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alleydude
21st January 2005, 21:23
Okay, so when we got the '72, the guy tells us that it doesn't have the oil filter because whenever he tried to use one it puked oil out the overflow and oil cap.

Okay fine.

Well, as time goes by we discover that even without the filter (which we have yet to get for the '72) it still pukes oil out the cap and overflow.

Any ideas why?

And before you chew us out for riding the '72 without a filter, we probably put less than 150 miles on the '72 since we got it.

flathead45
21st January 2005, 21:27
no problems with my 72 , no filter

might be your check valve in the oil pump , causing a wet sump condition

alleydude
21st January 2005, 21:32
Is that bad? :eek:

dabronco
21st January 2005, 22:01
If it's 'wet sumping' , the oil from the tank drains back to the engine, indicating on the dipstick, a low oil level. start the bike for about 30 seconds and shut it off and check the oil if it's higher on the stick than it was before you started it, some oil is draining back to the engine. If that's the case, you may have been thinking the oil level was low, added oil and as a result, overfilled it.

alleydude
21st January 2005, 22:23
Okay, good information. So this check valve, which by my shop manual looks to be nothing more than a ball bearing, does what? and why would it cause the oil to do what you discribe?

Next stupid question. I found the oil pump and it appears that removing it requires removal of the motor from the frame, something I do feel I am ready to do. Can I remove the check valve without removing the pump? It looks as though I probably could.

Thanks for the help.

flathead45
21st January 2005, 23:22
I haven't done it my self yet so I don't know if it can be done "inframe"

what happens is the oil drains into the motor and when you start it the oil pump can't get rid of it fast enuff so it has to go somewere and out the breather tube is the only other place it can go
the ball and seat of the check valve must be seated (I'm not sure how to describe it, so google it up) and the spring sould be the proper length (check fm)

this will mostly happen after sitting a long time and only at start up , after the sump (bottom end) is cleared it will stop til the next time it sits a while

alleydude
21st January 2005, 23:39
Okay, well I will try pulling the one thing-a-ma-jig off and see what happens. Maybe I should drain the oil first...?

Naaaaaa.

flathead45
22nd January 2005, 01:06
I reread your first post , am I right in thinking that it is puking while running and not just at startup ? and its leaking out the cap on the tank?

I think I miss took your fisrt post , if I did I'm sorry and your trouble might just be a bad gasket on the oil tank cap

alleydude
22nd January 2005, 01:11
You think it might be that simple? Hmmmm. Okay, I'll look into that.

flathead45
22nd January 2005, 01:14
if it was wet sumpin' then the oil would be pukin out the crank breather under the front exhaust pipe (the small pipe coming out the timming case by the generator)

HrdlyDangrs
22nd January 2005, 01:41
Possibly an improperly timed breather valve.

Normally if too much oil gets past the check valve and finds its way into the crankcase...upon start-up, the excess oil should blow out the breather tube only....if the breather is timed correctly per the manual.

If not I think the excess crankcase pressure will come back to the oil tank when the scavenger valve starts to pump oil back to the oil tank, which would pop out the filler plug and out the oil tank vent.

Did the previous owner rebuild the oil pump or motor??

alleydude
22nd January 2005, 01:54
That I don't know, but it probably indicates the worst case scenario, huh?

That would mean pulling the motor, I guess, to fix. :yikes

dabronco
22nd January 2005, 02:13
Oil pump in a 77 can be removed in frame. Straight down. Drain oil first, or when you disconnect the hoses it WILL drain for you. Try this...Take a plastic mallet and rap on the pump lightly toward the front, (near the check valve) and that may free it up so it will seal. Do it while it's running. Mine started wet sumping a couple of weeks ago and I did that and it quit. Remember...LIGHTLY!

HrdlyDangrs
22nd January 2005, 02:47
Sorry allydude....... I was under the assumption that he 77 had the same oil pump as the 76 and earlier.......

However, I have just looked up the 77 pump in my parts catalog and I can see that you have the later type gerotor oil pump, which is very different from the 76 and earlier pumps, as well as different removal and repair procedures.

I'll research some more.....

alleydude
22nd January 2005, 02:48
Thanks, but this is on our '72.

HrdlyDangrs
22nd January 2005, 03:03
Your right...I was correct the first time....I got side tract by debroncos last post talking about a 77'

Yes, so anyway.....if the oil pump on your '72' was removed for rebuilding or whatever reason...then it is possible they re-installed and screwed up the breather timing.

IF SO...then the only correct way to re-time the breather....which is attached to and a part of the oil pump itself...is to remove the gear cover and cams and set-it correctly per the Factory Manual.

It is not a difficult job, but it is a bit involved as you can imagine.....

You will have to remove the motor from the frame in order to remove the oil pump on your '72' XL

I would try all other fixes like flathead45's advise to try replacing the oil tank gasket.

If the minor repairs do not fix the problem then move on to the next possibility/repair procedure.

flathead45
22nd January 2005, 03:06
I was gone for a minute, sorry

I see hrdly's helpin ya out , good thing

ya try the simple stuff first , new gasket, lightly rap the pump body yada yada yada

dabronco
22nd January 2005, 03:19
Sorry I got you side tracked hardly, I Didn't look at the top of the thread before that last post an only went up far enuff to see the '77 in his signature. Yup, it's engine out time if the pump hasta come out. Let's hope not.

HrdlyDangrs
22nd January 2005, 03:19
Stick with us flathead...cause I tend to go deeper into repairs then sometimes might be necassary.....or someone else may want to go on their own.

allydude, are you working with a Factory Manual in front of you??

flathead45
22nd January 2005, 03:20
or he could take a sawsall to the frame under the pump :p then weld it back in :laugh

flathead45
22nd January 2005, 03:22
Stick with us flathead...cause I tend to go deeper into repairs then sometimes might be necassary.....or someone else may want to go on their own.

allydude, are you working with a Factory Manual in front of you??
I always try the simple ( and therefor cheaper) repares first before nut and bolting it

HrdlyDangrs
22nd January 2005, 03:23
Sorry I got you side tracked hardly, I Didn't look at the top of the thread before that last post an only went up far enuff to see the '77 in his signature. Yup, it's engine out time if the pump hasta come out. Let's hope not.

Tha's OK, like flathead I walked away and came back confusededed!!

alleydude
22nd January 2005, 03:26
allydude, are you working with a Factory Manual in front of you??


No, I have a Haynes Manual, actually. Thanks for all the input, folks. Good stuff.

flathead45
22nd January 2005, 03:29
what you doing alley ? runnin round the house on the kids track with it

that would be fun with the snow we're having right now on the other side of the lake

dabronco
22nd January 2005, 03:33
Be afraid alley...be VERY afraid!!!

HrdlyDangrs
22nd January 2005, 03:41
I always try the simple ( and therefor cheaper) repares first before nut and bolting it


Yes, your right, it could very well be a simple fix.....

Check for excessive oil level....
Check for poor oil tank gasket seal....

Then if there's still excess pressure coming back to the oil tank and causing the blow outs......I'm thinking it might be from excessive crankcase pressure.

My 68XLCH.....albiet it had a different oil tank and filler plug....once gave me the same trouble and started blowing out my oil filler plug/dipstick across the room.....and several times while riding it....soaking me and a friend of mine with hot oil......I recall going thru this same process and ending up having to tear into the motor..and performing the same procedures of rebuilding and re-timing the breather....In addtion I did a top end rebuild including replacing the piston rings......after that, I had no problems.......

Years later I can't be 100% which part of the rebuilding cured the problem....

Anybody else out there experienced allydude's problem??

Max Throttle
22nd January 2005, 11:53
Anybody else out there experienced allydude's problem??

not yet but good info and troubleshooting tips!!

at least for those of us not experiencing the problem we will have a clue whats up from reading this if it does start happening

MT

showmebandit
22nd January 2005, 12:11
well, it wont just puke oil out the camchest breather, it'll pour outta the top of the oil tank too...you DO NOT remove the oil pump to fix this....drain the oil,take the sending unit and fitting outta the end of the oil pump and make sure ya dont lose any of the gaskets or seals there, take an old pushrod outta something, I use a small block chevy pushrod cut into a short section, what ya want is the ball end...remove the spring and ball outta there and look it over good for signs of pitting...replace them both is a good idea, about two bucks or so at the dealer, prior to reinstalling though, take the compound and put a tiny bit on the end of the pushrod and spin it between your fingers in the hole there and re lap the seat a bit....clean it all out thouroughly with some Brake Clean or similar substance, reinstall the ball and spring and you should be set...I change mine out every year or so, been doing it 22 years on my 73 like this and it stopped the puking UNLESS ya let it sit for long periods of time...that will cause it to start again but you shuld just make sure there is OIL in the tank start, it up and run until its warm and recheck the oil level AFTER it stops puking..also check the cam chest breather tube and make sure its clear...that should fix uya up and then put the filter back in the tank....I've ran mine without a filter all these years so stop worrying about that...but use one if ya have one...My oil tank doesnt have a provision for a filter so I just change the oil more frequently.....

75oldschool
22nd January 2005, 15:54
here we go if i anderstaned right oil is coming from around oil cap if this is true here's my store started bike acouple day ago .ok! was leting the old boy warmup walking around the old boy when bam crap load of oil just start forming a lake under him shit shut down quike started looking around and oil was coming out of oil cap well this was a nice new crome cap dam what to do nice day for ride just got off work well put old cap back on started the old boy back up walk around bike praying and wham back to the old boy i know.new gasket was the problom old gasket was the answer this is just my story i road of in to the sunset that day THE END!

HrdlyDangrs
22nd January 2005, 16:14
well, it wont just puke oil out the camchest breather, it'll pour outta the top of the oil tank too...you DO NOT remove the oil pump to fix this....drain the oil,take the sending unit and fitting outta the end of the oil pump and make sure ya dont lose any of the gaskets or seals there, take an old pushrod outta something, I use a small block chevy pushrod cut into a short section, what ya want is the ball end...remove the spring and ball outta there and look it over good for signs of pitting...replace them both is a good idea, about two bucks or so at the dealer, prior to reinstalling though, take the compound and put a tiny bit on the end of the pushrod and spin it between your fingers in the hole there and re lap the seat a bit....clean it all out thouroughly with some Brake Clean or similar substance, reinstall the ball and spring and you should be set...I change mine out every year or so, been doing it 22 years on my 73 like this and it stopped the puking UNLESS ya let it sit for long periods of time...that will cause it to start again but you shuld just make sure there is OIL in the tank start, it up and run until its warm and recheck the oil level AFTER it stops puking..also check the cam chest breather tube and make sure its clear...that should fix uya up and then put the filter back in the tank....I've ran mine without a filter all these years so stop worrying about that...but use one if ya have one...My oil tank doesnt have a provision for a filter so I just change the oil more frequently.....

I think allydudes original post stated that the oil is blowing out the oil tank filler cap as well as the oil tank overflow line. Beside the repairs/maintenance proceedures you have mention, it could be something more, given they don't know the history of the engines maintenace/rebuilding and have only put on 125 miles since they purchased it.

Obviously all the good tips you and flathead45 and others have stated; ie start with the easy fixes first, should be performed.

I'm very interested in threads like this casue sometimes things aren't always so simple and it takes a little 'detective maintenace' to figure out whats actually happening to ones ride.

alleydude
22nd January 2005, 16:34
Again, thanks for all the tips. Unfortunately, it won't be until Spring until I can start the bike again and see if fixes work.

pappy-d
27th October 2005, 17:29
Been readin through this post and am intrigued! Don't want to steal this post but don't want to start another one. Just finished putting together a 71 900cc ironhead motor - spittin oil out the breather tube below generator. Only put 50 miles on it so far but,,, still spits oil after 10 miles or so (figured it would quit after running it awhile). Lots of good advice and suggestions here - where would ya'll start looking first?
Thanks in advance for your time
Pappy-d

IronMick
29th October 2005, 02:25
That is the crankcase breather. Originally it ran into the air filter [on my 1980]. People disconnect it and let it run onto the ground so as to not mess up the air filter.

If there is too much coming out i wonder if there is too much oil in there?