Call for V-Twin Boycott on ChopperWeb

[Moved On]

I just read thhis article on another site and figured I'd pass it on since it sounds like an honorable issue: http://www.chopperweb.net/vtwinboycott.html

Gazza

[phantom]

Gary,is there anything we can do as a group?Or just as individuals.

[Shu]

Very interesting and sad. I was always pleased with the prices and quantity and variety of parts when I browsed through the V-Twin catalog. I am sadened by the background of those parts now.

[XL883L]

yes dont buy from this catalog... that will work both as a group and as individuals. ive got the 05 catalog here at the house and used to look through it frequently. I have always questioned the quality of the parts as alot of the pics of chrome peices have either a green or a red tint to them. Please go with reputable suppliers and give the actual makers of the parts the support and $$$ they need. KEEP OUR JOBS HERE FOLKS!

[XL883L]

on a side note if we could talk Bert into sending in the forum web address for their supporting list it would also make our group voice heard.:banadanc

[Fork]

I will gladly join this boycott. Down with Taiwan Ted!!

[Moved On]

Gary,is there anything we can do as a group?Or just as individuals.I dunno??? I figured just posting would be a little involvement, never figured I'd start a movement :D

I am sadened by the background of those parts now.Yea, it sadened me too. I have one of their catalogs and like to look at it when I'm on the throne ruling my kingdom. They have a lot of different parts in their catalog. It kinda sucks to know more about how they're getting the designs.

Gazza

[Fork]

Yea, it sadened me too. I have one of their catalogs and like to look at it when I'm on the throne ruling my kingdom. They have a lot of different parts in their catalog. It kinda sucks to know more about how they're getting the designs.

Gazza

I did not realize that how they were getting their designs. Thats just makes the situation much worse for me , and I just had a warranty problem. Thanks for bringing this to our attention!!

[leo_frantic]

I would've brought this up awhile ago, but I thought it was common knowledge. I've been bashing V-Twin Mfg. for some time because of this issue. I actually feel better now ... I thought everyone knew, but was buying from him anyway to save a buck.

[whispanic]

Not a dime from me.


Adios

[Jt1200r]

that sucks im throwing my catalog away

[smoke]

Email's telling Taiwan Ted, Fred whatever that what he is doing sucks, have been sent.

I am also contemplating desecrating their catalog somehow and sending it back to them, first class.

[Casper]

Haven't bought anything from them yet, but I did get a catalog in anticpation thereof. Looks like it'll be lining a birdcage instead!

[txsporty]

I guess I'll use my Catalog as a Fire Starter!!!!:D

[vetthed]

is this the same V-twin that makes the magazine?

[Moved On]

V-Twin Manufacturing... not sure but don't think they're related to the magazine.

Gazza

[bplinson]

is this the same V-twin that makes the magazine?

Nope - totally different

[pquirk]

F Ted, buy American :) (when you can find it:( )

[883 custom]

I aint buying shit from the mofo!

[Folkie]

The ChopperWeb article says they don't have a web presence, but they do: www.vtwinmfg.com (http://www.vtwinmfg.com).

[Snuffy]

V-twin manufacturing only way to hurt them is in the wallet. So how do we do that by just what we are doing and by word of mouth.

[Folkie]

I've just posted links to the ChopperWeb article and this thread on the Harley-Davidson Riders Club of Great Britain forum. Hopefully that'll help.

[jimijams69]

this has been going on publicly for over a year

[merc]

that stinks
that is one vendor that needs to go into the 'don't buy from' list.

[Moved On]

I got one of their catalogs in the mail.... I wonder how much it costs to mail them.... the phone book is pretty heavey too... I wonder how many people in that phone book have V-Twin catalogs yet ;)

Gazza

[blueglide88]

Guess what? This has been going on in the manufacturing sector for a long time. Where I work, we design and build plastic injection molds. Our customers come to us with a product, and we sell them the tool to mold that product. A number of our customers have had their product copied, the molds built in China at the fraction of the cost, and sold on store shelves at less cost. One of our cutomers had a product of theirs copied so closely, that the Chinese even engineered in a defect that they had in their original design!

When this happens, it affects many more people than you realize. Take the seat in the example. A collaboration between two guys, there are many more involved than meet the eye. They bought the foam from somebody. They had the frame for the seat made at a foundry. The foundry made a pattern for the frame made by a patternmaker. The frame was polished by a polisher. The frame was then sent to have it chromed. So this simple seat not only involved the original two guys, but it involved three other companies as well. The foam company, the foundry, and the chrome plating company.


Buy American. There are many more people involved in a product than you realize.

[nail40]

it is alot easier said than done to buy american ,most of the parts you buy for your harley are not made in the usa, most are made in china or mexico,even the genuine harley parts from the dealer .

[atasty39]

Thanks for the info on V-Twin Manuf.

[Ralph]

it is alot easier said than done to buy american ,most of the parts you buy for your harley are not made in the usa, most are made in china or mexico,even the genuine harley parts from the dealer .

It is hard but we try to buy USA whenever we can. Heck, I bought the Sporty in part, perhaps in large part, b/c it's American.

The wife just bought a Bowflex which was delivered yesterday and we put it together today. Never gave it a thought. Assumed it was "Made in the USA." Not! :frownone Said on the box "Engineered in the USA; Assembled in China."

Damn. Who knew? :doh

Ralph
Georgetown, Texas

[Moved On]

it is alot easier said than done to buy american ,most of the parts you buy for your harley are not made in the usa, most are made in china or mexico,even the genuine harley parts from the dealer .I don;t think the real problem here is where the parts are made, it's more of an issue of ripping of designers with cheaper imitation pieces. Doesn't really matter where the parts are made, if he's stealing a design... he's a thief.

Gazza

[Paulie420]

Lol, sorry everyone - but I speak my mind. I am all about FREE ENTERPRISE, and the maximum profit and lowest price.

It's what I do in my buisness, CHINA is cheaper. Products are good.

I'll be ORDERING my V-Twin catalog as I didn't already have one...


If would have lost upwards of $100k last year if it wasn't for China.
Sorry... no boycott here.

[Desertfox]

Not a dime from me.


Adios


haven't gotten a dime from me. Probably never will. The catalog is impressive but the prices are NOT cheap. Found that I can get what I need from other scources, usually at a better price. Although I was impressed by the volume of stuff I was not by their prices. So for me the boycot is a non issue. I don't buy from them anyway.

[paris15]

Thanks for the heads-up.
My New Years resolution is to NOT buy anything Made In China (Taiwan, Hong Kong).

Hey Paulie- :frownthre

[xllent01]

Thanks for the heads-up.
My New Years resolution is to NOT buy anything Made In China (Taiwan, Hong Kong).

Hey Paulie- :frownthre

Good luck cause just about everything these days is made else where. Ever stop and get gas at a Citgo station? sure you have,
guess who owns Citgo nowadays. Not the USA no more, the very ones you keep sending your parts to get outsourced too.

BTW- you forgot to add Mexico to your list.:doh

[Paulie420]

Things outsourced are NOT always crap, by a long shot.

Look on the rear of (almost) any high end (or low end) stereo reciever...

dvd...
tivo...
My PORSCHE...


All very expensive, very quality products... made in Taiwan... China... Indonesia...

Whatever.

I get things as cheap as possible.

Period.

I can offer my customers a great break on price - or help Mr and Mrs Smith who live in the US and up my prices %30. BS.

I order from China.

:D I may have to have three container ships in advance but it keeps MY costs down... and my CUSTOMERS happy.

And I'm sure thats what VTwin is trying to do...

:D

A flip to every quarter people...

[Fork]

Things outsourced are NOT always crap, by a long shot.

Look on the rear of (almost) any high end (or low end) stereo reciever...

dvd...
tivo...
My PORSCHE...


All very expensive, very quality products... made in Taiwan... China... Indonesia...

Whatever.

I get things as cheap as possible.

Period.

I can offer my customers a great break on price - or help Mr and Mrs Smith who live in the US and up my prices %30. BS.

I order from China.

:D I may have to have three container ships in advance but it keeps MY costs down... and my CUSTOMERS happy.

And I'm sure thats what VTwin is trying to do...

:D

A flip to every quarter people...


I think that you are completely missing the point of this. The people have been proven to have taken other peoples ideas and selling them for there own profit.

As for your PORSCHE good for you..... :frownthre :frownthre

[Paulie420]

I think that you are completely missing the point of this. The people have been proven to have taken other peoples ideas and selling them for there own profit.

As for your PORSCHE good for you..... :frownthre :frownthre

I think your missing the point of my point.

I am glad that people offer products that are the same or close to others. It gives us more freedom to CHOOSE. If someone is blatently stealing a copyrighted trademarked, or patented product, then the owner should sue. If not, GREAT, I'm glad I can choose which quality level and which vendor to buy from.

And for what price.
Price drives a lot of my desicion on who to buy from... so, if I can get the same quality product for a bit cheaper, I call it GREAT.

I don't care who's profit I'm supporting - as long as its my POCKET that is breathing a little bit easier.

And as for the lame PORSCHE jab, I was simply stating that like many other GREAT products, the country on the door jam ISN'T the good ole U.S.... its damn Mexico...

And it still smoked some ass till I sold it. So what.


I just think a boycott of CHOICE is stupid...



Also, it's not the fault of the local vendor, I.e. V-Twin for copyright, patent, or trademark violations... its the distributor in China...

Lol, I support FREE ENTERPRISE of all kind. Very simply put.

[cia2a]

V-twin= F U C M
as far as I am concerned

[AZbiker]

I think your missing the point of my point.

I am glad that people offer products that are the same or close to others. It gives us more freedom to CHOOSE. If someone is blatently stealing a copyrighted trademarked, or patented product, then the owner should sue. If not, GREAT, I'm glad I can choose which quality level and which vendor to buy from.

And for what price.
Price drives a lot of my desicion on who to buy from... so, if I can get the same quality product for a bit cheaper, I call it GREAT.

I don't care who's profit I'm supporting - as long as its my POCKET that is breathing a little bit easier.

And as for the lame PORSCHE jab, I was simply stating that like many other GREAT products, the country on the door jam ISN'T the good ole U.S.... its damn Mexico...

And it still smoked some ass till I sold it. So what.


I just think a boycott of CHOICE is stupid...



Also, it's not the fault of the local vendor, I.e. V-Twin for copyright, patent, or trademark violations... its the distributor in China...

Lol, I support FREE ENTERPRISE of all kind. Very simply put.

If the vendor is knowingly carrying products that infringe on patents, or even ENCOURAGING the overseas manufacturer to copy domestic designs, then that person is a scumbag, PERIOD.

Taiwan Ted has been in bed with these ripoff artists for a LONG time.

The Chinese are notorious for ignoring patent/trademark law.

A lot of these shops are mom & pop operations, and they don't have the money to file an international lawsuit.

You ever buy your wife any "Swap Meet Louie?"

How 'bout a $10 Rolex?

If so, maybe you should change your name to Swap Meet Paulie. :roflblack

[Moved On]

Lol, sorry everyone - but I speak my mind. I am all about FREE ENTERPRISE, and the maximum profit and lowest price.

It's what I do in my buisness, CHINA is cheaper. Products are good.

I'll be ORDERING my V-Twin catalog as I didn't already have one...

If would have lost upwards of $100k last year if it wasn't for China.
Sorry... no boycott here.Remind me not to ride with you. That type of selfishness is why the US will be a third world nation economically soon. Nothing like F^&#ing your country up the arse for your own self profit.

Anyway your still missing the point, it isn't about where the products are made, it's about whom they designs were stolen from.

Gazza

[Paulie420]

Wah wah.

If the company is breaking laws than the people losing money should take the proper actions to secure they're inventions... If they're too back alley to do so then let the competition thrive.

Have your point, listen to mine, then beat it. Thats all. And I'm sure my country won't fail because we go for the best value - whether here or overseas... but I know buisness will thrive. And for that I have my opinions.

I won't support a boycott that hurts a buisness owner who in my eyes is doing nothing wrong...

Guess he's not a supporter here. Lol.

And btw - Don't ride with me.

[Fork]

If the company is breaking laws than the people losing money should take the proper actions to secure they're inventions... If they're too back alley to do so then let the competition thrive.

Point listened to and point taken

But are you saying that competition equals theft? I thought competition meant making a better product at better prices and better customer service?

I still buy from my local shop but have asked them not to sell me anything from V-Twin at all. So that way they are not hurt.

[Paulie420]

Point listened to and point taken

But are you saying that competition equals theft? I thought competition meant making a better product at better prices and better customer service?

I still buy from my local shop but have asked them not to sell me anything from V-Twin at all. So that way they are not hurt.

Thats one form of competition. Another completely different form of competition is making an equal part, with slightly better pricing and absolutely no customer support... to keep costs down.

Another is to make a product better and charge the same, more, or less.

Another is to make exactly the same product at a slight decrease with the same customer service.

The way I would go is whatever had the best BOTTOM LINE to me, the vendor/distributor. And I bet thats what VTwin does... and I think its great. Who the hell wants to not make MONEY these days?


How many companys now a days sell:

Surround Sound
Anti Lock Brakes
Digital Cameras
Window Wipers
Calculators
Cups
Refridgerators
Turn Signals... Etc... you get it...


People its all tit for tat.

I just don't buy that people with patents and copyrights are getting screwed... I think people who make parts and don't protect them get... well, what they deserve. COMPETITION.

I run an audio/video company... no matter WHAT I sell, the other 4 or 5 companies in Sacramento sell the SAME thing... with the SAME deals... it's American.

America.

And I embrace it.

And we shouldn't try to hurt it... whether a few old skoolers think its BS or not its what makes America THRIVE.

IMO, that is... I've never been saying F U, I won't ride with anyone with another outlook (HA... nice one Gazza.)... just hope a FORUM that I SUPPORT with MONEY doesn't support a boycott I don't believe in...

I am all about getting the info out there, for anyone to make their own opinions on.... I just HOPEHOPEHOPE there never is a front page like chopperweb.com that actually supports this BS.

Let competetion and free enterprise THRIVE or lets go back to U.S.S.R..


Anyone SEE my point? Because I *SEE* yours... I just don't agree with it nor do I want to support it.

[kiwinz]

Just take a close look at your sportys,you will find( made in japan )in more places than you would think.I dont mind the chinese copying a product as long as they make it better,and cheaper.

[Fork]

I give up :doh :doh :doh :doh

[klown]

This happens in manufacturing all the time. Do you guys really think Drag specialties and Custom Chrome are selling all original designs? They're not, BTW most of the chrome doo dad's are made off shore anyways, even alot of the official HD stuff. I've never bought from them, but I've bought from similar (Drag specialties, Custom chrome etc...) They all do it. :smoke

[klown]

This is a capitalistic country, everybody wants to make a buck. What's so funny is you guys think these are the only people doing it. Most of all the shit in this world is copied from something else. :smoke

[Moved On]

Well I don't know enough about the intellectual property ownership issues of the technologies Paulie listed, but for two:

Surround Sound - No one owns the intellectual property there. The 5.1 standard is something the the industry came up with so it's an open standard that everyone is granted the right to use. Somewaht related though is dolby noise reduction. That's owned by Dolby and everyone that uses that technology pays a license fee to Dolbly to use it. Same thing goes with many of the compression technologies used for sound and video.

Digital Photography - The memory sticks or chips all use MS-DOS file formats and every manufacturer pays Microsoft a license fee of 50 cents per device to use the technology.

I have no problem with folks licensing IP from the owner and making cheap knockoffs. I also have no problem with the knockoffs being made in China. The real reason for this movement starting over on the other website is because they are stealing well known designers intellectual property. Yea they could go to court, and one small vendor won his attempt, but if it costs more in lawyers fees than the IP owner can afford, then V-Twin knows they can get away with it. That's wrong, they should be paying a license fee to use someone elses designs... that is standard practice in industry.

As far as my riding comment goes... It was really just a comment on your ethics. I'd most likely never be in a position to ride with you anyway... but as a fellow biker I figured you'd realize that it was a metaphor for my feeling on your ethics Paulie. As in... why would anyone ride with someone they can't trust.

Gazza

[Paulie420]

Well I don't know enough about the intellectual property ownership issues of the technologies Paulie listed, but for two:

Surround Sound - No one owns the intellectual property there. The 5.1 standard is something the the industry came up with so it's an open standard that everyone is granted the right to use. Somewaht related though is dolby noise reduction. That's owned by Dolby and everyone that uses that technology pays a license fee to Dolbly to use it. Same thing goes with many of the compression technologies used for sound and video.

Digital Photography - The memory sticks or chips all use MS-DOS file formats and every manufacturer pays Microsoft a license fee of 50 cents per device to use the technology.

I have no problem with folks licensing IP from the owner and making cheap knockoffs. I also have no problem with the knockoffs being made in China. The real reason for this movement starting over on the other website is because they are stealing well known designers intellectual property. Yea they could go to court, and one small vendor won his attempt, but if it costs more in lawyers fees than the IP owner can afford, then V-Twin knows they can get away with it. That's wrong, they should be paying a license fee to use someone elses designs... that is standard practice in industry.

As far as my riding comment goes... It was really just a comment on your ethics. I'd most likely never be in a position to ride with you anyway... but as a fellow biker I figured you'd realize that it was a metaphor for my feeling on your ethics Paulie. As in... why would anyone ride with someone they can't trust.

Gazza

Intellectual property?? BS. You must get a Patent. A trademark. A copyright. Thats what the people who have WON cases had. I beg to bet the ones that aren't doing this, and depending on a lame boycott DO NOT have these. And therefore, I still say - fair game.

You haven't been able to budge me, nor I you... so great... I'll now only respond if theres a change or something that hasn't been said - as I've been repeating what I've said again and again... pretty lame.

You know my stance. I know yours. Good luck with... all that.

[Moved On]

Here's a picture of one of the products in question from the inventors website (http://www.crimescenechoppers.com/hardAss.html). It clearly says "patent pending" on the bottom. I think that is as good as a patent until the decision is made by the patent office (but IANAL).

http://www.crimescenechoppers.com/hardass.jpg

Gazza

[phantom]

Pauli,How do you sleep at night,are you restless.Do you wake up in a bad mood.Maybe you miss your Porsche,or maybe it is because you feel gulilty for screwing over the little guy.But if you sleep like a baby,well then I guess you enjoy screwing over the little guy.Don't come to NY you will be riding alone.Gotta trust the people your with.

[jwb47]

when there are no more customers to buy the knock off parts or stereos designer jeans or what ever because everybody is working for minimum wage do to out sourcing and importers exploiting slave labor maybe they can eat there damn porsches and gucci shoes

[grizz420]

has anybody looked at the stuff on the dealers shelves lately.....most if not all says made in tiawan makes me soooooo mad

[Paulie420]

Pauli,How do you sleep at night

Comfortably - on a down comforter made in the Republic of Indonesia...

[skratch]

And I'm sure thats what VTwin is trying to do...

:D

A flip to every quarter people...

no, thats not exactly right. they are having cheap copies made of quality parts and then selling them at high profit. yes, outsourcing is here to stay, its a fact. no youre not gonna be able to just buy strictly american. no way to do that. but you don't have to support someone who is making (almost) exact copies of someone elses designs. what kind of crap is that? let someone else do all the legwork, copy the design, and then slightly undercut them. if thats the american way to do business, then i'm ashamed.

[pquirk]

... if thats the american way to do business, then i'm ashamed.No worries skratch, that's NOT the American way, it's the Chinese way :laugh . F:censor ck Ted and anyone else sleezy enough to think like him. It's not about money all the time, it's about standing on principle. The slaveowners said "that's just business" too. My .02 :) .

[wowee1]

Damn, those cheap highway pegs for the 04 and up Sporties that Iron City Cycles sells and everyone has talked up on here are from V-Twin Mfg.....Do I buy these or the HD ones that don't include the pegs for almost twice the price????:(

From the Iron City website:

Part Number: 27-1728

Distributor: V-Twin Mfg

Description: Adjustable Hi-Way Peg Kit.

Kit includes right and left chrome supports and pegs. Pegs can be adjusted into 3 different positions. Fits 04-up XL.

Price: $92.15 Discount Price: $82.95

[johnnysquire]

Here's a picture of one of the products in question from the inventors website (http://www.crimescenechoppers.com/hardAss.html). It clearly says "patent pending" on the bottom. I think that is as good as a patent until the decision is made by the patent office (but IANAL).


"Patent pending" doesn't mean much. There's no guarantee any patent will ever issue. If a patent does issue, the knockoff market will abruptly end, because that's when the patent owner can start to sue people.

I suspect they're looking at both design patents (on the non-functional, ornamental elements) on the design of the seat and maybe utility patents on the a metal seat with padded leather inserts. Nothing published at the PTO at present though (at least by the guys named on the Choppers site).