I'll check out your new data on my bike, this weekend, and report the results.

Boy, I hope I haven't been too much of a pain in the arse! ;)

[Lynk]

Oh... as for the '06 bikes, assuming a VSS of 1624 for the 1200, the VSS for an 883 would be 1682.

(The only difference between the two, in terms of driveline, is one tooth on the transmission output pulley; 883 has 28 teeth; 1200 has 29 teeth)

[Scout99]

Ron - Thanks for all your hard work developing these maps. Uploaded your 35 deg. map today and took it for a spin before the sun set and the dramatic temperature drop. Have to say that this newest map performs much better then your previous version (1200 Stock CR). Your old map gave me "rattle can" at lower RPMs/idle but great high RPM performance. This newest map solved that problem with the elimination of "rattle can" at all RPMs. Can't wait for warmer weather so I can get some HOT weather feedback.

[Turbota]

Scout .... Glad it worked out for you! :)

Lynk .... My bike has 180 psi while cranking (both plugs out, warm engine, throttle open)

[BlueSnBikes]

Yeah, Thanks again Ron for stepping up to the plate. I realise you would have done this for your own personal satisfaction, but you were and are, more than willing to share your thoughts, discoveries and facts with the rest of us. For that we are extremely grateful and so are our bikes.:tour Thanks man.:clap

Peace,

Darrin

[leo]

great job Ron, got your new maps... I will try them out.

thanks

[jimmyheadgear]

Ron

You're the greatest!

Thanks for all your hard work.

When the bike comes home with her new cams, she'll have a new map to boot!

[883 custom]

Thank you Ron for the new maps, they look awesome. Can't wait to try them both out:D

[883 custom]

Hey Ron on the Modified 35 map I noticed at 5,000 rpms it is set at 35.2. Was that put in like that for a reason? Just wondered the other maps where the same across the board.

[Turbota]

883 custom ... 35.2 degrees timing ... You have good eyes!

Actually, it was written in because once I had my good friend at NASA run this program on there 'Interplanetary Orbital Transit Computor", they noticed an anomoly in the flow wave during the 4,900 - 5,175 rpm range. The 0.2 degrees of additional advance was the fix.
___________________________________________

Actually, that was a malfuction of my "clicker finger". :p

Should have been 35.0

You are welcome to change it though.

[BlueSnBikes]

883 custom ... 35.2 degrees timing ... You have good eyes!

Actually, it was written in because once I had my good friend at NASA run this program on there 'Interplanetary Orbital Transit Computor", they noticed an anomoly in the flow wave during the 4,900 - 5,175 rpm range. The 0.2 degrees of additional advance was the fix.



This is too wierd, man. I actually noticed the anomoly myself using my abacus and the odd fingers on my LEFT hand. Just too wierd.


Peace,

Darrin

BTW, Yes, I WAS wearing my beanie.

[883 custom]

[QUOTE=Turbota]
Actually, it was written in because once I had my good friend at NASA run this program on there 'Interplanetary Orbital Transit Computor", they noticed an anomoly in the flow wave during the 4,900 - 5,175 rpm range. The 0.2 degrees of additional advance was the fix.
___________________________________________

:D :D :D :D

[Turbota]

Folks .... Let me know which MAP (33 or 35) works best in your bike. Both these MAPs are almost identical except for WOT operation, so the only difference you should really notice is WOT once the rpm gets up close to 4,000 - 4,500 and above.

Thanks,
Ron

[883 custom]

I loaded the map 35 today, have not got a chance to ride it though. As I was working on the bike a question popped into my head. If I were to disconnect the battery, to like bring it inside or something, would the map I loaded be erased or is it stored in the ignition? TIA

[Turbota]

The module has a PROM (Programmable Read Only Memory) chip in it ... Won't loose anything when the battery is disconnected. Just like taking the batteries out of a laptop ... Everything still stays in the hard drive's memory.

[883 custom]

The module has a PROM in it (Programmable Read Only Memory) ... Won't loose anything when the battery is disconnected. Just like taking the batteries out of a laptop ... Everything still stays in the hard drive's memory.
Thanks Ron:)

[Turbota]

For you folks that are using the MAP I sent you (latest is the 33 & 35), you can uncheck the "Fixed Initial Timing" block in the "Edit Module Parameters" area. Doing this will allow you to use the "Initial Timing" switch on the TC88A module. Be advised that the "Advance Slope" switch will still be unoperative.

Leaving the Initial Timing switch on the module in the #5 position will NOT alter the MAP from the way it was written by me .... but, if you decrease the switch lower than #5, it will decease all the timing across the board by 1 degree for every switch position less than #5. Increasing above #5 does the opposite.

After unchecking the "Fixed Initial Timing" and then reloading the MAP into your TC88A, you will be able to see what I'm talking about by just starting the bike and letting it idle while you open up the TC88A Data Logging program and clicking on "View Real Time Data".

You will see that both the 33 and 35 MAP shows exactly 15 degrees timing (as long as your idling at 1,000 rpm and are in the #5 switch position), That's the way I wrote the MAP tables ... But you will see the idle timing increase 1 degree of timing for every switch position above #5, and decrease idle timing 1 degree for every switch postion below the #5. I believe this 1 degree for every switch position effects not only idle timing, but [all] timing 1 degree to include WOT timing.

Anyway, I unchecked the "Fixed Initial Timing" block because I don't own the cable (mine was borrowed). By doing this, if I happen to get a slight amount of pinging in the summertime here in Arizona, I don't have to go find another cable and modify the timing tables ... I can just turn the switch down a little lower than #5.

On the other hand, I may want to try a slightly higher setting than #5 while on the dyno someday to see if a little increase of timing can make me some more HP.

Bottom line .... I like the timing tables in the programs I wrote ... but this just gives me an oportunity to tweek it a little without going in and changing the whole damned program at a later date. The actual timing slope of these 2 modified MAPs are great. I don't want to change them. The switch position retains the same slope ... just increases or decreases the timing numbers 1 degree for every switch position (other than position #5)

You may want to do the same thing as I have done ... just gives some flexability to the MAPs.

Ron,

[Lynk]

I've been thinking about it, Ron. However, I was thinking that it would be nice to throw in a capsule of Rocket Fuel, and bump the table up a couple of notches... Ya know, just for fun! :D

[Turbota]

Good idea ... Go to a paint store and put in a 1/2 gallon on Tolulene or Zylene with 2 galons of gas and bump the timing up to #9 ... or just buy race gas if you can find it in your area.

Now, if you really want to go fast ..... Hydrazine (rocket fuel) is what you need! :) Good luck finding that!

[Corvos]

Ron,
Just wanted to thank you for the hard work you put in on the tables. I recently purchased a TC88a and loaded in your numbers. Works great in cold weather starting and once the snow clears I'm sure I'll be even more impressed. Starting an NRHS 883/1200 conversion and I have no doubt the spark will be there when I need it. I bought a cable and you're welcome to borrow it postage paid anytime. Thanks again for the hard work.
Frank

[Turbota]

Corvos ...

Frank,
Thank's for the offer. :) You will be the 3rd person I have borrowed a cable from. I didn't think I would need one again, but I am changing my front drive belt sprocket from the 29 tooth to a smaller 28 tooth from an 883 ... so, it will throw off the speedo until I re-adjust the VSS to get it acurate again.

You did get the 'MAP Modified 33' and the 'MAP Modified 35'? (they are the latest)

Ron,

[Corvos]

Ron,
I copied the spreadsheet data from Mod 33. Fired everything up to ensure I had good spark prior to doing my conversion. Since I have snow here, I wasn't able to fully test the curve, but the improvement was IMMEDIATELY noticed for cold weather starting. Just let me know when you need the cable and thanks again!
Frank

[radar]

I loaded Ron's 33* map in my scoot, and all I can say is WOW!
I hadn't expected to be able to do this until March, but something came up to bring me home early.
The ignition was the last of the mods done this winter, which included a RamFlo AC and V&H Straghtshots with quiet baffles.
Considering this was an untested shotgun change to the bike (SEII's and Hurricane before) it seems to really have woken up. I also removed the washers from the needle, because I didn't see any performance difference with them in.
Thanks a lot Ron for all your efforts, and anyone who's been following this thread- the TC88A is one of the best things you can do to your Rubbermount!

[Turbota]

Thank you Walt! :)

[radar]

I like those new rotors Ron, stopping faster should probably be my next project!

[Turbota]

Well, I'm not working for / or paid by Chris at Trak-Tek, but it is really nice to have folks like Chris @ Trak-Tek and Aaron or Dan @ NRHS to do business with.

And as far as the full floating brake rotors ... it's kind of nice to install some quality pieces that are [not] made in China! There certainly is nothing wrong with these brake parts MADE in England. That's a fact.

[radar]

I forgot to mention how cool it is to be able to look at what your engine is doing on your PC real time, or the stored data on the module. This is really a neat system.

[Johnny G]

I finally changed from the Modified map to the new 33 map and the low speed rideability is soooo much better it seems smother and it does not jerk at real low speeds like the modified map did. I have a 05 1200C and crap Cali 91 oxy fuel so I decided to just go with the 33 map and when summer comes and the heat goes up I shouldn't have to worry about detonation, Great job Ron it would be hard to improve the way my bike runs now.

[BlueSnBikes]

Folks .... Let me know which MAP (33 or 35) works best in your bike. Both these MAPs are almost identical except for WOT operation, so the only difference you should really notice is WOT once the rpm gets up close to 4,000 - 4,500 and above.

Thanks,
Ron

Hey Ron,

Had a great day here in Chapel Hill, N.C.! Pert near 70 degrees (as the locals would say). Friggin' beautiful (as I would say).Uploaded the latest 35 Map on my 883 '04 XL/C and my baby ran beautifully. The additional diminishing of timing in the lower rpm's took care of the coughing, unburned fuel in the exhaust, I dunno whatever you want to call it, the timing seems to be ON. Behaves through out the gear box and pulls the best she has. Looks to be the best MAP yet fer my ride. Kudos, Ron. Thanks!:tour


Peace,

Darrin

[SportsterSpive]

I lose my tacho and speedo output at random intervals - e.g. on the way to work this morning I'm riding along ok and then suddenly, no tacho and no speedo. I have to switch off the engine and restart to get them back again.

Sometimes this happens when I start up as well. It is easier to restart then but when crusing along on the expressway I'm not too happy having to shutdown and restart. Anyone else excperience this?

Apart from that, I love the TC88A. I've just loaded Ron's modified map and it works great so far.

Cheers,

Brett

Glad to know I am not alone in having this problem. Is there any information as to why this is happening? Anyone in So Cal have a cable I can borrow?

--Sean

seanpholman@mac.com

[Turbota]

Brett ... This has only happened to me once. All of a sudden, no tach or speedo. Like you said ... turn off the ignition and restart and everything is ok again.

I have no idea why this happens ... but like I said, only happened once to me.

P.S. Glad everyone liked the new "MAP Modified 33" or the "MAP Modified 35" programs. :)

Sean .... I sent you an email with the new MAP 35 program.

Ron,

[bshadbolt]

Hi Ron,

I have to say it hasn't happened recently - not since the bike died and it turned out to be a loose battery cable. I wonder if it was intermittent loss of battery connection which was causing this problem.

Cheers,

Brett

[SportsterSpive]

Hey guys,

I spoke with Chris at DTT today and once my dyno is done, I am going to send them my TC88A so they can investigate why the tach and speedo go dead. Obviously a couple of us on the board have had the issue, but they said I was the first one to call on it. So we'll see what they say.

I also broke down and ordered the USB cable, but they gave me a good price, and I am having it overnighted today so we can test the bike on the dyno with Turbota's program.

--Sean

[Turbota]

Sean ... I also just emailed you the 33 MAP program too. This is the one I use since I have 10.5 to 1 CR and only 91 octane premium here in AZ.

The 33 and 35 programs are almost identical except the 33 program has 2 degrees less timing than the 35 program above 4,500 revs while at wide open throttle (WOT).

[SportsterSpive]

Got the 33 program installed this morning. Bike started up right away and seem to run fine on the test ride. I had to adjust my idle on the carb to bring it down to 1100rpm. Didn't feel any major difference in rideability on my short run, but I did notice smoother throttle response of idle (low speed manuevers). I am excited to see how it does on the dyno.

Ron, does the 35 program you sent me include the VSS correction? I might load that on next for shits and giggles and see if 35 wakes the bike up more without pinging.

--Sean

[bshadbolt]

Hey guys,

I spoke with Chris at DTT today and once my dyno is done, I am going to send them my TC88A so they can investigate why the tach and speedo go dead. Obviously a couple of us on the board have had the issue, but they said I was the first one to call on it. So we'll see what they say.

I also broke down and ordered the USB cable, but they gave me a good price, and I am having it overnighted today so we can test the bike on the dyno with Turbota's program.

--Sean

I sent him a couple of emails on this a couple of months ago but didn't get any response. He did respond about other issues but not about why the speedo/tach kept dropping out.

Cheers,

Brett

[Turbota]

Sean ... both the 33 and 35 MAPs I sent you have the VSS set at 1431 which is supposed to be correct for the 04 883 as per Twin Tec. Remember, I did not check the "Fixed Initial Timing" mode on both your programs, so the "Initial Timing" switch will still work on your TC88A module. Set it at #5 and the timing will be exactly what I wrote in the program. Each click below 5 will decrease all the timing 1 degree ... each click above 5 will increase it 1 degree (that's ALL timing from idle to max rpm WOT).

Brett ... I have no idea why the speedo and tach drop out. Mine has done this once. It has to be an issue with the TC88A module itself.

Ron,

[SportsterSpive]

Yeah, I threw on the 35 program today and it feels better. Can't wait to see how it does... I will let you know.

Also for anyone having issue with the cable communication, make sure your Comm Port setting in Devices is the same for BOTH programs. That was my mistake, forgot to modify for the port I assigned the USB cable.

--Sean

[ctilson]

I'll have to echo the "Thanks Ron." I gave up trying to make my own cable, but you are welcome to use my USB cable.

I finally loaded the MAP 33 and like it better than any switch settings I tried. I'll have to try the "initial timing" option.


I've had the speedo (no tach installed) go out twice. Both times I was "getting on it" and wondering what speed I had gotten to so quickly. Both times rebooting fixed the problem. Seems there is a Microsoft joke in there.

PS: Is this thread in the running for a longest ever award?

[Turbota]

ctilson ...

Glad it worked out for you. So you tried both the 33 and the 35 program?

My tach and speedo stopped working once too. I think someone already told Twin Tec about this problem. They really need to do a fix of some kind because it seems to effect everyone with a late model Sporty sooner or later.

Thank's for the offer to use your cable. I will certainly keep that in mind. :)

Ron,

[SportsterSpive]

Yeah, I told them about it.

--Sean

[radar]

Went out for a short blast on the scoot today, only a couple of roads clear of salt so I was limited in my travel.
When I got back I hooked up the PC to the bike to read the data, all is well.
Then I start the bike back up to check real time data for an idle speed check (no tach on the C), and in the status box I get Engine Running, and under that, No cyl ID. Damn, what's that mean? Brought the laptop out to the garage and got the same thing.
So I called Twin Tec and asked if this was a problem, talked to the boss and he said this was common in Sportsters and nothing to worry about. Whew!
Thought you all might like to know if you saw this in your bike's real time data.

[jimmyheadgear]

The weather has been great around here the last few days. I was able to try both the 33 and 35 maps Ron wrote.

The best set up for me was to load the 35 map and uncheck the "fixed initial" box and then set my TC88 initial switch to 4.

My bike started and idled real good. The pull through the mid rpm's was smooth, and the pull at WOT was great!

Thanks again Ron!

[radar]

Took mine out for a 120 mile shakedown yesterday. Ran flawlessly the whole ride, hammered on it hard a few times and nothing but smiles.
I'm running the 33* map with fixed initial, pretty sure I'll leave it as is.
Thanks again Ron.:banana

[Shamdog]

Ron and all -

I got my TC-88 used and the brown wire does not have a plug on it, it's just cut off. That's where the plug should be to hook it up to the computer, right? Another question...If that's the right wire, it looks like just a solid core, single strand. Does this sound right? It doesn't to me.

[jimmyheadgear]

Sham

Here's a couple of pics from my set up. My jumper wire is the white one. See if they help.

The plug you're looking for is behind the battery cover.


http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b189/jimmyheadgear/Picture003Medium.jpghttp://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b189/jimmyheadgear/Picture001Medium.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b189/jimmyheadgear/Picture004Medium.jpg

[leo]

Hey Shamdog, is your bike a 2000 model? the pics i've seen are for rubbermounts... maybe someone with a pre rubbermount model can help ...

[Shamdog]

Yea, I have the "Nose Cone" type. I'm just worried about how to get the connector and if it'll work with a single wire. Most PC connections I've ever seen have multiple wires going into the plug.

[leo]

Shamdog, try this link...
http://www.daytona-twintec.com/model_1005.html
if in doubt, you can always call their tech support line.

[Shamdog]

Leo -

Way ahead of you, bro. Called and got them to send the whole install pack for $12.00. They don't put the plug on, it comes as an accessory item that you install if you want to.

Thanks for the tip.

[leo]

give us an update on how this works out for you.

[naru]

Ron,

I don't remember what I did or how I get it done, but I finally did it! :banana

It looks like the problem that I mainly had was the COM port configuration.

The connection between the USB cable and my PC was NOT just the way it was supposed to be.

With your map installed, my "Re-Born" Sporty runs totally different! :banawala

Thanks, Ron!

Make sure you stop by to see me in Tokyo when you come to see your son in Osaka. :jpflag

[Red]

Thanks Turbota,
I've installed TC88A that used your MAP for my Sportster.
My bike came to run very smoothly. :clap
I appreciate your great work on the maps. :urock

I've obtained REAL Sportster at last. :banarock

The stock module is a piece of crap.

http://www.geocities.jp/red4bass/for_xlf/IMG_0858.JPG

[xl1200r]

I have to say I'm VERY interested in this whole thing, and being able to get a refurbed unit for $115 is not much more than an SE ICM.

My only question would be how would future mods affect the tuning? From what I can gather, manifold pressure is the only thing that *should* really change anything, and compression. But will more aggressive cams, different exhaust/intake setups, or anything of the like have an effect on these curves?

[Turbota]

xl1200r ..... Since the TC88A is capable of any ignition spark curve you would want, to include an adjustable rev limiter, it will not negatively effect your future mods. In fact, it will inhance them.

Ron,

[Shamdog]

Ok, since you all wanted to know how it worked out for me, here's the rather long story.

After I called DTT about the connectors, the guy said I had the wrong one (model 1005) and sold me a 1005S. It had the short harness with the little pins at the end of the wires and a connector package/kit. Cool, but then I realized that all I needed with the other one was 6 of those little Deutche connector pins to crimp onto the wires and I would have been golden.

Shameless plug here - I have a DTT ignition for sale!

Anyway, I put it on with not too much drama. Put on a DTT single fore coil and wired it up nice. I didn't have a timing light so I figured I would set the static timing and then take it to a local indy to hit it with the gun.

The static timing method is to get to TDC on the front cylinder and then, with the ignition on, rotate the module until the little red LED goes on, then rotate back until it goes off.

Well, no matter how long I waited and what I tried, I could never get the LED to light up. I got pissed and wired up the second unit I had bought to see if I was getting juice. Still no LED. Then I hooked unit #2 directly to the coil and still nothing...Must have shorted the power, I thought. Pulled off unit #2 and thought it through again...nope, all seems right.

Now I figure to hell with it, I've got to test this thing and see if the bike will fire. So, since I can't set the unit to it's proper place, I get a bold idea. I take the used unit I had bought (unit #2) which still had marks where Narley had tightened down the standoffs. I held unit #2 in front of unit #1, which was installed, and lined up the marks on #2 with the standoffs. Then I looked at the angle it was at and then set unit #1 to look the same. Tried to fire it up and no-go. Seemed like no spark. I was about to shoot myself when I decided to do one more check.

OOPS...I had forgot to hook the coil back up. Duhhh. Hooked it back up and still no LED. $@#*!$@#*!$@#*!$@#*! it...Hit the starter and she fired right up. NOW the little bastard was lit!

End of story is, even with my "Eyebal" timing, she runs like never before. I mean this bike screams. I started wit it set on 3/7 but was getting some ping in high gears so I backed it off to 3/5 and bumped my jet from 160 to 165.

Damn this bike runs good. Did I mention that I have another module for sale?

[Turbota]

Shamdog ... I am very happy you got your bike running good .... :)

Here is the disclaimer on all the stuff I have been writing here:

Everything that I have writen ONLY pertains to the rubbermount 04-06 bikes. These bikes DO NOT use a VOES. They have a MAP sensor that detects 8 various manifold pressure situations .... I know absolutly NOTHING about any adjustable ignition module other than the Twin Tec TC88A used on the 04 and later bikes.

I am absolutly clueless when it comes to something other than the TC88A.

You got a question about the TC88A .... I am here to help you, and will not bullshit you with untruths and unproven crap.

Ron,

[Shamdog]

So Ron, you don't have anything for a built pre-'04?

[Turbota]

So Ron, you don't have anything for a built pre-'04?

Sorry ... I only know about the TC88A programable module.

I'm sure others here know about the other ignitions

[Am-hd]

For pre 04 modules you have to buy an aftermarket system which is progammable, on a standard 1200 it is not a problem but with a 1200s it is as it does not have a VOES but a system similar to the tc88, but the tc88 does not fit as far as i know. I have found that you can take out the 1200s ingition , map sensor ( voes) and put in a after market coil, ingition, VOES etc . It would be good if i could fit a tc88 to the standard system. I did put a SE system on but all that did was increase the rev limit nothing more, waste of money. Can any body help here

[Turbota]

Your right ... The 1200-S uses a MAP sensor much like what is used on the 04 and later bikes. The other pre-04s used a VOES which was an inferior system in that it reported only 2 separate manifold pressures (high vacuum/low vacuum) to the ignition module .... A MAP sensor reports 8 separate manifold pressures, so it's much more acurate.

The problem with using a Twin Tec TC88A on a 1200-S is that the TC88A needs a 12 pin Deutsch connector to hook up the the TC88A module. Your 1200-S don't have a harness like that ..... so, you would basically have to replace the complete harness with one from an 04 or later .... maybe impossible to do.

I never looked that deep into the Twin Tec website, but don't they sell an adjustable ignition that is compatable with a 1200-S Sportster Sport?

Ron,

[Am-hd]

thanks dude , as far as i can find on the web there is not an adjustable one for the 1200s pre 04, will look into Twin Tec website and maybe ask the question about what i can do. Thanks again
grit teeth turn throttle

[Am-hd]

the system they sell is replacing the coil and map sensor with the voes etc, not what I want , really want to keep map sensor. Must get a wiring diagram for a 04 plus and see what the diff is, maybe i can work it out.

[Shamdog]

What I was asking was, "Will the MAPs yor wrote work on my 2000 with a TC88 1005S Ignition?" I'm thinking not.

[Turbota]

Shamdog ....

The MAP program I wrote will not install into your ignition. The application is not compatable .... but, if you can program your adjustable ignition module with a laptop, you could use some of the ignition advance numbers from the program I wrote and just program them in yourself.

[Shamdog]

Hey…I forgot the best part of my story. The DTT instructions state that a Sportster should not be revved over 5,700 RPM so that’s where I set my rev limiter. I head out to the back roads and she’s running awesome. I decide to try to take it right up to the limit. Before the DTT, I used to hit limit at about 90 MPH in 4th gear (I don’t have a tach).

So, I fall back from my riding buddy and downshift into 3rd and go WOT. I finally crap my pants as I push past 75 MPH in 3rd with no limit in sight. WOW, did it feel good all the way up. Since I don’t know where the stock limiter was set (Anyone know?), I’m wondering if the DTT is broken and the limiter doesn’t work. I’d hate to blow my motor up (especially at those speeds) looking for a limit that wasn’t there.

So, next stop I set the limit to 4,700 and it works fine. Guess I just need more balls. Speaking of which, the rev limit that was on the unit I bought from Narley was set at 7,300 RPM if I remember correctly…Man, That’s balls!!!

[Turbota]

I have shifted my bike at 7,000 revs many many times .... It hasn't broke yet

Stock crank and rods

[jsellner]

Ron, great info bud. Posts like these is why I joined! thanks.

[Johnny G]

Maybe this is what the screaming eagle ignition module is all about, the engine is good to 7000 rpm and for another chunk of change HD upgrade we will let you have it, or else we will turn it back to 4700 and make you suffer for life. Why would they sell a over the counter performance module that all it does is raise the limiter to 7000 and keep the original timing so its EPA friendly. GM could do that with the Corvette, they could put a 100 mph speed limit on the car and for a 1000.00 GM upgrade we could put the 250 mph module in it. I just sometimes have a hard time believing that HD would so freely sell a upgrade that would scatter parts , and also one that could be put back to stock in just a minute for warranty.

[XL O.C.D.]

Holy Cow, I'm half way through page 3 and have already learned a ton. Most of all, I learned I need a cable ASAP! Turbota - this stuff all sounds very interesting. Thanks!

[XL O.C.D.]

45 minutes of reading and I'm done! Anyone want to rent out their cable? Please????

[ZanexGt]

I got my TC88A installed and I love it. The sporty fired right up and everything went according to Turbota's directions in another thread THANKS TURBOTA.

As for performance, well it's pouring outside, damn! However, my bike 'needs' to warm up before I push the choke in half-way. Usually, I pull the choke completely, start, and run for 2 mins, then push to 1/2 choke for another 3 mins till she's ok to run w/o choke. Then there are carb farts.

Today, damn, she fired up and instead of keeping the choke on, I pushed it in all the way after 20 seconds of running, she ran great. No farts, started great, speedo works, life is good. The TC88A was my only change.

Thanks everyone.

[Gone]

What, if any, changes in mpg has anyone noticed? Or has everyone been riding it like they stole it since installing the MAP;)

[The guy with the 883C]

I too would like to know the answer to the question that bakins asked.

Also, should one dyno-tune their stage 1 to perfection FIRST, then add the TC88A and maps, or do the ignition and atage 1 and then dyno-tune everything?