on to the dyno day report:

Blah, poor design of the charge pipe made for a wasted trip :doh . Under boost, I leaked like a seive at the charge pipe and intake connection.
Anyways, it sucked cause they were folks all gawking and expecting umpteen bazillion hp and it didn't even crest 80:roflblack :doh . I am thinking in a repaired state, after what I saw, I should be able to do my 100/100 goal.
Boost guage was fluttering like a butterfly and the HP was a measley 78.blah :-) Anyways, making 5 hp over stock and blowing enough boost out of a 1" wide spot to totally remove the paint on the charge pipe! Wowzas! So, today, I am going to duplicate all of the below pieces into a one piece charge pipe /Y pipe assembly. Ends up the fab work isn't done and this is the joy of R&D work (note: sarcasm). Screaming Eagle makes an intake for carb mounting that has a flange, I could wait for one of those to come in and make a flange for the charge pipe to fit, or make a one piece and ride today. I think I'll get busy.
http://www.muddyjeep.com/images/intakepieces.JPG
note the missing paint from the boost washout
http://www.muddyjeep.com/images/chargepipeleak.JPG

I also noted that with the air cleaner off I had some reversion issues, not much, but a noticeable mist. I am going to change the down pipe from a 2.5" to a 2.25" all the way down to the main tailpipe and then use a 2.5" tailpipe instead of the 3". That should help with the scavenge affect of the exhaust as well as provide more torque. )I hope :p I'll have it finished and running again today leak free and hopefully to the dyno again on Tuesday.
I went back and looked at Sam's pictures, I see he went from a huge pipe to a smaller one also. Am I on the right track Sam?:D
Its gonna be a cold but pretty day today, I gotta get busy so I can:tour

Hey don't worry about the leak, you'll get if figured out. When you do, it will be impressive to all those watching. I'll bet that whoever was watching you had a good impression. I know I don't have the know-how to do what you are doing, and neither do 99% of everybody else. Keep at it and let us know how's it going.

Hey don't worry about the leak, you'll get if figured out. When you do, it will be impressive to all those watching. I'll bet that whoever was watching you had a good impression. I know I don't have the know-how to do what you are doing, and neither do 99% of everybody else. Keep at it and let us know how's it going.
thanks for the kind words. I know what tis capable of doing, they don't, yet.

I'll get it right, 3rd time charm with the charge pipe:)

just curious about boost control, running internal wastegate, blowoff or any kind of boost bypass to recirculate boost during high boost situations?

Ah yes...the joys of fabrication. I'm both jealous that you're getting to do the project and glad it's YOU and NOT me at the same time! :D

Ah yes...the joys of fabrication. I'm both jealous that you're getting to do the project and glad it's YOU and NOT me at the same time! :D

My thoughts exactley:tour wait till the motor implodes and it looks like someone thru furniture thru a picture window.:frownthre

just curious about boost control, running internal wastegate, blowoff or any kind of boost bypass to recirculate boost during high boost situations?internal wastegate set at 8#, the exhaust flange I made has a huge relief in it that merges the WG burps with the main exhaust.

My thoughts exactley:tour wait till the motor implodes and it looks like someone thru furniture thru a picture window.:frownthre
hehehehehehhee, somebody has to be first, lets hope its not me:doh . If we all just sat by and watched the grass grow, who would have been innovative and came up with "Beer"?
Plus, its just damned fun when its boosted and I will get this figured out and make it a reliable source of power soon enough. 8# is proven to be nothing to these motors and also, its not there constantly. AND, I just gotta do it, that is all:D




:drinkbeer

ide like to see pics when its all done. sounds like itll be a monster. keep us posted on progress.

ide like to see pics when its all done. sounds like itll be a monster. keep us posted on progress.
tons of picts at www.muddyjeep.com/turbo_update.htm :smoke

>I also noted that with the air cleaner off I had some reversion issues, not much, but a noticeable mist. <

That's the cam overlap

>I am going to change the down pipe from a 2.5" to a 2.25" all the way down to the main tailpipe and then use a 2.5" tailpipe instead of the 3". That should help with the scavenge affect of the exhaust as well as provide more torque. )<

The turbo seperates the exhaust pulse from the final pipe. At the start of the final pipe, the point is to get any back pressure AWAY from the turbo. Back pressure will impede the flow. For once bigger is better and shorter too! Seem to remember (can't document) 22 1/2 inches for a final pipe length made somebody "best" power. But that was his motor/cams/turbo....

I run 2" on my 883 and 2 1/4" on the 88", FWIW.

>I hope I'll have it finished and running again today leak free and hopefully >to the dyno again on Tuesday.

I tried and cussed the stock intake for leaks. Gave up and made my own. 1 3/4" on a 2 1/2 radius". The execution of the lesson is left to the student.

BTW, the smoothest transition between compressor and head seems to be helpful.

>I went back and looked at Sam's pictures, I see he went from a huge pipe >to a smaller one also. Am I on the right track Sam?

Huh? Too many pics, but the Maxton pipe was a progression from 2 1/4 to 4.

Sam

hehehehehehhee, somebody has to be first, lets hope its not me:doh . If we all just sat by and watched the grass grow, who would have been innovative and came up with "Beer"?
Plus, its just damned fun when its boosted and I will get this figured out and make it a reliable source of power soon enough. 8# is proven to be nothing to these motors and also, its not there constantly. AND, I just gotta do it, that is all:D




:drinkbeer

I fully understand your reasoning, the stock top ends with there small valves springs will not take prolonged high RPM's before they start to float the valves and then hit the valve seal with the spring retainer. The stock valve springs are marginal at best and the stock valves do not have hard coated stems, so either will give problems if run hard. Upgrade the valve springs and set the upper RPM limit to a reasonable valve.

BTW- feel free to post results when you get things straightened out.

>I also noted that with the air cleaner off I had some reversion issues, not much, but a noticeable mist. <

That's the cam overlap

>I am going to change the down pipe from a 2.5" to a 2.25" all the way down to the main tailpipe and then use a 2.5" tailpipe instead of the 3". That should help with the scavenge affect of the exhaust as well as provide more torque. )<

The turbo seperates the exhaust pulse from the final pipe. At the start of the final pipe, the point is to get any back pressure AWAY from the turbo. Back pressure will impede the flow. For once bigger is better and shorter too! Seem to remember (can't document) 22 1/2 inches for a final pipe length made somebody "best" power. But that was his motor/cams/turbo....

I run 2" on my 883 and 2 1/4" on the 88", FWIW.

>I hope I'll have it finished and running again today leak free and hopefully >to the dyno again on Tuesday.

I tried and cussed the stock intake for leaks. Gave up and made my own. 1 3/4" on a 2 1/2 radius". The execution of the lesson is left to the student.

BTW, the smoothest transition between compressor and head seems to be helpful.

>I went back and looked at Sam's pictures, I see he went from a huge pipe >to a smaller one also. Am I on the right track Sam?

Huh? Too many pics, but the Maxton pipe was a progression from 2 1/4 to 4.

Sam

I know on my turbo car, the down pipe bigger is better, but I was thinking maybe the pulses are needed on the HD. Thanks for the tip, I guess I'll leave the pipe as is.

I fully understand your reasoning, the stock top ends with there small valves springs will not take prolonged high RPM's before they start to float the valves and then hit the valve seal with the spring retainer. The stock valve springs are marginal at best and the stock valves do not have hard coated stems, so either will give problems if run hard. Upgrade the valve springs and set the upper RPM limit to a reasonable valve.

BTW- feel free to post results when you get things straightened out.
I am only spinning it to 6.5k, was thinking of putting the stock ignition module back in for the 6k limit. I would like to try both of them on the dyno and see if the 5 degree retard of the SE module helps at all in a boosted state. I agree on the valve train abuse if you ride it hard, real world, when it holds the boost, this bike doesnt really need all the rpm's, it flys easily at low boost.

Oh yeah, what xllent01 said.

Don't play with the RPM's (rev limiter) until you get some springs to keep the valves out of the way of the pistons.

Oh yeah, what xllent01 said.

Don't play with the RPM's (rev limiter) until you get some springs to keep the valves out of the way of the pistons.ok, that does it, Im putting in the stocker ignition and will use it until further headwork comes along. <~~(Soon, very soon):)

tons of picts at www.muddyjeep.com/turbo_update.htm :smoke

looks really nice. is there any kind of enricher for full boost or can the carb just keep up on its own? what main jet are you running?
whats the a/f ratio under load?
i know im asking what may seem stupid but i am interested in turbo systems.

See my rant on H-D ignitions on the Sportster List.

High performance engines need a precisely timed spark.
Hall effect sensors by their nature are not precision devices.

With the addition of higher cylinder pressure and more fuel/air
to be burned, blowing out the candle can get messy.
(think Top Fuel, an extreme example)

Good luck and looking forward to see your progress. Yea 8 lbs.boost and that motor should run forever when you get everything ironed out. I new a guy back in the early 80's that ran 28 lbs of boost on a inline 4 IDBA dragbike and it held together really well considering all the hp it was making. Yea as far as the evo sportster motor has come 8 lbs of boost and you ought to be able to tour on it!

Good luck and looking forward to see your progress. Yea 8 lbs.boost and that motor should run forever when you get everything ironed out. I new guy back in the early 80's that ran 28 lbs of boost on a inline 4 IDBA dragbike and held together really well considering all the hp it was making. Yea as far as the evo sportster motor has come 8 lbs of boost and you ought to be able to tour on it!
I dont really fear it to much. 8# is a walk in the park for this motor. If it goes, then I guess I'll have to up the meager budget a smidgen for R&D;) the wife would be like:frownthre :censor :gun hahahhaha.
Seriously, this motor makes good power with boost, I just haven't been able to document it with a dyno:roflblack . My goal has always been 100/100 on pump gas with this bolt on (that would be taking a 70-75HP motor and adding 25 - 30hp, 1/3 its power, no problem:shhhh ), I'm gonna be back on the dyno again tuesday and will be ready this time. Really though, I'm gonna ride mine today and see if I got rid of the charge pipe blues:banana its cold (probably 40-50 w/o wind, w/it feels like its 30) but clear and beautiful today. :tour I hope the rest of yall can make it out too.:clap I already installed the original ignition module, crap, now I gotta go fight the stealer and have them reflash per the bulletin.

a WOT 4th gear run on the dyno

http://www.muddyjeep.com/Dyno%20pull.MPG

Kewl mpeg, but lets see the dyno sheet of that turboed monster.:clap

Texas Roadster

Hows it going so far? Are you making progress?

Ok I don't know much about turbo's but don't you have to have what they call an intercooler on an engine with a turbo? or is that for a supercharger?

Ok I don't know much about turbo's but don't you have to have what they call an intercooler on an engine with a turbo? or is that for a supercharger?
Anytime you compress air it heats up. The more you compress it, the more it heats up. Most turbo cars do run intercoolers, although I had a friend with an '89 Merkur XR4Ti, that ran 20+ psi and made good power without one. I had a '92 Eagle Talon TSi that came stock with a small i/c, and I never ran the stock i/c over 18psi. (Of course the pressure isn't the only thing that makes a difference, airflow capability, i.e. size of the turbo, has a lot to do with how much the air is heated as well.)
You don't HAVE to, although most turbo cars do. He's only running 8psi, so he's not heating up the air too much, and also, on something this small I think the extra charge piping and pressure loss in an intercooler may be equal to, or even more than the expected gains from adding an i/c (purely speculation). Another limitation is the amount of space, on cars you have all kinds of space infront of the motor, on top, beside, or even under the bumper to put a large intercooler, but it would be hard to mount a decent i/c on a motorcycle this small.

This is my guess as to why you're not running an intercooler anyhow, well that and it adds a lot of difficulty, especially when you're trying to get initial bugs worked out anyhow.

Also, with it being a pull thru carb(I've never dealt with turbo-carb combo's before, only fuel injection) I wonder if running an i/c would cause the fuel to cool, and settle out of the compressed air..

He's only running 8psi, so he's not heating up the air too much, and also, on something this small I think the extra charge piping and pressure loss in an intercooler may be equal to, or even more than the expected gains from adding an i/c (purely speculation).

This is my guess as to why you're not running an intercooler anyhow, well that and it adds a lot of difficulty, especially when you're trying to get initial bugs worked out anyhow.

Also, with it being a pull thru carb(I've never dealt with turbo-carb combo's before, only fuel injection) I wonder if running an i/c would cause the fuel to cool, and settle out of the compressed air..


you are correct, at 8# the heat isn't really a concern and to add an intercooler to a draw through setup would not work, it would fill up with fuel and go boom in a big way.
The progress is going good, I think :-)
the dyno pull proved to make the same HP as a stock bike, but I made it at less than 4k rpms:clap
The reason we couldnt really make any power above 4k is due to the timing and it needing to be retarded for the boost.
I bought an ignition set up, and this is where it gets to me.
I could have gotten the dynatech tc88 first,:doh but was talked into the new stuff on the market, a digital fully programmable module from Thunder-Heart.
It worked great, I tuned about 20 degrees of ignition retard at WOT and it made for a very smoky second gear burnout.
I havent had it on the dyno since the ignition change (installed on saturday) and now I find that I'm not happy with the TH ig., my speedo works sometimes, sometimes not, the tach works intermittently, the module is supposed to make the bike easier to start via not using the map sensor info and its just not so. I will be making a call to Zippers and TH tech line letting them know the stuff doesnt do what they said and is coming back for a refund. I also finally got a email back from dynatech and they will probably send me a tc88 set up for a decent price to test on the turbo mule.
The way it feels with the ignition quickly set up is that it makes crazy power up high and pulls like a mule on crack down low.
Yesterday, with it set up, I was ripping through the gears shifting at 3.5 -4 k rpms and it was amazing the pull it had! It was fun tearing my buddys bike up and not even having to rev high to do it.
The end result is, it hauls major bawls, I just need to work the ignition woes out and maybe the tc88 will be a happier choice.
As soon as I get it set up , I will be on the dyno the day after:D

looks really nice. is there any kind of enricher for full boost or can the carb just keep up on its own? what main jet are you running?
whats the a/f ratio under load?
i know im asking what may seem stupid but i am interested in turbo systems.
sorry didnt see this and answer
I am on a 48 low and 180 main with a n-65 shimmed and the afr's at WOT was a straight and steady 12 - 12.5, using the dyno sniffer, not the Innovative wideband installed on the bike. the bike wideband was reading a few points lower than the dyno, but close enough and who's to say which one was correct, both were showing a safe tune so we romped on it. I will probably end up with a 190 main when its all said and done and the new ignition is in to allow for a full pull making power

same 4th gear pull, just corrected the link to it. http://www.muddyjeep.com/Dynopull.MPG

sorry didnt see this and answer
I am on a 48 low and 180 main with a n-65 shimmed and the afr's at WOT was a straight and steady 12 - 12.5, using the dyno sniffer, not the Innovative wideband installed on the bike. the bike wideband was reading a
few points lower than the dyno, but close enough and who's to say which one was correct, both were showing a safe tune so we romped on it. I will probably end up with a 190 main when its all said and done and the new ignition is in to allow for a full pull making power

same 4th gear pull, just corrected the link to it. http://www.muddyjeep.com/Dynopull.MPG


I was kind of wondering what you were using to control the ignition. Are those the only two options you've found or the two most promising? I know I've heard about the TC88 before, but I've never heard of the other one.

I was also kind of wondering if you had a permanantly installed WB02 as well, what inovate unit did you get the LC-1 or the LM-1, or maybe they've released something else since I've last visited their site? I imagine the LC-1, b/c if I remember right it's smaller, the only disadvantage as I remember is no logging capability(but on a bike you don't have the room to store that bulky head unit and wiring would be ugly). I had the LM-1 in my car for awhile and really liked what it could do for me, and innovate is a good company from my experience. Have you checked out their user forum? There's some pretty good info and help available on there. Whichever it is that you use, what are your impressions?

Cory

I was kind of wondering what you were using to control the ignition. Are those the only two options you've found or the two most promising? I know I've heard about the TC88 before, but I've never heard of the other one.

I was also kind of wondering if you had a permanantly installed WB02 as well, what inovate unit did you get the LC-1 or the LM-1, or maybe they've released something else since I've last visited their site? I imagine the LC-1, b/c if I remember right it's smaller, the only disadvantage as I remember is no logging capability(but on a bike you don't have the room to store that bulky head unit and wiring would be ugly). I had the LM-1 in my car for awhile and really liked what it could do for me, and innovate is a good company from my experience. Have you checked out their user forum? There's some pretty good info and help available on there. Whichever it is that you use, what are your impressions?

Cory
I've got the lc1 and and digital display, it does have data logging ability. it works great, I like it because it is small and the ease of install is pretty brainless to, good product, kinda pricey, but good insurance and a test tool.

Anytime you compress air it heats up. The more you compress it, the more it heats up. Most turbo cars do run intercoolers, although I had a friend with an '89 Merkur XR4Ti, that ran 20+ psi and made good power without one. I had a '92 Eagle Talon TSi that came stock with a small i/c, and I never ran the stock i/c over 18psi. (Of course the pressure isn't the only thing that makes a difference, airflow capability, i.e. size of the turbo, has a lot to do with how much the air is heated as well.)
You don't HAVE to, although most turbo cars do. He's only running 8psi, so he's not heating up the air too much, and also, on something this small I think the extra charge piping and pressure loss in an intercooler may be equal to, or even more than the expected gains from adding an i/c (purely speculation). Another limitation is the amount of space, on cars you have all kinds of space infront of the motor, on top, beside, or even under the bumper to put a large intercooler, but it would be hard to mount a decent i/c on a motorcycle this small.

This is my guess as to why you're not running an intercooler anyhow, well that and it adds a lot of difficulty, especially when you're trying to get initial bugs worked out anyhow.

Also, with it being a pull thru carb(I've never dealt with turbo-carb combo's before, only fuel injection) I wonder if running an i/c would cause the fuel to cool, and settle out of the compressed air..

thanks for the response promiscuousman, taught me a lot more than I knew about turbo's. I like threads like this that teach me about other things that can be done to the sporty other than just the bolt on parts.

What ever happened to the turbo Sportster?

Any updates?

Yea, got all the bugs worked out? what'd it get on the dyno? I'm curious now and i need to know!!!