Does anyone know of sportsters being used for flattrack racing?

I'm talking about a stocker with mods, not an XR750. I want to make a street tracker out of my '07 1200R. My neighbor is a long time mechanic that would help me this winter making the bike convertible to dirt (lights off, front wheel brake off, ...). I was planning to use Storz parts.

883's were once an AMA pro class. Anyone have any experience from that era?

This could be a fun project. I used to TT and flattrack when I was a kid. There's no reason to get hurt, just playing around and at the least I'll have a nice street tracker next spring.

Any comments appreciated.

Doug

Does anyone know of sportsters being used for flattrack racing?

I'm talking about a stocker with mods, not an XR750. I want to make a street tracker out of my '07 1200R. My neighbor is a long time mechanic that would help me this winter making the bike convertible to dirt (lights off, front wheel brake off, ...). I was planning to use Storz parts.

883's were once an AMA pro class. Anyone have any experience from that era?

This could be a fun project. I used to TT and flattrack when I was a kid. There's no reason to get hurt, just playing around and at the least I'll have a nice street tracker next spring.

Any comments appreciated.

Doug

Check out the AMA site. (http://www.amaflattrack.com) you'll see that HD is very much still active in the FLAT TRACK racing.

Last year in the pro class, HD won the top 8 spots, 9 and 10 were suzuki and 11 and 12 were HD..

You may also like this information..

Want to Race A Motorcycle? (http://www.amadirectlink.com/amrace/torace.asp)

Does anyone know of sportsters being used for flattrack racing?

I'm talking about a stocker with mods, not an XR750. I want to make a street tracker out of my '07 1200R. My neighbor is a long time mechanic that would help me this winter making the bike convertible to dirt (lights off, front wheel brake off, ...). I was planning to use Storz parts.

883's were once an AMA pro class. Anyone have any experience from that era?

This could be a fun project. I used to TT and flattrack when I was a kid. There's no reason to get hurt, just playing around and at the least I'll have a nice street tracker next spring.

Any comments appreciated.

Doug

I have an '07. The rubber mounted rear motor mount is a problem on the newer frame. The rear motor mount is on 2 rubber donuts on the swing arm. On fast acceleration the motor torque creates lateral movement in the swingarm, then wallow (rear end steer).

The parts are #18 on the engine mounts page on the dealer Sporty parts book.

It may not make a difference on dirt, the slip may mediate the problem. However, sticky road tires w performance shocks does magnify the issue.

Unfortunately the era of Racing Sportsters in Flattrack ENDED in 2005. There are still a few Supertrackers running 1200cc XL and Buell tuber engines, but their frames are purpose built race frames, and are closer to XR750 Race frames than they are to XL frames. BTW- the 883 series ended in '05 because of the introduction of the Rubbermount XL's in '04 which are totally UNSUITABLE for Flattrack racing.
FYI, the H-D 883 Sportster Performance Series was a support class run by the AMA in conjunction with the Grand National Championship series.

H-D 883 Series Champs from '93-'05 (2005 was Last Year for Series)

1993- Ricky Graham of Salinas Valley, CA (RIP)

1994- Scott Stump of Warminster, PA

1995- Mike Hacker of Carson, VA

1996- Eric Bostrom of El Segundo, CA

1997- Dave Camlin of Rock Island, IL

1998- Jess Roeder of Monroeville, OH

1999- Willie McCoy of Justin, TX

2000- Willie McCoy of Justin, TX

2001- Bryan Smith of Flint, MI

2002- Jared Mees of Honeybrook, PA (Great Kid)

2003- Scott Scherb of Decatur, TX

2004- Christopher Hart of San Jose, CA

2005- Scott Stump of Warminster, PA

BTW- the 883 series ended in '05 because of the introduction of the Rubbermount XL's in '04 which are totally UNSUITABLE for Flattrack racing.

Thanks for all the replies. Is there a way to replace the rubber donuts in an '07 that would make a more solid mount?

Is there anything else I could do to make the bike handle better? Longer shocks to improve fork angle?

Any comments appreciated.

Sorry, but there is nothing you can do to make a Rubbermount suitable for flattrack, it would be way cheaper just to buy an old solidmount XL, then again... there is NO Sportster specific classes anymore. The only people racing a sportster based flattracker these days, would be in an Amateur Open class like the one for senior riders (age 40-up & 50-up), but most of those races are held on shorttracks and only on a 1/2mile(or mile) would a big fat sporty start working it's powerband.
Rubbermount XL's just aren't designed for Flattrack racing- plain and simple.
PS: FYI- even the old 883's were THE heaviest bikes to run in Flattrack in a few decades, but don't forget the late model rubbermounts are like 60lbs Heavier ! And most of that weight comes from the New frame and engine (aka Boat anchors).

Thanks for all the replies. Is there a way to replace the rubber donuts in an '07 that would make a more solid mount?

Is there anything else I could do to make the bike handle better? Longer shocks to improve fork angle?

Any comments appreciated.

Ralph I remember when a guy(Randy Texter) from your way won the harley 883 roadrace series the first year they had it ,and I also remember kevin Varnes also use to flat track an 883! Man I am getting old.

You could do the bike in street-tracker styling, but instead road race it. Either open track days or if you are in New England try a USCRA (http://www.race-uscra.com/AmericanTwinsRules.html) event.

Thanks for all the replies. Is there a way to replace the rubber donuts in an '07 that would make a more solid mount?

Is there anything else I could do to make the bike handle better? Longer shocks to improve fork angle?

Any comments appreciated.

As someone who is in the middle of finding a solution for the rubber donuts, my latest update:

Bought a rubber donut, my plan was to laser slice the center and replace with Dynel center donut to reduce squeeze. Brought it to a good machine shop that has a laser cutter.

Unfortunately, the laser can't cut that thick (3/8"). Mechanical precision slicing is only doable if rubber is frozen to -200/250 dgrees to take out flexibility. The new donut is larger than the old bagger donuts.

But HD has tried to mitigate the vibration with a stabilizer bar which is located top of the engine/frame ground. Its part #8 on the engine mounts page of the HD parts book. Tomorrow I'm going to look at the bushing (part # 6) of that stabilizer.

I leaning toward a fork damper as the final solution

That said, I agree; that the bike is not a good racing bike. I mean its cool, just can't handle fast.

BTW were the 883 racers using a HD frame? or custom.

And btw- Randy Texter is a friend of mine. And fyi, did you know that both his kids : Son-Cory(20), and Daughter-Shayna(17) have both turned Pro Flattrackers ! Randy was a good flattracker, but was an even better roadracer, but Kevin was/is still a Great Flattracker !
Ralph I remember when a guy(Randy Texter) from your way won the harley 883 roadrace series the first year they had it ,and I also remember kevin Varnes also use to flat track an 883! Man I am getting old.

The 883 Roadracers AND Flattrackers were actually pretty close to stock specs in all areas, as the class was supposed to low cost and competitive.
I tuned an 883 Flattracker for a friend, and the rules didn't allow very much in the way of non-OEM parts swapping, so basically you just blueprinted eveything you couldn't change, and everything else that was allowed- you went with good stuff ;)
BTW- almost all the 883 racers are now back on the roads in street legal trim.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2277/2513149586_a06ffa41dc_o.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2145/2513149584_0052fe908a_o.jpg

BTW were the 883 racers using a HD frame? or custom.

This just sounds like to much fun! Gotta find me a basket case to play with.

Too bad that class is history, it was a fun class...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3074/2512354997_42f19f09d3_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2344/2513194746_ffe6db8559_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3020/2512378719_36341fdb0b_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3189/2325435432_b0f18578d0_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3002/2325435438_8469ec2132_o.jpg

BTW- I have 100+ MORE 883 Flattrack Racing pix downloaded to my 883R Yahoo Group, join that group if you want to see the photos.

I always enjoyed the 883 Flattrack series. They were the bikes you rode to watch the races.

And btw- Randy Texter is a friend of mine. And fyi, did you know that both his kids : Son-Cory(20), and Daughter-Shayna(17) have both turned Pro Flattrackers ! Randy was a good flattracker, but was an even better roadracer, but Kevin was/is still a Great Flattracker !

I did not know Randy that well I met him through Bill at Penn State cycles when he was racing the Suzuki , lent Kevin my roadracer so he could get his wera licence, Myself and Bill have become really good friends through the years talk to him all the time. cool pic's !!!!!!!!!

...for posterity. Don't forget, these are ONLY 883's- NOT XR750's !

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2270/2513967278_8942c0baf5_o.jpg
Josh Toungett leads Scott Deubler and Timmy Mitchell
May 26, 2002 - Springfield Mile, Springfield, IL

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3002/2513152481_c25ed7d84e_o.jpg
Merle Scherb, Rusty Rogers, James Hart, A.J. Eslick, Robert Lewis, and Jared Mees.
August 10, 2002 - Hagerstown Speedway, Hagerstown, MD

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2255/2513162355_48efbb3ac9_o.jpg
A.J. Eslick & Jared Mees
September 22, 2002 - Scioto Downs, Columbus, OH

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3158/2513995276_2574eb2849_o.jpg
Jess Roeder & Jared Mees
September 22, 2002 - Scioto Downs, Columbus, OH

Notice the fork braces... BTW thanks for posting... nice pix

Yesterday I called Storz and talked to Steve himself. He said that racing a rubber mount is still an unknown. Today I talked to Bill Culver at C&J frames and he said they do nothing for rubber mounts. He suggested buying an older bike (i.e. Buell) and starting from there.

Problem is that I've already got this '07 Sportster and don't want to part with it. At least if I Storz it I can get most of my money back after I do my track racing or continue to ride on the street. If I buy a C&J frame, used bike, parts, etc. I'll spend more and what would it sell for?

The bottom line is that all I want to do is have fun. I don't have to win, but I don't want to finish last. I just want to skid around that 3/8 mile track they have here, have some fun and make some more memories.

First off, why would Bill Culver suggest buying a BUELL- to make into a Flattracker ? -thats an even WORSE idea !
And let me explain this one last time, a Fuel Injected Rubber mount- will NEVER be a Flattracker ! Nothing about the bike is suitable... not the 580lb weight, not the belt drive, not the 16" rear wheel, not the frame, not the 1200cc engine, not the fuel injection...IE- NOTHING !

Just Ride your 1200 and enjoy it for what it is. If you want to Race Flattrack- BUY a USED Flattrack BIKE ! (preferrably a single)
FYI- in the past few years I've attended approx 40 FT Races at short tracks and long, and not ONCE in any of those races have I even seen an older solidmount Sporty run, granted there may be some still running in the Senior unlimited classes, but I haven't seen them.
No offense Doug, but you're trying to make a silk purse out of a Sows Ear :frownthre


Yesterday I called Storz and talked to Steve himself. He said that racing a rubber mount is still an unknown. Today I talked to Bill Culver at C&J frames and he said they do nothing for rubber mounts. He suggested buying an older bike (i.e. Buell) and starting from there.

Problem is that I've already got this '07 Sportster and don't want to part with it. At least if I Storz it I can get most of my money back after I do my track racing or continue to ride on the street. If I buy a C&J frame, used bike, parts, etc. I'll spend more and what would it sell for?

The bottom line is that all I want to do is have fun. I don't have to win, but I don't want to finish last. I just want to skid around that 3/8 mile track they have here, have some fun and make some more memories.

Doug, one last thing. Have you even applied for an AMA Novice race number or looked into the rules for amateur competition ? Have you thought about Racer insurance ? Have you even talked to a track official about what class you might race in...which if you haven't raced in 4 decades- might limit you to small CC Novice singles class?

Ralph, lighten up. Sounds like you have some strong opinions and thanks for your concerns. I have talked to local officials and riders. In fact that's why I even went as far as mentioning my idea on this list. If you could have seen the open old timers class on the local 3/8 mile track you might appreciate my idea a little more. There were riders there older than me and much more inexperienced.

Bill Culver's comment on using a Buell was for the motor. Not the whole bike. The cost of a new C&J frame isn't that bad and the left over Buell parts can be sold on ebay.

If you ever get a chance to see the race in Tucson on a 3/8 mile track don't miss it. The XR750's were great, as were the 450's. Or if you're ever in Perris CA sportsters are on the track there.

http://www.perrisflattrack.com/photo%20pages/Misc.%20photos/P1190001.jpg

Best of luck to you then, and keep us posted on your endeavors.
And it's true, I AM a very opinionated "fiesty one" :D LOL
BTW- as for travelling to races(or travelling ingeneral), I don't venture any further west than Ohio these days, and live on a very tight budget. So I'm sorry I won't be able to spectate the venues you describe.

Ralph, lighten up. Sounds like you have some strong opinions and thanks for your concerns. I have talked to local officials and riders. In fact that's why I even went as far as mentioning my idea on this list. If you could have seen the open old timers class on the local 3/8 mile track you might appreciate my idea a little more. There were riders there older than me and much more inexperienced.

Bill Culver's comment on using a Buell was for the motor. Not the whole bike. The cost of a new C&J frame isn't that bad and the left over Buell parts can be sold on ebay.

If you ever get a chance to see the race in Tucson on a 3/8 mile track don't miss it. The XR750's were great, as were the 450's. Or if you're ever in Perris CA sportsters are on the track there.

Note the gearing on it, see that HUGE rear sprocket, that is whats necessary for an XL to run on the short tracks.... BTW- that "old timer" has a pretty nice ride. ;)
Or if you're ever in Perris CA sportsters are on the track there.
http://www.perrisflattrack.com/photo%20pages/Misc.%20photos/P1190001.jpg

Rags - You are getting into a very expensive bag of worms. There is an awful lot of misinformation about the rubber mounts. While I totally agree the rubbermount does not make a good platform to race on, I found the biggest problems to be associated with many other factors other than the rubbermounts themselves.

The common assumption that the rubbermounts cause the swing arm to twist out of alignment is probably false, and has never been proven. The rubbermounts do not hold the engine in line with the rear wheel/swing arm. The swing arm is mounted directly to the rear engine mount through a pivot shaft. The rear assembly of engine and swing arm is held in alignment with the front frame and forks by 3 stabilizer links. These stabilizer links allow the motor to vibrate up/down and move front to rear slightly. In theory, they do not allow lateral movement.

I suspect the swing arm pivot shaft and stabilizer links, and possibly lack of frame stiffness are the real problem. If that is true, making stiffer rubbermounts may not help much.

Read the 58815 link in my signature for more information.

I have never ridden the Stortz conversion, but it doesn't appear to be adequate for actual racing because it does not address the issues I mentioned above.

There is a company named Sta-Bo that makes, or did make, stiffer rubbermounts for other bikes, contact them.

http://sta-bo.com/index.html

Oh, and the rubbermount will go slideways. Check out the pictures in my photo gallery. It's not that the rubbermount bike can't be flat tracked, but it is probably the worst bike to attempt it on. I would recommend getting whatever bike is currently being raced at your local track.

XLXR thanks for the post. I'm not interested in racing the bike, but those that are will find your info very helpful.

My recent trip to the dealer and their parts bin was to investigate the rear stabilizer bar near the ground cable. I thought if the bushing were rubber I could have a Dynel one machined. Nah... it's aluminum so no give. The off setting (2-front & 1 rear) stabilizers should work, they seem to fall short.

I ordered a Storz steering damper to diminish high speed wobble. hopefully that will work.

BTW Stabol didn't make a bushing set for the new sporty motor mounts ('05 +). Their bushings fit on the baggers.

You might get a kick out of this. My rear suspension is tight - YSS gas shocks, Metz880 180/19. My local dealer tech's answer for wobble (after track alignment, chain adj, etc), was to increase tire pressure to over 40lb front/rear. I said; won't that bring more shock to the swing arm on acceleration & make wobble worse? No. he said, I've never had swing arm problems (he has 30 yrs experience) Hmmm.....

Swing arm parts

http://torags.smugmug.com/photos/299615363_9QHUB-M.jpg

Donut

http://torags.smugmug.com/photos/299618641_MZJhZ-M.jpg

I ordered a Storz steering damper to diminish high speed wobble. hopefully that will work.

I highly suggest you read my links. I have already solved most of your problems. I was able to eliminate wobble WITHOUT using a steering damper. A steering damper may hide the actual problem. But I always qualify that I stay 90 mph and under. I highly suggest you follow my suggestions, figure out how to apply what I have already learned, and then take it to the next step if you want.


You might get a kick out of this. My rear suspension is tight - YSS gas shocks, Metz880 180/19. My local dealer tech's answer for wobble (after track alignment, chain adj, etc), was to increase tire pressure to over 40lb front/rear. I said; won't that bring more shock to the swing arm on acceleration & make wobble worse? No. he said, I've never had swing arm problems (he has 30 yrs experience) Hmmm.....



40 lb tire pressure on Metzlers is again, very bad advice. The stock Dunlops needed 40 psi in the front only to reduce sidewall flex. I found that any more that 34 to 36 psi in the front Metzler causes wobble because the arc of the center of the tire tread gets too steep at those pressures which reduces contact patch. The rear tire pressure is not nearly so important.

Again, watch out who you take advice from. Been there, done that. You will also find Harley denies any wobble problems, they will not help. You will find more honest reports of wobble and how to fix it on this forum.

Another thought. How do you know that replacing the rubbermounts with aluminium won't cause the frame to crack from vibration? That could be dangerous.

Another thought. How do you know that replacing the rubbermounts with aluminium won't cause the frame to crack from vibration? That could be dangerous.[/QUOTE]

I wasn't going to do that. I was going to laser slice a portion of each donut out to replace that with nylon donut in the center of each (somewhat smaller diameter to allow for north/south flex, but reduce east/west flex by 50%+/-. Problem is, you can't cut 3/8" rubber with laser and if you want to precision cut the rubber, you need to freeze in hydrogen to -275F. The machinist had the skill but not the equipment.

HD put a aluminum bushing on the rear motor mount bolt, but I would guess it doesn't touch the casting or the frame. The bolts get the lateral loads.

BTW, the tech I spoke to probably had 30 yrs experience changing oil.

HD put a aluminum bushing on the rear motor mount bolt, but I would guess it doesn't touch the casting or the frame. The bolts get the lateral loads.


I am not sure what aluminum bushing you are talking about. (If you are going to do these mods, you might as well get a service manual so you can describe the part correctly.) I think you are refering to the swing arm pivot shaft. True, the bolts get the swing arm loads, but in all directions, not just laterally. I wondered if the pivot shaft could be reproduced out of a stronger metal, or slightly larger diameter for a tighter fit in the engine mount. I am not sure what keeps play from developing between the pivot shaft and the engine mount.

The forces that twist the rear tire (like it was steering, rotating on a vertical axis) are transmitted from the swing to the bolts, to the pivot shaft, to the rear engine mount, to the 3 stabilizer links, to the main frame, to the forks and down through the front tire. Notice I left the rubber mounts out of this chain.

The front to rear forces transmitted from the rear axle, acceleration and braking, will allow the rear tire contact patch to move forward and back in relation to the front tire contact patch. The rubbermounts are the primary opposition to this movement.

The up and down forces of the rear axle are primarily absorbed by the shock absorbers, or at least, are supposed to be. Due to the lever arm from the rear axle to the swing arm pivot shaft bolts, only a small, probably insignificant amout of this force is transmitted through the rear engine mount. Again, the rubbermounts are the primary opposition to this moverment. (One of my theories is overly stiff shocks can cause too much force transmitted to the engine, making it move around too much, but I have never proved that.)

I realized all this when I noticed every time I hit a bump in the road my engine would jump backwards because the belt was overtightened by the dealer, or factory, when new. (This caused some very weird and scary flexy frame feeling when hitting a bump in the corners.) This is because the rear wheel axle has a center at the swing arm pivot bolts, but the belt has a center at the center of the front pulley. Roadsters have longer shocks which allow the rear axle to move vertically through this position where the belt is tightest. Take the shocks off and loosen the belt until it no longer binds suspension travel, and the problem goes away.

The next thing to fix is getting the frame rails under the engine level with the floor while you are sitting on the bike. This is the end result from the front and rear spring rates, rider sag, and the position of the upper fork tubes in the triple clamps. If the rear of the frame rail is +/- 1/4 ", you may get into stability problems. I suggest start level, and as you get everything else worked out, you can move from there if needed. One of the problems with the aftermarket suspension companies is that they do not take this into account when making their spring and rider sag recommendations. I have verified this with Roadsters, XL 50, Nightsters, but not with Customs with the 21" front wheel.

Then get a fork brace, Metzlers, and the appropriate springs and other suspension related settings. Then add the steering damper.

As someone who is in the middle of finding a solution for the rubber donuts, my latest update:


I leaning toward a fork damper as the final solution

.
:frownthre:frownthre:frownthre:frownthre:frownthre
Rags.....I have a Storz unit....it helps....but is NOT the final solution. I still believe like you that the flex in those bushings contribute to misalignment that exacerbates the wobble.
Bruce

The next thing to fix is getting the frame rails under the engine level with the floor while you are sitting on the bike. This is the end result from the front and rear spring rates, rider sag, and the position of the upper fork tubes in the triple clamps. If the rear of the frame rail is +/- 1/4 ", you may get into stability problems. You may be on to something here. HD designs the front axle higher than the rear. 16" rear w 19 or 21" front (a 3" - 5"/2 difference). My tires are 19". I replaced the OEM shock with a 1" longer shock to clear the rear fender. The bottom line is I reduced the rake/trail. With a reduced trail the steering damper should be effective (but not the final solution)

I suggest start levelthat I have to check, and as you get everything else worked out, you can move from there if needed. One of the problems with the aftermarket suspension companies is that they do not take this into account when making their spring and rider sag recommendations. I have verified this with Roadsters, XL 50, Nightsters, but not with Customs with the 21" front wheel.

Then get a fork brace , Metzlers Got 'em, and the appropriate springs and other suspension related settings. Then add the steering damper.
Reply With Quote

How about a quick ride report before and after adding the 19" tires?

Would you believe that I never rode a Sportster. I'm in Norcal, bought the bike from Ventura HD, had it delivered to Storz, when finished I drove 350 miles to SF. I did rent a Vrod in Daytona for a couple of days.

Truth be told, I wouldn't have bought the bike if I rode it first. I'm a Beemer LD rider since 1972 and I never had handling problems like this before, even with my Brit bikes before that. But I'll do the best I can to get it right.

So how much of the Stortz stuff did you have them put on it? No, it will never be a BMW, but with the proper set up it can still be a very honest bike, for a middle weight cruiser.

So how much of the Stortz stuff did you have them put on it? No, it will never be a BMW, but with the proper set up it can still be a very honest bike, for a middle weight cruiser.

A middleweight tourer is exactly what I wanted. I didn't get the Storz Forks. They weren't adjustable & the triple trees maintained the OEM rake/trail (but larger diameter). The Buell front fender treatment they use looks great, but the fender is tupperware and gives no structural support. I didn't care for their shocks, they weren't gas and didn't have adj damping (as I recall).

I got the tank, seat and rims wired, chain, exhaust. They really don't do mechanical work, just some bolt on - and they are neat and nice people to work with.

http://torags.smugmug.com/photos/285486718_oepLo-M.jpg

Very Nice Rags!:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap

You really should have RODE your STOCK '07 883R before having it modded, it's nothing to brag about, but mine doesn't ever get any headshake problems, and I have it upto 110mph quite often :)
FYI- I have 10,000mi on my '07 883R now, and I've only had it 13 months. It's no Beemer, but it ain't that bad in stock form.

Would you believe that I never rode a Sportster. I'm in Norcal, bought the bike from Ventura HD, had it delivered to Storz, when finished I drove 350 miles to SF. I did rent a Vrod in Daytona for a couple of days.

Truth be told, I wouldn't have bought the bike if I rode it first. I'm a Beemer LD rider since 1972 and I never had handling problems like this before, even with my Brit bikes before that. But I'll do the best I can to get it right.

Thanks for the comment. Yup, Ralph is right. I just assumed that a manufacturer that's been in biz so long and the model being mature wouldn't have those problems.

Rags - Very nice. That was the direction I was thinking of going in originally. How about more details, how much do you weigh, what spring rates and length on the shocks, how does it ride now?

Here are my recommendations for set up:

1. Take the shocks off and make sure the chain tension does not bind up the rear suspension as the rear axle moves through a line formed by the swingarm pivot bolts and the center of the stock pulley. On a stock bike, 1/2 turn on the adjusters can make the difference between binding and not binding. Make sure you also get a good alignment.

2. Get a Superbrace fork brace.

3. Experiment with different tire pressures. Too high can reduce the contact patch and make it unstable, and loose braking traction, too low and the rim can bottom out against square edge bumps. I like pressures on the low side so I get maximum braking traction.

4. Measure the distance the frame rails are off the floor when you are sitting on the bike. Did you gain clearance? You can adjust the shock and fork preload, and adjust the height of the forks in the triple clamps to get the frame rails as close to level as possible.

5. Work on the forks. Put a plastic tie on them to see how much travel you use. If they are still stock, they are probably too soft. You can add up to 2 oz of fork oil to reduce bottoming, or add air valves. The Works Dual Rate fork springs are far better because you can adjust the crossover point between the initial low and final high rates. See my signature for details. DO NOT simply change to stiffer fork oil. That is the wrong direction because it slows movement of the forks too much.

6. Assuming the shock set up is correct, which basically means a smooth ride without bottoming out and not over damped, go back to the number 4 and set the chassis pitch to whatever position you want to give it the feel you want.

Get all this right, and then move onto the 1250 conversion. Contact Whittlebeast about his single disc brake upgrade. He changed the caliper and master cylinder.

Rags - Very nice. That was the direction I was thinking of going in originally. How about more details, how much do you weigh, what spring rates and length on the shocks, how does it ride now?

Here are my recommendations for set up:

1. Take the shocks off and make sure the chain tension does not bind up the rear suspension as the rear axle moves through a line formed by the swingarm pivot bolts and the center of the stock pulley. On a stock bike, 1/2 turn on the adjusters can make the difference between binding and not binding. Make sure you also get a good alignment.The dealer tech adjusted the chain, but that's good advice to check it

2. Get a Superbrace fork brace.Got it. Pic taken before install

3. Experiment with different tire pressures. Too high can reduce the contact patch and make it unstable, and loose braking traction, too low and the rim can bottom out against square edge bumps. I like pressures on the low side so I get maximum braking traction.I have & 38/40 seems OK.

4. Measure the distance the frame rails are off the floor when you are sitting on the bike. Did you gain clearance? You can adjust the shock and fork preload, and adjust the height of the forks in the triple clamps to get the frame rails as close to level as possible.I did gain clearance, I got about 5-51/2". I adjusted my preload according to shock manufacturer rate, then softened them to take some twist off swing arm. But I'm going back to that setting, cause now I get frame unstability from gusty cross winds

5. Work on the forks. Put a plastic tie on them to see how much travel you use. If they are still stock, they are probably too soft. You can add up to 2 oz of fork oil to reduce bottoming, or add air valves. The Works Dual Rate fork springs are far better because you can adjust the crossover point between the initial low and final high rates. I received progressive forks and the tech dissuaded me from putting them on so I sent them backSee my signature for details. DO NOT simply change to stiffer fork oil. That is the wrong direction because it slows movement of the forks too much. So far the set has tightened everything up. I figure the OEM front forks are OK now since its a one up road bike.

6. Assuming the shock set up is correct, which basically means a smooth ride without bottoming out and not over damped, go back to the number 4 that I gotta doand set the chassis pitch to whatever position you want to give it the feel you want.

Get all this right, and then move onto the 1250 conversion.Nah. I'm an old dog. I bought this bike to slo down for safety reasons. My current touring bike is a 95HP BMW R1150RS. I go for hours north & south of a buck and I just have to stop it. I wanted the HD to go 80-90 safely and it's not there yet. Contact Whittlebeast about his single disc brake upgrade. He changed the caliper and master cylinder.

Oh BTW, I'm an unrepentant squid.

Nah. I'm an old dog. I bought this bike to slo down for safety reasons. My current touring bike is a 95HP BMW R1150RS. I go for hours north & south of a buck and I just have to stop it. I wanted the HD to go 80-90 safely and it's not there yet.

That was also the big reason I bought the Sporty. I just don't want to go any faster. Good stability under all conditions at 90 mph is no problem on my bike. I never try to go any faster. Take the shocks off and loosen the chain before you do anything else. Nothing else will work if the chain is too tight. Especially if you see the motor jerk backwards when going over a bump.

I thought I would also share two simple test ride techniques that really illustrate how to judge the handling of a Sportster. In both cases, when I got my bike from the dealer, it was not very stable. Now it is very stable in both cases.

The first is to find a long, smooth constant radius turn. Set the bike in the turn and see how stable it is. If you let go of the bars, will the bike maintain the turn all the way through? You will have to keep one finger on the throttle. Find another turn with a bump in the middle and do the same thing to see how the bump upsets the suspension and balance of the bike.

The second is to start at 45 on a smooth straight road. Gently bump one hand grip and see if you get a small wobble. If no wobble, do it again at 50, 55, 60 and on up. If you do have a wobble problem it will show up at a certain speed and then get worse as you speed up.

Obvioulsy, you need to be very careful trying these. Start slow and increase your speed only if no problems occur.

Thanks for all the replies. Is there a way to replace the rubber donuts in an '07 that would make a more solid mount?

Is there anything else I could do to make the bike handle better? Longer shocks to improve fork angle?

Any comments appreciated.

Yes, sell your rubber mount and get a REAL Sportster SOLID MOUNTS RULE !!!!!!:clap:clap:clap:p:tour

...for posterity. Don't forget, these are ONLY 883's- NOT XR750's !

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2270/2513967278_8942c0baf5_o.jpg
Josh Toungett leads Scott Deubler and Timmy Mitchell
May 26, 2002 - Springfield Mile, Springfield, IL

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3002/2513152481_c25ed7d84e_o.jpg
Merle Scherb, Rusty Rogers, James Hart, A.J. Eslick, Robert Lewis, and Jared Mees.
August 10, 2002 - Hagerstown Speedway, Hagerstown, MD

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2255/2513162355_48efbb3ac9_o.jpg
A.J. Eslick & Jared Mees
September 22, 2002 - Scioto Downs, Columbus, OH

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3158/2513995276_2574eb2849_o.jpg
Jess Roeder & Jared Mees
September 22, 2002 - Scioto Downs, Columbus, OH



That is Josh Toungett on my 883 at Springfield. I built an tuned that very bike. Finished third that day. Nice photo, thank's for posting.

And don't be so scarce around here (or my Yahoo XL883R group), as I for one truly appreciate your posts and insight. Btw- if you went through my 883 Flattrack photo album on my Yahoo Group, you'd see a few MORE race pix of YOUR 883 !

That is Josh Toungett on my 883 at Springfield. I built an tuned that very bike. Finished third that day. Nice photo, thank's for posting.

And don't be so scarce around here (or my Yahoo XL883R group), as I for one truly appreciate your posts and insight. Btw- if you went through my 883 Flattrack photo album on my Yahoo Group, you'd see a few MORE race pix of YOUR 883 !

:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap
Gutman huh?:doh:laugh:laugh:laugh:laugh:laugh:laugh:laugh :laugh
Took me about 20 seconds to look at the avitar to figure out who you were!:laugh:laugh:laugh:laugh:laugh:clap

stock frames in the 883 series

Any updates from the guys trying to flat track a rubbermount?

The series is long gone now, but it was cool while it lasted. The bikes were pretty much stock except for wheels and suspension, and seat/tank. The motors were stock as well- although they were blueprinted, and had racing exhaust.stock frames in the 883 series

By the time he last posted here, he was convinced it was NOT a prudent endeavor. Since then, I've noticed he's been building his bike into a cafe racer of sorts, rearsets, bub/stroz pipes and thinking of going to R1 forks etc.... gotta give the old dude credit tho :laugh
He was supposed to go to Springfield GNC double header last month, I wonder if he ever made it back there ?
Any updates from the guys trying to flat track a rubbermount?

...gotta give the old dude credit tho...????????

This weekend I went to the AHMRA race at Sandia (Albuquerque). In one of the large bore races for modern and vintage bikes they had the top 5 finishers come to the finish line for interviews. When they all took their helmets off it was easy to see that they were all clearly older than me! You know that saying about age being a state of mind.

My sportster will only be a streettracker now. All the dirttrack races in this area have been canceled and no one is attempting to start the series again. So now I have it apart for painting. I do have R1 forks for it but still need an axle. I'd like to stay with the stock spoke wheels. We'll see.

I did miss the Springfield race over Labor Day. A few weeks before then someone broke into my place in Alaska and we decided to go there to take care of the homestead. Freakin crack/meth heads!!!!!! I was only one of 21 breakins in the last two months. Supposedly they arrested one of the guys....

The best news is that I got an '08 1125R a few weeks ago that I will be using for road racing/trackdays. I want to be involved in racing and if the only racing near me is road racing then that's what I need to do. You know the other saying about lemons and lemonade?

We have the Sandia race track here in Albuquerque and there's an all year track, Arroyo Seco, in Deming, NM.

The 1125 is way more bike than I thought it would be. My mechanic neighbor has a 1098 and a 996. He road the 1125 and said last night, after a few beers, that he thinks it might even be better than his 1098. I saw Doug Polen ride a 1098R this weekend and I was impressed with the 1098. We'll see.

Whatever, I get my competition license in two weeks and ride in my first race at Sandia. This should be a kick in the arse. I would have enjoyed flattrack but I can't see driving ~500 miles to the nearest event just to ride.

BTW Dave Aldana won his AHMRA road race class this weekend. He was in his skeleton leathers. Man that was cool.

Later, Doug

Hey Doug, how much insurance do you have ? Thats one mighty fast Bike ! I know, I rode one at an "Inside Pass" Track day last year.
BTW Doug, do you actually know how to "Hang off" a bike in corners ? If you don't, you really ought to enroll in a superbike school before you get in waay over your head !
But please, keep us updated on your Racing endeavors, and if we STOP hearing from you, I for one- am gonna assume the worst :wonderlan
You only live once :smoke
????????

This weekend I went to the AHMRA race at Sandia (Albuquerque). In one of the large bore races for modern and vintage bikes they had the top 5 finishers come to the finish line for interviews. When they all took their helmets off it was easy to see that they were all clearly older than me! You know that saying about age being a state of mind.

My sportster will only be a streettracker now. All the dirttrack races in this area have been canceled and no one is attempting to start the series again. So now I have it apart for painting. I do have R1 forks for it but still need an axle. I'd like to stay with the stock spoke wheels. We'll see.

I did miss the Springfield race over Labor Day. A few weeks before then someone broke into my place in Alaska and we decided to go there to take care of the homestead. Freakin crack/meth heads!!!!!! I was only one of 21 breakins in the last two months. Supposedly they arrested one of the guys....

The best news is that I got an '08 1125R a few weeks ago that I will be using for road racing/trackdays. I want to be involved in racing and if the only racing near me is road racing then that's what I need to do. You know the other saying about lemons and lemonade?

We have the Sandia race track here in Albuquerque and there's an all year track, Arroyo Seco, in Deming, NM.

The 1125 is way more bike than I thought it would be. My mechanic neighbor has a 1098 and a 996. He road the 1125 and said last night, after a few beers, that he thinks it might even be better than his 1098. I saw Doug Polen ride a 1098R this weekend and I was impressed with the 1098. We'll see.

Whatever, I get my competition license in two weeks and ride in my first race at Sandia. This should be a kick in the arse. I would have enjoyed flattrack but I can't see driving ~500 miles to the nearest event just to ride.

BTW Dave Aldana won his AHMRA road race class this weekend. He was in his skeleton leathers. Man that was cool.

Later, Doug

I'm getting instruction with the race license and there will be instruction with trackdays. I'm also signing up for lessons from Doug Polen at Laguna Seca. I've wanted to ride around Laguna since I first saw the AMA road races there in the 60's. After seeing Polen ride this weekend at Sandia I'm sure he can teach me a lot.

Ok, I'll be resting a little easier now. But I hope you're in good enough shape physically, cause it takes a little gymnastics to man-handle a roadrace bike around a track in the proper fashion. But it'll probably be a helluva lot easier for you that flattrack would have been. BTW- alot of X-Flattrack racers turn to AHMRA Roadracing in their old age....Jay Springsteen for one.

I'm getting instruction with the race license and there will be instruction with trackdays. I'm also signing up for lessons from Doug Polen at Laguna Seca. I've wanted to ride around Laguna since I first saw the AMA road races there in the 60's. After seeing Polen ride this weekend at Sandia I'm sure he can teach me a lot.